This is a long shot but .... anyone a British Citizen NOT born in the UK and wanting to apply for citizenship of ANOTHER country?

[ghosty]

Sorry for long title but I need some help and if anyone out there has any experience of this I would be grateful:

Background: I was born in South Africa of British parents (Dad Brit by birth, Mum became Brit when SA became independent)
I have always had a British passport on which it states I am a British Citizen despite never having grown up in the UK but lived for 14 years of my adult life in the UK.

Anyway ... for very complicated reasons I am wanting to apply for my NZ citizenship - wasn't planning to but I have to.

On the form it says that I have to supply my Certificate of Citizenship if I was born in a country OTHER than the one of my citizenship. My passport isn't good enough apparently.

I don't have such a document. Has anyone ever had to do this and how do I go about getting such a certificate. My British citizenship is not in doubt .... but where is the document?

Anyone???

Cheers ...

Ghosty, don't think it is a problem, call them. I was born in Ghana to British parents. My birth was registered with the British Consulate in Accra. That's what I used for NZ citizenship. Dd got it by descent although born in Germany, no problem at all, in fact they were really helpful.

Like science teacher said, our children don't automatically get British citizenship unless they're born in the UK (which I didn't know). The German govt automatically gave dd German citizenship so I got her a German passport and left it at that. The British Embassy told me I'd have to apply for her to get a British passport via the Home Office. You need proof of I think 3 years consecutive residency in the UK but I couldn't be bothered with it. I am hoping she can get UK citizenship if we go back but as long as she has an EU passport, I'm not too fussed.

SSandy,

Foreign born children are British citizens at birth if they are born to a British citizen otherwise than by descent, but they would then be citizens by descent and would not be able to pass it on to their foreign born children.

The system is designed to prevent people with no real connection to the UK becoming citizens.

I'm curious as to how your DD acquired citizenship at birth given that you are a citizen by descent (although, that's an assumption - if your parents where in the forces, or working for the British govt in Ghana, then they would have considered that you were born on UK soil; further thoughts is that Ghana may have still been a colony when you were born) :).

OK, I've reread your post and your DD is not a British citizen yet. If you demonstrate strong ties to the UK by moving here, you can register her as a British citizen - which you obviously already know.

Blimey ... have gone crosseyed reading these posts ....
I am so glad we are not the only family with complicated citizenship issues ...

This is us:

DH - British Citizen by birth (and his dad is British) AND NZ citizen by descent (through his mother.

Me - British Citizen by descent - born in SA with SA birth certificate but Dad Brit Citizen by birth and Mum British Citizen by grant.

DS - British Citizen by birth. NZ resident sponsored by his father (DH NZ citizen) but can't claim NZ citizenship through DH as DH is only an NZ citizen by descent (can only claim through one generation)

DD - NZ citizen by birth. British Citizen by descent claimed through DH because he was born in the UK but couldn't claim it through me as I wasn't born in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is so bloody complicated it does my head in and now I wish I was born, grew up, got married and died in one town ANYWHERE!!!

Threebob .... DH's boss went to Aus and came back for his citizenship ceremony ....

BUT there is a big reason WHY we can't do this:

When applying to be an NZ citizen you have to state an intent to reside in NZ. If DH was a Citizen by Birth or Grant we, DS and I, would be exempt this clause .... BUT as DH is an NZ citizen by descent we are NOT!
I have been told that if we go overseas to live while our application is being processed it will be stopped despite the fact that our long term goal is to end up in NZ and we own a house here and won't be selling it and DH works for an NZ company and could well come back in 2 - 3 years as GM.

If it is stopped then when we come back we will have to requalify for citizenship (3 or 5 years) all over again!!!!

So ... the plan is: DH will take the job ... and DS, DD and I will stay behind until the citizenship comes through ....

What really really pisses me off is that my friend who is a British Citizen with Australian residency is allowed to live in NZ with no questions asked ....

I need a lie down after writing all that ...

Re. my certificate of citizenship I know I don't have one and my parents did not register my birth with any consulate when I was born. I have copies of my mother's first passport and her passport that granted her Brit Citshp in 1983 when the rules about right to abode and citizenship changed.
Page 5 of my passport says British Citizen ...
So, when they ask for the documents I will send them not only my passport but my parents' birth certificates, copies of my mother's passports AND their marriage certificate AND my birth certificate .... that should sort it!

PS ... btw ... if we go to Aus as mere NZ residents we will have to pay overseas school fees for DS

It sounds a nightmare Ghosty - I am now tempted to get my citizenship sorted out - even though I never plan to live in Aus. you just don't know do you?

Ds would be okay at least as he was born here. I'm sure he will spend 3 years in the UK when he's older and can get his proper non by descent citizenship.

Since I work in the British Embassy (not in NZ or Aus but in Brazil) I would suggest the best thing to do would be to contact the British Consululate (not Embassy) in NZ and explain the situation. If this citizenship certificate is not available/doesn't exist you can ask them to write a letter on your behalf, stamping it with the official stamp. This should be good enough for the NZ authorities. You will have to pay a fee for this service but possibly not too much (about £30, just a guess)

Albert, thank you sooo much ...

3bob ... def. recommend getting your citizenship sorted ...

I just rang the British High Commission in New Zealand ($2.45 per minute ) and they said I would have to contact the British High Commission in South Africa for such a document

Could this be ANYMORE complicated?????

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

PMSL

Would mine be easier? I'm not doing it if it isn't.

How much is it, without all the messing around?

Ghosty, huge sympathy. I thought you might have to get something through the S.A. side. I have a similar situation as I mentioned below with DS1. I wrote to Kenya, they answered months later asking for various forms and money to provide the paper I need. At this point (about 10 years ago) i sort of gave up as Greece became a full EU member, but do regret it.

This thread has now prompted me to start the process up again, so thanks for jogging me into action.

Good luck with getting your papers sorted out!

I was born in Rhodesia - which no longer exists - and at one point held three passports, One citizen and two subject. My father was born in South Africa, mother Ireland.

I became a Brit citizen by default - Thatcher changed a law and I went from subject to citizen overnight. I have/had no certificate of nationality.

I am umming and ahhing about applying for French citizenship, but as my id card here already says "Place of Birth, Harare, Great Britain".

Wishing you good luck....

Rereading - that must have been the 1983 change that you mentioned. Thanks to Maggie I am now able to live in France.

ggg you've just reminded me....DS1 once got issued a greek passport that said

place of birth: Nairobi, Nigeria

I think on the application form we may have only written Nairobi and the person issuing the passport guessed as to which country it was!!!

Sorry you're having all this hassle ghosty. We are going through a nightmare with my godson - born in Zimbabwe to a Zambian mother and father born in Zambia to British parents. The poor child hasn't even got a birth certificate as neither Zambia or Zimbabwe would issue one. Try getting anything without a birth certificate!
His younger brother born to same parents 4 years later in Watford is automatically British - seems crazy to me.

Couldn't you get sorted out with working visas, or would that bugger up the school thing?

Uh-oh, maybe I should have registered dd's birth at the British Embassy here in Berlin? Is there much point though these days? Can I do it now, nearly 6 years later?

I paid for about 15 international birth certificates at the time, thinking that would cover any eventuality but maybe it doesn't? Maybe I should apply for British citizenship for her via the Home Office...

I do find it strange, dd having a German passport. It always strikes me as odd when I fill her nationality out in a form. Apart from living here when she was born, we don't have any connection to the country at all. Should be thankful that the German govt changed the citizenship laws just before dd was born though, otherwise I could have had trouble getting her any passport at all! Wish I'd checked and given birth in the UK though, to save the hassle..

The working visa will bugger up the school thing unfortunately and also we really WANT DS to have his NZ citizenship (which won't be an issue) and I want us all to have the same passports!

The citizenship cost isn't too bad really ... about $450 for me and $250 for DS which is cheaper than the residency was after all the medicals etc ...

That's an awful lot of $20 ozzie tourist visas for me though!

blimey this is complicated!

my mother has been living in the UK since 1963 and the rest of us are dual nationality (Nz/UK). For the last 10 years my parents have lived 6 months in NZ and 6 in the UK. They're moving back to NZ for good this year, and thought they would get my mother's British citizenship sorted first. Until they discovered that she'd still need to stay in the country for a full year to qualify. They couldn't face another UK winter so they're not bothering and 40 odds years of living in London will be but a dream....

3Bob ... $20???? I have to pay $25 here for my Aussie visas ....

Arfy ... the bureaucracy is mad isn't it?

Right ... I sent an email to the British Consulate in Cape Town and got this response in double quick time ...

Dear ghosty (actually she put my real name in

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately we do not issue 'Certificates of Citizenship'. I can only presume the New Zealand authorities would need such a document to verify your citizenship to South Africa in the understanding you were born and lived here, only attaining British citizenship by parental descent.

I suggest you contact the South African Department of Home Affairs. Their Cape Town details are as follows: Blah Blah Blah

Hope this helps.

Kind regards
Mrs British Consulate Woman (actually she put her real name in)

OH FFS!!! I don't WANT any certificate verifying my South African citizenship .... I WANT MY NZ CITIZENSHIP AND I WANT IT NOW

"MY WANT IT NOW !!!!!!!!!!"

Sorry, am more than a bit pissed Where is my wine glass???

But it was nice of the nice lady to send the nice email so quickly wasn't it?

Have you spoken to someone at the NZ immigration dept? You can ask them what you do if you don't have, and can't get, a certificate of citizenship.