General advice on moving to Le Vesinet, Paris?

[SarahTwin]

My husband has been offered a secondment for three to five years and its an opportunity we can't turn down. We have been over for a three day trip and found a great house in le vesinet and chosen the malherbe international school for our twin daughters who have just turned 2. (They are in nursery in the uk and love it so we were keen to keep them in some form of nursery education). I will be giving up my job as a lawyer and will ideally take the opportunity to retrain in something I enjoy more than law. Not sure what though.

We move in 6weeks and the nerves are kicking in big time. We don't know anyone in France or speak french yet but are really trying to learn. Is le vesinet the right place to live? Are there lots of ex pats there? I've read mixed opinions on the school and don't know if we should be thinking of the British school of Paris instead? (Luckily the company are paying so fees are nit an issue) or even a maternelle? Are there toddler groups around? Soft play areas?

How easy is it to lease a car? Or should we bring my car over first of all to get us started?

Sorry loads of questions but any general help will be really appreciated. Thanks

I'm an expat and I live in le vesinet

I'm currently just about to do the school run..dd 3 is going to the forest international and it's fabulous!

The area is stunning and the parks are amazing. Very difficult if you don't speak French but I'm sure that would be the same as anywhere in France.

It wasn't you who came to view our house yesterday was it

Ill be back this evening so ask any questions and ill try my best to help

Hi Sarah, you'll love living there -- you have seen how beautiful it is already. You will meet loads of parents at Malherbe and it's an OK place to start your kids down the bilingual route (but when all is said and done, it is not a great school, though some parents are perfectly happy with it).

Generally speaking, with private schools, watch out for those that are privately owned (by people who have little background in education) and run as lucrative businesses with no board of governors and no parent input at all. Sadly there are quite a few!

It would be a pity not to capitalise on the language exposure for your girls, and the only trouble with BSP is that they would not learn French there. After three to five years your daughters will have a great foothold in French if they are immersed as much as possible, as I am sure you have worked out. Forest is very nice but same trouble as BSP, less French exposure, plus it's a bit short on space and facilities (which it makes up for in other ways -- mostly by being a very caring place where kids enjoy learning).

I would lease a car rather than bring one over, as you would have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get yours "homologuée" and then re-registered in France. It's a PITA.

I'll let other Vesinet residents tell you more about amenities for the little ones!

Just a side question here. What did the British School of Paris do with their old primary school site? Did it get sold and converted or did it ever get taken over by another private school?

Thanks for your replies barbie1 and unobtanium.
Barbie1- it wasn't us that viewed your house yesterday :) we came over just before Easter for a whistle stop tour. I must have caught the head teacher on a good day but too be honest we didn't have much time at the school to look round but I did get a good feel for it. Is the forest school an easy drive? The fees look really similar so that's not an issue. I was hoping to meet other English speaking mums at whatever school the girls go to and just hope they are friendly :) have u found it easy to settle in or has it taken a while? I loved the feel of the area but got the impression we would need to learn French fast!
Unobtanium- thanks for your comments about the schools. I've been completely torn about the schools as I would lo e the girls to be fluent in French. My main concern is that if we only stay for three years and go back to the uk that the girls will be behind on their reading and writing. In front in terms of speaking a language though. Also I've been told they have to be potty trained before they start and my two are some way away from that. The relocation agent only suggest the BSP and the one in le vesinet so I wasn't aware of the forest international. I've tried to do loads of research on line but I'm still working at the moment so don't have much time. What is the problem with the malherbe school exactly? They told me they follow the British curriculum? Is that not true?

Le Vesinet is at the heart of expat territory so you'll have no trouble meeting other mums there, I lived there for three years, with very limited French, and found I could get by without any problems.
If you are going to be there for possibly 5 years I would suggest you possibly reconsider Malherbe, lots of children left Malherbe at around 4/5 to come to the BSP as their parents were so unhappy. I don't have any personal experience of the Forest School but did hear lots of positive comments about it. Whichever school you do choose I'm sure you and your twins will settle very quickly as the expat community is very welcoming in that area.
ReluctantMover - the last rumor that I heard was that the old BSP site had been sold to developers who planned to turn it into luxury apartments but no work has started as far as I know!

Hi Sarah, unfortunately we are due to move in June but if you arrive before I would be more than happy to meet and help you with a few bits. I can also introduce you to a lovely English lady who has a dd at the school your children will be going too.

Forest is 12 mins away on a good day and 20 mins on a bad run. Dd has learnt french in a relaxed way. I wasn't too bothered with her learning it to be honest as we are only here a year.

I speak zero french and its bloody tough. Day to day is ok, the supermarkets are easy to manage and there are a fair few expats in the area so most locals are used to us

I won't lie, it's been a hard year. Mainly because I was reluctant to leave Dubai to move here and also I moved 8 weeks after giving birth to ds.

There are soft plays in the area, and a few baby classes but most stuff tends to be in french, even my gym classes are in French.

Sorry one more question- at what age can children start at BSP? Are the fees crazily high? Also is it a fairly easy commute from le vesinet?

Very easy commute to BSP from LeVesinet, walkable from a large part of it.
Some children spend 2 years in the BSP nursery so they must be starting the year they turn 3. The fees are more expensive than other international options I think but you'd have to check the website for the latest fees, also you have the option of part or full-time in nursery so obviously that affects the final cost. The BSP have spent a lot of money and made a huge effort to upgrade their Early Years dept over the last 3 years so it's definitely worth a look.

Barbie1- that would be fantastic to meet up, thank you. We are hoping to leave the uk around the 20th May so fingers crossed we can meet before u go. Are u going back to the uk?
I can only imagine how hard it was moving with a newborn. Plus dubai must of been amazing. ive been there on holiday and loved it. I'm dreading losing the family support I have in the uk and just hoping I can make some good friends to help me settle in. I know my husband will be working his socks off and no doubt will be working long hours :(

We should be here for at least a month so plenty of time to introduce you to others and show you where most expats spend their days with the kids!

I'm on fb if you want to look at some pictures of the place or to message me. Alternatively please feel free to pm me on here

By the way not heading to uk, heading To South Korea if war doesn't start

Notmorefootball- I know my husbands colleagues send their children to the BSP so maybe we will send the girls there when they turn three or four. Such a shame they can't start at two or I'd just send them there straight away. I've just checked the website and the fees for nursery are actually cheaper than forest and malherbe! I can't get over the maintenance fees they all seem to charge!

There are some mother / toddler groups that use the refectory and spare rooms in the BSP's Early Years dept so that's another place you can go to meet up with local mums. No school is perfect but my DS spent three years in the BSP lower school and we were really pleased with the overall experience, we left Paris last year but I really miss all my lovely friends there - you'll have a fabulous few years!!

Another way to meet people (particularly if you don't speak French!) is to join message www.messageparis.org

It's not free to join but they have any online forum where you can post any questions you have about life in France (or child-raising in general) and they organise meet-ups, toddler groups, etc. locally.

Le Vesinet is lovely: I lived there for a while a few years ago before moving over the river. I have lived around this area for many years now (as has unobtainium, I believe) so feel free to post back with any questions when you arrive!

I'm afraid I know nothing about the schools (although I have also heard good things about Forest). My kids are in French school. I am going to be working in the nursery at BSP but don't start for another couple of weeks

I forgot about messageparis! It really is great and you will get loads of support and advice there. You won't get the low-down on schools though -- parents will say only positive things in response to a qn, or not reply at all.

Good Schools Guide covers Paris -- it will give you a very comprehensive picture of the different options for anglophone expats in this area plus, I think, very detailed reports (mentioning any niggles) on all the best schools. That will surely include BSP and Forest as they only have happy parents.

Malherbe parents are divided. It's privately owned and profit-making, which from bitter experience I would always avoid, but that's mostly because in the later years you can get serious problems -- if I were staying for a limited period I would "take a view" on the benefits of learning French properly against any drawbacks with Malherbe (facilities not what you might expect from a fee-paying school, a certain feeling that parents are not listened to...). The head would like to make investments but is probably reined in by the owner who has her beady eyes on the bottom line. There is at least a parents' association but it has not real input other than organising social events... you cannot for example go to them with a grievance and expect results unless it happens to suit the school.

On the other hand don't assume your girls will be behind on reading and writing in English after three years at Malherbe. The bilingual schools pack a lot into their programmes and usually set a lot of homework -- which is where you will come in!

If your worries about bilingual in general or Malherbe in particular override the advantage of learning French, then of course BSP or Forest are your best choices. Forest is very small, very personal, very encouraging and really looks after everyone. They love nature and use the forest across the road as an extension of their classrooms. BSP has fantastic facilities, extra curricular and sports. Relationship with the parent body is great, it is very structured in its approach to everything (pastoral care, nurses, tutors, communication, PTA etc) and you will really feel like you have joined a top fee-paying school in the UK.

Don't stress it too much, and good luck! Any other qns would be happy to have a stab at...

Thanks for your responses it's been really helpful although I feel more confused than ever now lol. I know from what everyone has said about le vesinet that we've chosen the right area to live but somehow I need to make the right decision about the school. As any parent on here we all want the best for our children and I hate the thought that they might not enjoy malherbe. I think I will try to go back for another visit and look round forest and BSP. Lets just hope they have spaces for my terrible two!

Good morning Sarah,
I would perhaps call up forest and speak ask to speak to Julie, she might tell you that they have no space and therefore part of your dilemma solved.

Does no-one put their children into local maternelles in le
vésinet? Where we live increasingly employees on expat packages do not get funding for under 6s which means increasingly children under 6 enter the local school system and end up staying there often too.

We get funding from the age of three. Due to being here only a year and dd being only 2 when we arrived the international school had a much more 'British nursery' feel about it.

Dd doesn't need to be in any kind of education for a while yet but expat life is tough and to be honest it gave me a bit of a break with the newborn

Most expats are using international schools as opposed to the local ones, I presumed it was just the done thing?

@Reluctantmover, if OP's kids are only just turned two then she will not be able to put them into maternelle for another year, and if the Crèche / halte-garderie is as oversubscribed as they are in most of the areas around here she's unlikely to get a slot.

Plenty of expats put their kids into French maternelle but from what OP is saying, waiting a year for that isn't really what she wants.

What happens near us is that increasingly people choose a local school for the under 6s, some stay after the age of 6, either because the parents do not get funding for English schools or because the parents are happy with the local system, or those who do get funding for English schools or have a spare 20k per year then transfer to the English schools. For children aged 2 and possibly not leaving until they are 7, I'd seriously consider French, especially if you can find a local maternelle where there is a community of children of many nationalities, including English speaking. Choosing a school in a different language that your home language is very dependent on parental attitude, children's personality, plus openness of the school and I'd say a positive parental attitude is absolutely essential. It opens up not just another language, it opens up the ability to join in local activities outside school, friendships with children who will be remaining in France.

Are there no sous contrat schools in Le Vésinet/Chatou which have TPS classes for the under 3s? Like Ecole Perceval which has a welcome page in English?

It's great you know of concerns about schools like Malherbe which are hors contrat and can basically do what they like. But I presume due to the fact that Malherbe is open with children that most of the parents must be happy there, otherwise they would have found other schools? Maybe some parents who are members or Message with children there could give a current insider's view. No school is perfect I think, some parents must at least be able to separate themselves and be as objective as possible about their children's school and tell you the good and the bad!

Sorry, missed an earlier qn. Malherbe follow what they call the "British National Curriculum", "French pedagogic directives" and "American guidelines"... they basically hedge their bets for expat kids (US/UK). In pedagogical approach they are quite montessori, and I think CM1/CM2 are combined classes.

Re whether most parents are happy at Malherbe. That may be so, but what percentage are happy? If 51%, then that's not good enough. I'm not saying that's the case at Malherbe, it's an extreme example and probably applies to another school I know well, not Malherbe. With Malherbe you get quite a few happy parents but also some grumbles.

Expat parents in the Paris area cannot move their children out of a school very easily so things have to be quite dire for them to begin voting with their feet. The reasons it takes a lot for them to move their kids a) the nearest alternative may be too far away (international/bilingual schools are scattered) and b) their next international move may be on the horizon and they do not want to move their kids twice in quick succession.

Thus the fact that a school has bums on seats does not make it a good choice at all.

So it pays to really listen to what is being said about the schools (although it may drive you potty taking everyone's opinions into consideration...). You won't get frank feedback on messageparis as they are very polite (I think posts that are not polite are quickly moderated).

Your best bet, SarahTwin, would be to get onto messageparis and just post asking to speak to a Malherbe parent. They will be more open over the phone and will hopefully give you a very good picture, if you are still trying to decide. Failing that, I may still have a contact (last spoke with her months ago, happy Malherbe parent).

Best of luck,

I've just looked on the Malherbe website and it says under nursery program that all teaching is in English at that level, so just wondering what makes it a bilingual school? I must say their website doesn't exactly sell the school like the Forest school website or BSP.

I know of a few "bilingual" schools near us where there are no children who speak one of the languages at home, their sole exposure is from the teacher, so you can guess what level of that language the children end up with after a year or two there. The linguistic make-up of the children matters, so does the balance between languages, so does the method of delivery of those languages.

Thanks. I was thinking of joining messageparis when we moved but i think i will do it now instead and hopefully get to speak to some parents.

My husbands company are being really supportive and have said we can go to any school and if the school take children from age 2, they are happy to pay. I appreciate this is rare. I just want to get the choice right from the start. If the BSP started at 2 i think i would just send them there straight away.

Maybe I am being a bit selfish but i thought if they can join a school when we move it would help me meet other mums and children so we have lots to do over the summer months. I am used to being out and about and hate being housebound. My worst fear is feeling totally isolated without any adult company or company for the girls. They obviously have each other but have spent the last two years in each others pockets and the fighting has begun :)