English company closing down, offered job in other countries- long!

[sliceofcakenowplease]

DH and I work in the same international company (although we do completely different jobs- he's to do with tech, I do website design work). The English company is closing, but we've been offered jobs abroad with the same company, which allows us to work in English (although they stipulate that we have to go to some courses in the language previously).

The places are:
Dubai (not especially interested or happy about this, we're pretty sure not here, though if anyone can persuade me differently, I'll happily change my mind).

Canada (specifically Newfoundland, Vancouver, Ontario/Quebec border, a place called Manotick near Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton)

Israel (Tel Aviv)

Romania (Bucharest, Cluj-Napoca)

NZ (Auckland, Christchurch, Napier, Wellington, Hamilton)

Australia (Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Hobart, Melbourne, Wollongong)

Portugal (Lisbon)

Lithuania

Japan (countryside area, just out of Tokyo)

Sweden (Stockholm, Uppsala)

USA (NYC, Washington DC, Phoenix, Austin, Denver, Boston, and the places which I can only remember state names for- New Jersey, Rhode Island, Iowa, Oregon, Kansas, Alaska)

France (Paris, Lille, Brest (I can't even imagine what my children would do with that name, Toulouse, Strasbourg, Montpellier)

Brazil (Brasilia, Sao Paulo, Teresina, Campinas, Belo Horizonte, Manaus)

Finland (Helsinki)

Paraguay (Asuncion, Luque)

Iceland (Reyjavik)

Czech Republic (Prague)

Poland (Krakow, Warsaw)

I can't get why they're closing down the English section, and yet they have sections in Paraguay or Romania or Sweden or anything!

USA, Canada, NZ and Australia have big plus points for speaking English. However, France is close to London (where we currently live), and Sweden and Finland are fairly close. I don't really want to live in Iceland, but I'd be willing to live in Finland. The Romanian cities/towns where we could relocate are quite small, as are many other places, and I'd like to be in a larger city. Israel would be fine as I have a few relatives there.

DCs are both 12 (nearly 13), however they currently go to an international state school (only local school available) and I have researched international schools (as well as local schools) for where we might live in each one. Tel Aviv has one, Dubai does, and I haven't got far enough with the others.

Japanese and Icelandic, and Hebrew, is meant to be hard? Which is a reason for ruling it out, because though my DCs show a talent for languages (both have been allowed to take extra language classes, namely Mandarin and Russian, and they are already doing German, French and Spanish). They are already learning French, but this is clearly the DCs worst language.

Canada would be okay, we have relatives in Ottawa and Kingston, but I'm concerned about the distance. I'd like not to have to move continents, but my choices, so far, are:

Canada
NZ
Australia
Sweden (Stockholm, my brother used to live there, although it's expensive and we'd probably have to move into a flat)
Poland (Krakow if we chose the actual place)
USA (NYC or possibly (if I'm brave) Alaska)

What would you do? (sorry about how long it is!) Staying isn't much of an option, we both have very specific jobs and are unlikely to find others here.

I didn't realise so much work was involved in moving! Before, we moved to a set area, so we only had to find the house, not worry about the education system/flights home/language/dangerous drivers!

Also just curious where you're looking on the "Ontario/Quebec border". If you mean Gatineau (in the hills) north of Ottawa, then yes good, if you mean east towards Montreal then no! It's important to realise how your life will be impacted differently by living on each side of the border - Quebec does have more social services but you pay more in tax. Also I think your children would be allowed to attend school in English in Quebec because you would be on a work permit, but if that's important to you then you would need to check first. There are very strict rules on who is allowed to attend English schools.

Yes, Gatineau!

Aside from that, some words I've learnt in each language (I've been looking at some expat forums in all the countries I'm considering to see what people thought when they moved)-

Hej= hello/goodbye. Said 'hey'
Hejsan= hi?
Tack= thanks OR please. Apparently, not often used in Sweden.
Ja= yes. Said 'yaaaaah'
Nej= no. Said 'ney' (hey- that's quite easy to remember! I'm starting to like Swedish!)
Varsagod= you're welcome.

God dag= good day (so as hello/goodbye)
God morgon= good morning
God middag= good afternoon
God kvall= good evening! (the 'God' bit's very easy to rmember, it's just th second word...)
Hejda- goodbe. Hej hej is like saying bye, though hej is fine too.

Valkommen= welcome. I think till is to, so valkommen till is welcome to? I'll look it up.
God natt is goodnight, vi ses means 'see you!'.
Vi ses snart means see you soon, vi ses senare means see you later, and ha en bra (!) dag means 'have a good day'. Phew, I'm getting tired!

Forlat (it's got some accents on) means sorry, and I think inga problem means no problem (at least 'problem' meaning problem is easy to remember).

Jag pratar inte svenska means I don't speak Swedish. Jag prata valdigt lite svenska- I only speak very little English. Jag forstar means I understand but jag forstar inte means I'd don't understand- jag vet means I know jag vet inte means I don't know. The (arguably most useful one) is var ar toaletten? Which means (obviously) where is the toliet?

So:
God middag! Tack till! Forlat, jag prata valdigt lite svenska. Var ar toaletten? Hejda! Ha en bra! (try and decipher THAT!)

In Québec they say "bonjour" to say goodbye!

When I lived in Quebec, my friend's husband came to the point where the family had to choose long term residence at the end of work permit or leave the country, they choose to stay. At the time, they had 6 year olds who had done a year in an English elementary, a 12 year old who had just finished English elementary and a 17 year old who'd finished English secondary and about to start CEGEP. The 6 and 12 year olds had to go in to French schools, as they no longer qualified for English schooling (work permit yes, long term residence no). The 17 year old was post compulsory education age and so he was able to continue in an English CEGEP.

If I were moving to Quebec province, I'd either find a French secondaire which has a high number of anglophones and international children in it or if you qualify, an English secondary - if possible one which does French immersion, if it exists at secondary level. I'd imagine your children would be in 3rd year of secondary??? French fluency is a huge advantage in the rest of Canada, it would be a pity to move to Quebec and put your children in an English school if it doesn't have a huge emphasis on fluency in French too.

Local schools are run by school boards, rather than by municipality. You can google "commission scolaire gatineau" and you can see the various schools and school boards - looks like one commission scolaire in the west and another in the east for French. For English schools, there appears just the Western Quebec school board.

The advantage of Sweden is the state system of schools with English and Swedish in the classroom.

If you like culture and life...don't choose Adelaide.

I would choose the USA or Helsinki.

I LOVE Toulouse go and live there

I got quite fed up with the education in Quebec. You should research it carefully if you are going to consider it. We loved living in Montreal but it is best to live there as an expat and with an expats outlook otherwise the politics and French language laws are a bit irritating. to say nothing of the Quebec drivers
English private schools are not cheap and your DC would not be eligible to attend any that recieve any government funding. (which is nealy all of them). Kuper Academy is totally private so you would be able to send your DC there.

Quebec is fantastic for skiing, the hills are small but they are very accessible and you can ski cheaply. Cross country skiing is also fantastic.

Rural Quebec is very, very quiet. . Gatineau is a lovely area in general. (great skiing) and it would be great to be so close to Ottawa.The Metropolitan area of Hull/Gatineau is right across the river from Ottawa in Quebec and has a very different feel to it. I found it a bit run down and soulless. It doesn't have the style of Montreal or Quebec city. It does have some good restaurants.
I love Vancouver although it's an extra 5 hours in the plane from the UK.

I agree with Cahoots. I love Quebec, Montreal is a wonderful city and both my parents grew up there, but I would never live in Quebec now because of the politics. And although rural Gatineau is beautiful (Chelsea and Wakefield are lovely little towns), the city proper is not. If you did end up in that area, it might be preferable to live on the Ottawa side of the border.

This is such an exciting decision you have ahead of you!

What an amazing list! I would be drawn towards Oregon or France. If you like live somewehere small, unpolluted and pretty with great outdoor activities and inexpensive housing, have another look at Hobart.

I think we've finalised the list-

-Stockholm

• Gatineau

-Manotick (still not sure why they have an office there though) -Alaska

And, the surprise one... Reyjavik. Why? Yesterday three friends came over, one of them bringing their family, who we'd lost touch with but I last saw twelve years ago. Two years later, they'd moved aboad. Where? Reyjavik. They were on holiday back here. They said it was a friendly place, quite a few people knew English and the schools (children, now adults, moved at the same age as my DCs are) were very supportive. Talked a bit about moving, education, costs etc; And seemed very good.

Alaska is on there from a mention ages back. Again, not sure about it, we'll be doing research. We decided that although the beaches of Portugal sound good, it's not the lifestlye for us, and we're looking for something which places like Sweden, Canada and the USA can offer for us- as well as Iceland. We'll be discussing with our kids and doing more research, checking house prices etc; and then deciding finally.

By the way, thanks EVERYONE for helping. Apart from Reyjavik really, most of our decisions were because of you!

How exciting!

Great choices except Alaska unless you admire Sara Palin

Mayisout

Reykjavik is a very small town (as is most of Iceland), just to warn you.

Thanks Mummytime. From London, it will definitely seem tiny, and though I would like a big city kind of thing, I think I would also love a small town/villagey thing, and I think DH hates large cities, in fact I think he hates London and large cities, but puts up with it for me, which is why such a small place would suit him- and benefit the DCs.

Time for a stroll on google street view....

We liked Ashbury College in Ottawa, so a possible school if you lived in either Gateneau or Manotick. It's about $20k a year, not cheap but good and they offer the IB which may be a good option for your Dc's as its an international qualification.

You could commute to either Gateneau of Manotick from Ottawa (you would be travelling out the city so the traffic may be OK). Ottawa is a city but with a laid back feel. It's nothing like London but at least you have some city amenities. I bet Manotick would be very very quiet....

I have several Canadian friends, brought up in Quebec and BC, none of whom ever attended private schools. Remember it matters how YOUR children do in school, not what the overall school system produces. Maybe I'm just too stingy, I'd never consider spending £25,000 per year on private schooling, but our net income is about that too so that's another reason why I'd not pay that much.

There are IB schools in Sweden which are free.

I'd do the Maths before moving anywhere.

Don't rule out Lisbon, if you're on an expat deal including school fees. Great lifestyle if you live a bit West along the coast nearish to British/international school where they do IB and get lots of Russell Group entrants. It's an international place, great outdoor life and lots of flights to UK/elsewhere (it's an Easyjet hub, for example).

PM me if you want to know more.

PS poppyamex - what on earth makes you say the Portuguese are good drivers???

There are public schools in Ottawa offering the IB. Check here

I don't think there are any in Quebec that offer the middle years program and the Diploma IN ENGLISH. (but I haven't checked )

Take a look on the IB website. There are 3 schools in Ottawa listed as doing IB diploma, one is a state school.
www.ibo.org/school/search/

Hi again
You mention your DD loves football - Sweden has specialist sport high schools from 16 where they do extra sport training and the basic subjects needed for Uni entry. My SIL went to a basketball one and on to uni after and DH's niece looks likely to go to a football one as she is playin for her county. Women's football is much bigger there I think.
On the school thing, I would send them to Swedish school as they will get huge support for language and ultimately if they go to Uni there the course they want to do might be in Swedish. Also, you need to have a certain level of Swedish to enter Uni and I've heard some of the English schools in Stockholm have had problems with this.
You should check out www.mumsinsweden.com as you will get loads of advice there.
For an idea of properties check out www.hemnet.se - houses are villas and summer houses are fritidshus
It's definitely affordable for a lot of people to have them.

You seem to have totally ruled out Uppsala? It has a great university an with that comes a lot of international staff meaning its a diverse enough place. You'd get more for your money house wise but are close enough to Stockholm for days out shopping and closer to the north for skiing if you're into that as well as the countryside.
I think you mentioned camping further up? Sweden has a law where you are allowed pitch a tent anywhere for one night even private land. You are also free to pick mushrooms and berries etc in the forest.

That's all I had to add for now! X

Forgot to add that children in Sweden learn English from 7 and they get all the US tv series and don't dub them so your DCs classmates even in a Swedish school should have good English - and the tv thing is great when you're a bit homesick yourself!
The main issue people have with settling in Sweden is finding jobs without the language - you wouldn't have this worry 😃

Just going back to the learning English in school thing - I think they'd be learning words like blue when they're 7 - can try and find out what level stuff they're doing at 12/13 as DH's niece is 14.

Arlanda airport is handy for both Uppsala and Stockholm and Norwegian and SAS fly to the UK at reasonable prices.