Cyber Glühwein und Lebkuchen - the German and Austrian advent thread

[admylin]

A thread for anyone living in Germany or Austria, or anyone else who fancies a chat.

Happy first Advent to everyone!

Previous thread: here

hi all, wow so busy and so interesting...must have a look at that programme later on, thanks for the suggestion. home schooling is something that intrigues me, but not something that I could do - I have no patience, no knowledge, no discipline. It would be a disaster. I came across some home schoolers where i lived in the Uk, and that was really great because a group of parents (whose children had been bullied at school) had formed a group (verein, i want to say, can't think of the english word) and shared some of the teaching, plus gave their dc extra support for their bullying issues. It sounded brilliant.

nutella - oh dear, sorry to hear the stresses on how to keep the baby warm enough have already began. Have a look at p23 of this guide - might be useful?pre20031103.stm.fi/suomi/eho/julkaisut/mamuvauva/vauva_englanti.pdf
The finns should know about dressing their children warmly. I think I mentioned it on here before, the advice is to put your baby/small child to sleep outside (wrapped up in the buggy) if possible. But not if the temperature was under -11C !!! After doing some work on child protection (back in the UK) I would not get anything with the dc's name on it. It was a recommendation from a US agency that children should not wear their names out and about (thus providing nasty strangers with an instant way to create rapport with the child, etc.). I do get a bit nervous about all those name number plates on buggies. I know, I know, maybe a bit OTT from me, or maybe I read too much...

hope foot heals ploom did you hear more about the job? w. Hope packing goes well ( again for antique, where do you get the energy from? and also for linzer), good luck with interviews (great that there are so many!). Thought of you today advent as dh was off to a meeting where he was trying to stop friends of current members of staff getting jobs and/or on committees which decide jobs and also drawing up job profiles which will only fit their friends etc...busy time at his work with assessments and new appointments. so corrupt and

dh just took dd to dentist and came back with over 1000euro bill for the braces. I am sure this is not what the dentist told us originally.We paid around the same amount last year and got some back. my colleague is paying one tenth for the same kind of brace. i am off to investigate.

but first, time to make dinner. hello everyone else...

Wow, chatterboxes on here today!

Never used or even heard of a pram cushion! We have a foot muff which comes with the pram (well, you pay extra, of course!), and this has been good enough to keep DS warm in the winter. And yes, good idea to hold off buying too much at this stage, you don't know what you might get as gifts, and you can get what you need as and when.

Lots to respond to re the homeschooling so sorry for not namechecking, but I want to rush out a response before this thread gets too ahead of me!
Homeschooling feels very right to DH and me for our family. Our approach is broadly that of unschooling, in that we facilitate learning for our DC, make suggestions, leave out inspiring articles/projects, and let them learn at their own pace. They don't have to stop what they are doing when the bell tells them to. We have no concerns about this approach right now. DS is inquisitive and eager to make sense of his world. This will just continue once he reaches school-age. We will regularly reevaluate, of course, and should we feel we are failing him and it's not working, we will investigate schools. He is also able to tell us if he would like to try school when he is older.
I know a couple of teachers who are homeschooling their own DC (or plan to, should they ever have DC). I also know a couple of teachers in the UK, and though I am sure there is more to teaching than spelling, their terrible spelling does not inspire confidence in me for wanting to leave my child's education in their hands. I know lots of people don't think spelling matters, but I do! I also know lots of teachers can spell, but with schooling, you pick a school, and you never know which kind of teacher you are going to get.

We also know a woman who was homeschooled, and she is wonderful! Perfectly well-rounded, well-educated, personable, successful etc! One example does no a case make, but just to counter the above comment about the guy who was homeschooled not being all that!

We are not at all concerned about the socialisation aspect, and think a non-school environment is actually better for children, rather than being cooped up with 30 children all the same age as them. DS will be encouraged to try whatever sports, musical instruments, drama, art classes etc, he wishes, and that seems sufficient to us for him to have children around his age in his acquaintance.
And no offence to teachers, but I don't see how they can possibly give each child enough individual attention, when they have 29 others to cater to. Our way, we can focus on our DC's specific needs (we are aiming for one more DC, so at most he'd only have to share us with a sibling. Unless we get twins! ). And without wanting to sound all my child is g&t, we do think he is very intelligent, and wouldn't get as much out of school in a class setting as he would with more personal focus.
We also plan to travel the world (as in move around every 18mo or so and live in a new country for a while, rather than just holidaying), and give him an understanding of different countries and cultures first hand. DH is working to free himself up from a nine-five job within the next few years, so we can travel more easily, and both be there for DS. It's not about feeling we have enough knowledge of our own to 'teach' DS, it is about working together to show him HOW to learn, how to research, how to think, how to work things out for himself. If he has specific interests that we feel we aren't able to satisfy, we will hire tutors. The main thing we might need help with his science equipment, but BIL is a science teacher, and has offered to advise as and when! Well, it's a work in progress, he is only 2.2 at the moment, so we have lots of time, but for now, it feels like the right thing to do for us.
Sorry if I missed any points! Hope I answered ok! Feel free to ask again if I did miss something! But ^^ seemed very long already!

In other exciting news, I found Malt Vinegar here (in a British shop)! Woo hoo! Chips tonight!

outnumbered, no offence taken at all, hope no one takes offence at my previous post either!

Right, have eaten my chips, so can reply to things non-home-ed related!

Ploom, intriguing about the job! What news!? Tell!!!
Hope your foot gets better asap. Sympathies.

Nutella, enjoy the acupuncture! Can you enjoy acupuncture? I had reflexology in the last couple of weeks of my pregnancy, 'twas bliss.

cheas, ladilly bird is too adorable! Glad you enjoyed your time with your sister.

outnumbered, any news of your DH's interview?

Platanos, ?1000? Oh my word! Ouch! That's unbelievable! Hope you get most of that back somehow!

santa I have to say that in your situation home schooling does make much more sense than in ours! If you know you'll moving around a lot, then schooling him yourself at home will give him continuity and stability school wise as well. And I totally admire your commitment!

Thank you for asking after dh interviews. Today's was with another big company, in Munich, but this first step via the phone was done through recruitment agents. I'm not very optimistic about it going any further. The recruitment agent said something about dh having a 40% chance. Well, that's another way of saying 'thanks for applying, you are a nice guy but not right for the job'. Let's see what tomorrow's interview will be like. Dh is already dreaming about the IBM job he had the interview for yesterday. It sounds very interesting, with a big company etc. I'd love him to get it simply because his self esteem is really starting to suffer after several months at home with no job offers

I'm in bed already. Don't know why I am so tired at the moment.

Yes, it feels like it will be a good consistent thing, but obviously we will make different plans if it doesn't work out for him.

The right job will happen for him. I hope it happens soon, and the stress is over. Not nice feeling in limbo. 40% isn't zero though, so who knows! Really hope the new year brings a new job. Or even before Xmas, so you can all chill out and enjoy Christmas without having to worry about the job situation.

My chips were delicious, I can still taste the vinegar! As our thread non-Brit, do you like vinegar on chips? I am more continental with my sauce though, preferring mayo to ketchup!

I'm with you there Santa I love vinegar on my chips but when vinegar isn't available I can be placated with mayo.
Although I miss real chips - big fat greasy chip shop chips

it's my bedtime! Been looking up Fußsäcke for toooooo long gotta get this bloomin baby out first!

Ooh yes, I do like vinegar on chips, but not on those stick-thin oven chips you get here. It's got to be on big and chunky chip shop chips. I also love huge amounts of both mayo and ketchup.

Overall, do you miss take always from the uk? We do. There just isn't as much choice here. Then again, it's probably a good thing both for our bank account as well as my figure

Santa moving every 18 months for his whole childhood sounds mad to me - you are basically making it impossible for him to form any long term friendships or relationships with anyone but you and your DH... Fair enough while he is very young, but when he is older, he'll constantly know he's about to move, which will make any friendships transitory things... I also wonder how much he is going to get out of each culture, as basically he will be a visitor and not immersed in the culture or language, if he is not attending a local school or staying lo9ng term and building relationships with neighbours, kids from clubs, sports team mates or any of the other sources of non school bonds. Each to their own of course and you obviously have his best interests at heart and are prepared to review as you go along.

All kids rebel, so you you do know that when he's 18 he's going to change his name to John and go and study accountancy, with a view to purchasing a family house in Guildford with a picket fence, and settling down there for the rest of his life? :o

I think it depends a huge amount on the child and how adaptable they are. I only moved schools twice (once at primary, once at secondary) and it took me years to get over the feeling of being the "new girl". It was the same for my best friend at secondary school, who was far more outgoing than me. I'm quite envious of friends whose parents still live where they went to primary school and have close friends going back 30-40 years.

I'm not sure how much I really learned at school in the way of social skills. I was as shy when I left primary school as when I started, and the first few years of secondary were an absolute nightmare that knocked all the confidence out of me. I do have some happy memories of primary school, but didn't really start enjoying school otherwise until the sixth form. That's only my experience of course, and the fact that I was extremely shy definitely didn't help, but I don't feel that school prepared me for "real life" in any helpful way (certainly not up until the sixth form).

On a lighter note, we never really had takeaways when we lived in the UK outnumbered - but we buy takeaway pizza here and also take a few extra portions with us whenever we go to an Indian restaurant, which we freeze for a later date! I haven't really noticed less choice; we could get Chinese takeaways here too, but DH doesn't like Chinese food.

Morning! Really need to crack on & go shopping but thought maybe I'd do some MNetting first, then go on FB and ......... Who knows when I'll finally get off my bum to brave food shopping .

outnumbered - like santa said a 40% chance is still better than 0. Good luck to him!

santa - I really respect your convictions with regard to your ds's education but I also respect that you're open to change if it doesnt work out. I've seen HE threads on here where the parents are gutted that their dc wanted to go to school. I do agree with grinch tho - moving here and making our dc leave their friends was one of the hardest things we ever did. Yes they all made new friends but dd cried regularly in the first year here because she missed her best friend from the UK. I think it would have been difficult for her if she thought we were going to move again 18 months later. But as I said you seem really open to reviewing how it all works out & you obviously only want the best for your ds.

So the job news is actually very interesting & sounds like a possibility. Dh's boss wants to get involved in doing some multinational studies & needs someone to manage the data - collecting it from the patients casenotes & inputting it into the computer. He had asked dh if i'd be interested because the studies are in English. It would only be a few mornings a week and dh thinks I could negotiate a term time job. Sounds too good to be true at the moment. My only problem is my absolute lack of medical german - I struggled to even explain my foot problem to the GP never mind discussing cancer staging etc. I am very interested though but wont know more till the new year.

That sounds really exciting, Ploom - and the hours sound good too. I'm sure you'll pick up the medical German fairly quickly, especially as it sounds like you already have the background knowledge in English. I managed to pick up quite a lot of fairly specialised French and German when I worked as a proofreader, despite not having any idea what the words meant in English beforehand and it all sounding like gobbledygook at first!

outnumbered I miss Indian take-aways desperately! Nearest Indian restaurant of any type to us is a 40 minute drive (if there's no traffic). There is an Indian near my husband's work and I have a huge sense of injustice when he goes there for lunch with his colleagues occasionally...
It was almost a friendship breaker when I went back to the UK a couple of years ago on my own, just for one night, to a catch up with a group of friends, and we ordered take-away, and one of my (loudest) friends breezily insisted she'd had Indian the night before and was craving pizza, so really, could we have pizza not the pre-agreed Indian. Its such a tiny issue, but I had been waiting for and anticipating that Indian take away for literally a month, and had mentioned it a lot more than once, so I could cheerfully have punched her! Luckily 2 other friends understood so we ordered from 2 places!

I have everything crossed for your DH getting a job offer very soon outnumbered

Linzer I think its easy to underestimate the fact that school just simply exposes us to points of view of people other than our parents, home schooling can get around that but only if there is a concious effort to do so - children who spend 95% of their waking hours with a parent until they reach adulthood are by definition going to lack exposure to people who think differently to their parents - simply observing other ways of life from the outside as a long term tourist passing through numerous locations won't really address this IMO, as you need the chance to get to know a broad range of other people to be well 'rounded, not just pass through a lot of geographical locations. At school, like it or not, children encounter and are influenced by both peers and adults who their parents might not choose for them, and much as I may complain about religious indoctrination etc. I do think this is a good thing, as long as home acts as a counterbalance.

santa this is not a criticism but a genuine question, which I am asking because I have been wondering about my own DD's spelling in English and how to help her with it without turning her off writing in English - how are you going to reconcile the importance you place on teaching spelling with the ethos of unschooling? How are you planning to achieve a DS who spells impeccably, without sitting him down and formally teaching him to spell... I would assume unschooling takes the view that kids who read widely learn to spell that way, but I know this is not 100% the case (I have always struggled with spelling despite being the kind of child who consumed books at a rate of knots once I had actually learnt to read - which I found difficult to do in the first place, a fact that is probably connected).

Nutella fußack research counts as nesting I think :o

I can barely walk the last 2 days and getting my boot on is agony, thought my foot had got better on its own but I'm a hobbling old crone again, stupid foot... Makes me most disinclined to be productive!

Oooh cross post Ploom that job possibility sounds really near perfect - intellectually stimulating but not too many hours/ days! Hope it works out with the term time aspect and the medical German isn't a problem - wonder if there's a short course in medical German you could do?

ploom that does sound exciting!! if you do have some knowledge of the terminology in English, I think you'll pick it up very quickly in German too. my two younger brothers went to public schools in England but then came to Germany to study at uni. They studies one of the subjects they took at A'level (one did Chemistry, the other physics). I remember them saying at first that they found it difficult at first not so much understanding what things were about but more expressing themselves, as they didnt know the GErman terminology. They picked it up very quickky though, and I hope that will be the case for you too. My dad just told me that he's got a one-off job for me as well, proof-reading one of his students PhD thesis...like you linzer it will be proofreading and correcting English without actually understanding what it's about

grinch about your foot! I hope it gets better soon and that something can be found to make it better long term! your view about the benefits of attending school describes mine much better than I could have ever put it into words myself, so thank you :) especially having children who believe the world evolves around them and there cant possibly be anyone who might think differently to them, like different thinks etc it's a little bit like whne I think about how much easier it would be to handle ds1 had we only him as an only child. because it really would be much, much easier. he could do what he likes, no siblings interfering, he'd get lots of attention from us parents by himself, wouldnt have to wait his turn etc etc...but that's not what life is like. In a way him having siblings, especially with one brother who also has problems seeing other people's POV, is full-time therapy...it makes life more stressful, for him and for us, but it' definitely worth it. of course otoh by having brothers, he will also always have 'friends' who will just accept him for who he is, will love him even if he punched them or screamed at them 2 minutes earlier.

linzer I didnt enjoy school myself either. in fact, I think if I realled wanted to pursue it I would probably come out with a diagnosis like ds2...I was painfully shy, didnt say a word in lessons. for my grades that meant I was usually average or below average, as oral participation counts so much. and it took/takes me a LONG time to make friends. the friends I do have are very loyal though. for me moving around a lot would have been just awful. we moved once, when I was 8 years old, and it took me quite a while until I didnt miss my old home anymore. here in Kaiserslautern there are thousands of US military families, and I always feel for the children who also move around every 2-3 years. I always wondered how they can possibly make proper friends that last. But maybe if you dont know any different it wouldnt be so bad? I dont know. I do think it depends a lot on the child as well as the parents. for me it would have been horrible. for our boys also...at the end of the day we have decided that we would rather have a Wochenendehe than having to uproot the boys again.

re take aways, yes, it's the variety I miss most. especially Indians. Also, although there are a few Chinese amd Thai places here, none of them deliver. I can completely and absolutely understand you wanting to punch your friends when you had been looking forward to an Indian for so long. I'm glad you got it in the end though

ok better get organised. I have now decided to make a veggie wellington on Christmas day. the past years we have always had the traditional GErman Christmas dinner, especially as we have always had the PIL over. This year it's just us five. the boys quite like my veggie food, often choose it over the meat, and dh has agreed to a veggie dinner!! I hate going grocery shopping just before Christmas, so I will try to get as much of the non-perishable things today.

Interesting question about spelling, Grinch. DD1 couldn't spell for toffee in English until recently, but sitting down with her for 10 minutes every day and practising vocab (anything she doesn't get right goes onto a list and stays on it until she's got it right five times in a row) has made a huge difference. Your DD is probably too young for that kind of approach, of course... although DD2 (who makes very few spelling mistakes) does enjoy sitting down and doing it with her sometimes. I'd always assumed you would learn how to spell correctly if you read and write a lot, but DD1 has needed a lot of extra work (not unrelated to her dyslexia, of course).

outnumbered Thankfully, oral participation didn't count for anything when I was at school - I had to have oral exams in some of the subjects (mainly languages), but that was OK as it was one-on-one with the teacher/examiner. My A level English teacher apparently told the class after mine (as reported back to me by two of my friends) that you could write everything I'd said over the two years on the back of a postage stamp.

Veggie wellington sounds delicious. I've only ever cooked a Christmas dinner a couple of times as we're usually back at my parents' for Christmas. We had a couple of years with a vegetarian Christmas dinner, but my mum has started catering for the meat eaters again so we have both a turkey and a veggie alternative.

have you seen this?

www.linkfun.net/fun-videos/last_christmas_verarschung_video-4250

from my work advent calender today....made me

Viva the 80s!!!!!

Brilliant, platanos! at "is it a beaver or is it my hair?"

It reminded me of another "literal" 80s video - by Tears for Fears.

grinch the second night at my little bro's (when I popped over there in October) my mum and I ordered Indian :) I can totally understand how unhappy you were with your friend. I would have very politely told them to get stuffed and ordered Indian
Hope you get some help with your foot grinch! My mum had a problem with over stretching her arch (needed more supportive shoes) but it was mainly brought on by stress -she was getting divorced at the time- she was in agony with it for weeks. Once everything was sorted she very quickly felt much much better.

outnumbered we ordered Chinese takeaway a few weeks back and it took about an hour and twenty minutes to arrive :( it wasn't that great and we won't be ordering there again. But where I lived I was definitely spoilt. Although as a kid we never had take away (apart from going to a chip shop or driving half and hour to pick up Indian)
There are a couple of Indian places here but none of them are great and I find they are a bit more expensive than other restaurants. Also you have to have rice with your meal and none of the vegetarian dishes or dhal can be ordered as a side dish, no it's another full over priced meal :( I could cook more... Perhaps I'll look up some recipes for spicy food come on baby!!!

Linzer I also not a great speller. I find German fairly easy for spelling (apart from often mixing up ie/ei) and French is fairly straight forward but things like necessary always catch me out! So annoying. Although I've also been a bookworm too

Ploom that job sounds awesome! I'm sure you'd pick up the vocabulary. I have a friend who works in market research and she was doing some medical stuff in German (she is English with German DH) that her DH couldn't understand.

platanos thank you so much, that is brilliant. I will HAVE to share it on facebook, it had me and dh in tears!

linzer when I was at school, oral participation counted 60-80% of the overall grade at the end!!! I would never consider myself as g&t like my brothers, but I am certainly not stupid...but my grades were usually 3-4s, as my oral participation was a 5 if I was lucky :( the only exceptions were English, Latin and Ancient Greek - for some reason I felt confident enough to participate there.

we just had good news. we are going to be rich from January onwards! Pflegegeld (which I receive for ds1 and ds2) has been raised by 50Euros/month/child . no, I shouldnt really make fun of it as I am sure we get much more than we would had we stayed in the UK.

Morning! Will try to keep this short as I haven't done any work yet this morning (except writing a bill ).

ploom that job sounds very promising. I also don't think you'd have any problems picking up the German medical terminology very quickly, but if you want to borrow the first 6 series of ER on DVD, just let me know!

santa you sound very rational and sensitive in your approach to home-schooling. grinch has touched upon something that I was wondering about, though - how talk of private tutors and attention to details like spelling fit with the ethos of unschooling (about which I know zilch, so am happy to learn more).

The school system worked really well for me in a way, I never lacked friends (although a couple of social situations got pretty unhealthy and must have had an effect on my personality development) and I got the best grades in the school at both GCSE and A level. But I never had to work flat out to acheive those grades and therefore never learnt that to be truly successful, you have to focus on one thing to the detriment of everything else.

I guess what I'm really trying to say about the whole topic of homeschooling is that, although I don't think I could do it, I am very interested in learning as much as I can about how I can support my own child's learning alongside them going to school and if necessary in a way that counteracts certain effects of them being in the school system. Hope that makes sense!

Outnumbered that's actually not to be sneezed at, it's the same monthly amount as the annual pay rise my DH is getting for next year after tax (assuming you don't pay tax on it) at least its not being cut, as seems to be happening to some who receive similar benefits in the UK.

I could have done with an oral participation grade in the UK - do you still get a good grade if your participation is frequent, relatively eloquent but boarder-line cheeky :) I loved school over all (not all of it obviously) and definitely could never have been accused of being shy, but after a pleasant but unremarkable time at primary I did get into quite a lot of trouble at secondary I was a bit Jekle and Hyde in that I got generally good grades, and some teachers thought I could do no wrong, whereas others clearly loathed me. One comical day when I was about 15 I was sent to the head for a commendation (high praise) by the history teacher for an excellent piece of work, then the following lesson sent to the head for insubordination by the maths teacher (he told me to sit outside for being cheeky, so I took my chair into the playground - it was that kind of sillyness - and a sunny day :) ) the history teacher found me outside the head's office and sent me back to class as he said it was "foolishness" that I was there again :o I was possibly a little too self confident within lessons, though not as socially confident outside the classroom once I hit my late teens and went to 6th form - unlike a lot of people I didn't like 6th form particularly, but partly because I had over hyped my expectations and was rather disappointed by how childish it still was. My 11-16 school was a small, financially struggling private Methodist girls school, I had fun there (making trouble) but as my home life was also very limited and sheltered I was desperate to get to the "real" world, and I thought 6th form was my stepping stone, but I took a while to find my feet and was disappointed by the people I met there - was expecting too much! :o

DD will be fine with oral participation grades unless her personality changes dramatically - she's a bit like me in that way I'm afraid. For DS1 it is one of the main reasons for letting him have another year at Kindergarten before he joins the fray at school - he can talk the hind leg off a donkey but is shy and prefers 1:1, getting him to speak in front of a group is near impossible - he does it at KiGa now, but then he is one of the oldest already (his group is a bit unbalanced as lots left for school last year, and they have loads of 3 year olds, who he is more than happy to impress with his cool older boy wisdom and comedy antics :) Would be a whole other story if he had to speak in front of a group of 6 year olds...)

grinch I didn't mean to be ungrateful I do realize we are very lucky with the support we get ( both financially as well as in other ways) we receive for our boys! It was more aimed at the fact that from February we will only have 60% of dh' salary to live on, unless he had a new job before then. Sorry if I sounded ungrateful.

I am still sooo tired, just can wake up properly. I'm also a bit headachy and hope I'm not coming down with anything. Will try to have a little snooze now before picking up ds2&3. This afternoon our therapy dog is coming over so that should be fun

Sorry outnumbered didn't mean to sound judgemental - partly have a chip on my shoulder because DH was all proud of his pay-rise letter (he's only just finished probation) and then I asked how much did he think the % would be after tax, and we worked out it would mean we were about ?100 a month better off, and then he started his bi-monthly doom and gloom financial moan, and asked me again to talk to Kindergarten about when we can next change DS1's hours, as he has a place from 7.30-1.30 atm and its too expensive, given I don't work, and we need to cut it back to the standard 8.30-12.30. I do sometimes drop or collect DS1 late/ early, but I like the 7.30-1.30 place as it allows me to drive DD to school and drop DS1 at the same time, if it is cold and raining or if she just doesn't feel like getting the bus, and the bit of lee-way at the end is nice too (though it doesn't function as I'd planned initially, which was to let DD get her homework done before he got home, as she does much better with a decent length break between school and H/w)

So I feel rubbish that last night I brought DH down from his high (the letter said they were giving him a payrise in his first year because they were pleased with his work) to doom and gloom over money basically!