Die Kaffeestube Teil 2 - virtual Kaffeeklatsch in Germany and Austria

[cheaspicks]

Chat for those living in a German-speaking country, or anyone else who is interested.

englishwoman - my dd gets a tierfreunde magazine delivered every month. Its got facts about animals along with a poster every month. She's been getting it for a few years and still looks forward to it. Just looked in her latest one and the website is here. Seems like there's loads of different ones on that website.

english my dd's German vocab improved alot when she started borrowing German cds from the library. She listened to the whole Der kleine Vampir series by Angela Sommer-Bodenburg and the Pumuckl collection at bedtime or when she was playing in her room she'd always put a story on her cd player. The classics are really nice like Der Kleine Wasserman, Die kleine Hexe and any of the Otfried Preußler books for that age. My 2 also went through a phase of listening to the Kinder Bibel on cd - we're not religious at all but I thought the vocab wouldn't do them any harm!!

cheaspicks I've never managed to grow coriander but the seeds are abit green anyway so I would pick and dry now. My only success in growing anything was mustard - so it must be more like a weed if I managed it! Cute name story!

EnglishWoman Yes, I think reading is so important. I try to read to the DC every night (we're reading Charlotte's Web at the moment), but it drives me mad when they (DD1 mainly) play with something else/look at another book/don't really listen; they like me to ask them questions at the end of every page/chapter, though, so that motivates them to concentrate. DD2 often tells DD1 "It's good to hear English" if she's not listening! Unfortunately, DH rarely reads to them and when he does, he races through at such a speed that you can barely follow him. DD1 does at least read in German (she rarely reads books in English), so I suppose that's one of the main ways in which she expands her vocabulary, although it's more books (Magisches Baumhaus, Gregs Tagebuch, Die drei ???, etc.). They get given educational magazines at school every month or so (well, we have to pay for them), which look pretty good but I think they're both Austrian. DD2 reads books in both languages (and I've just subscribed to Aquila for both of them - an educational magazine that I saw recommended on MN, but in English) and it's helped tremendously with her English spelling.

cheaspicks (I keep wanting to write Chesaspeake! love the story behind your nn) I think DD1's English was still better than her German at the end of her first year at KiGa; in fact, I think her German really only overtook her English at about the time she started school. DD2 says she prefers speaking English (but she's very attached to me, so I suspect that's why), whereas I think the other two prefer German and their German is better than their English. I suppose it's more or less inevitable, as it's the language that all their friends speak and I'm well aware that they probably speak English more like a 30-40 year old than a 6/8/10 year old as I'm their only source of English. (They sometimes come out with things that make them sound a little "old beyond their years". )

admylin Wow, that's a long day considering they must have had an early start. The first day here is little more than a church service and they finish earlier every day on the last day of the school year too, so it's almost like 11 weeks of summer holidays rather than 9.

Had a bit of a shock earlier when I noticed that I had a new e-mail reminding me the DC had a dentist's appointment in ten minutes! (I get an e-mail reminder if I enter an appointment in my phone; not quite sure how, but I'm not complaining!) Luckily I managed to herd them up, send the neighbours' DC back home and get there in about 15 minutes, and we had another 20 minutes to wait then anyway. The dentist said that DD1 isn't cleaning her teeth thoroughly enough so I've got to go back to nachputzing (I sound like one of the DC). Sigh.

Linzer at your dc speaking like 30/40 year olds. DD told me yesterday that "Felix is a super little boy"! I don't actually know who Felix is, and it's not the sort of thing I can imagine myself saying, but where else would she get it from?

Muppet forgot to say before that I lol at your postman story. I've been there so many times, trying to get dressed between buzzing them into the building and opening the door to them! My fault for ordering so much online, I suppose.

cheaspicks Love the cute nn story! Online shopping is a godsend these days - especially now DS has reached the stage of grabbing everything within reach of the buggy and smearing it all with biscuit or something equally lovely
How is the house?

Linzer I had to laugh at your DC speaking English like 30-40 year olds! Is your DS looking forward to the Vorschulklasse?

TheEnglishWoman Sorry your DS2 isn't feeling well. I hope it passes soon and he gives you at least a few hours uninterrupted sleep.

NoHun Good luck with the fireplace hunt!

admylin I hadn't thought about borrowing CDs from the library but it sounds like a really good idea. I'll bear it in mind for when DS is a bit older. He loves sitting and having (very short) stories read to him at the moment. Hope your DC manage the early mornings without coffee & energy drinks!

Ploom I'd never heard of blackboard pencils either. Did you manage to get your boys out for a run around in the fresh air today?

wantingmore Sorry your boat trip didn't go so well.

Nutella Good luck with the flat hunt. We're off to look at one tomorrow night. It's actually a really impractical time to be thinking of moving but this flat sounds amazing, is bigger and cheaper than our current flat, has a balcony & a shared garden so I'd be quite prepared to dip (quite deeply) into the savings for deposiit, agency fees etc. I just need to convince DH (and find someone to move into this flat so we can get out of the contract). Not unrealistic at all then...

Cheaspicks I think "super" is more a carry over from German than Enid Blighton English - it's one DS uses occasionally but he says zooper!

We have English freeview TV which is bad for me in terms of not watching any German TV to improve my German (though the kids watch Kika and Super RTL sometimes) but I think it is good to keep the kids English "real" (man :o) - the opposite end of the spectrum to the bedtime stories to expand their more advanced/ literary vocab!

Thanks for the magazine recommendations, will investigate - ds2 a misery again so off now!

Ok i've had enough - i've taken the dc to the village playground & left them there & come home for some me time! Dd is beyond lazy these holidays & moaned the whole time about going out but I just ignored her and made her go out. We've got nice plans tomorrow with cheaspicks and we're busy weds & thurs but i think i dont cope well when we've got days with no plans. (moan over!!)

I think my boys speak 1940's English too & it bugs me. I read to them like we all do but it doesnt seem to be making the situation any better. Wonder if it'll improve as our dc get older??

EnglishWoman The DC watch too much plenty of CBeebies, CBBC, CITV, etc., but I still don't think it's the same as them talking to children from the UK. They do pick up some funny phrases from children's programmes, though; DD2 went through a stage of saying, "It's been a marvellous day!" (can't remember where that was from) and DS kept telling me, "No need to panic!" (Daddy Pig).

Antique Hope the flat viewing goes well; it does sound lovely. Yes, I think DS is looking forward to starting school next week, although mainly because his best friend is going to be in the same class as him. I'm not sure whether he really knows what to expect otherwise (I'm not sure I do, having never had a child in the Vorschulklasse before!).

cheas at your DD. I tend to overuse super, although in German rather than English. I need to find some alternatives, but won't use toll as I'm now neurotic about how I pronounce l at the end of words thanks to DD2 pointing out my hysterically funny pronunciation of it.

Ploom Possibly not, but maybe it will become less noticeable as they get older. Which reminds me, I asked DS a question the other day and he replied, "Hmm, possibly". 6 going on 60!

englishwoman - thats exactly the same blackboard stuff that ds2 needs (plus more colours). But a friend's dd has just done the 2nd class so she's going to give me the blackboard to save me buying a new one.

antique - that flat sounds good. Hope it all works out.

linzer - my pronuncuation of lots of words in German isnt great so I hadnt particularly noticed the "l" at the end being wrong too! I also use super lots - in English as well.

Hello all! :o
Ploom and Linzer I really try not to worry about my pronunciation (although I've been learning German for less than two years.... and some days it seems like I've given up on Grammar and pron) but I am sure I'll be the same if my DC think I'm hilarious . I was very grateful Linzer for your comment that you were told those that sound Dutch are good German speakers :)
... although I'm not totally convinced

Trying to soak up all the tips about speaking / reading English with the DC... It's really started giving me a good poking at bedtimes now... Also feel it at times during the day. Oh and DP got his first feel a few days ago :) he thinks it's amazing.
Even though I did turn into an emotional, hormonal mess on Saturday

We're still trying to figure out where to go on holiday, I think we'll start with an overnight trip to Hamburg and then onto Denmark for real chips because I've not been there yet :)

Good luck with the flat viewing/moving Antique! And I hope you have some luck soon wanting!

admylin thanks. DH employer didnt originally say they would help us flat hunt but then at the end of last week HR got in contact with him and said they have a real estate agent attached to work who will help. wish they had of told us sooner although we still have to look as well as he said he couldnt find anything. so we will see what happens there.

English sounds like a good idea to me . Hope your Ds is feeling better and has a better nights sleep. Its great your DDs English reading has come on so well.

Ploom yes it is quite tricky at the moment. No DDs dont speak any German at all. DD1 is a bit anxious about it but also a bit excited too. I think she cant wait to make some friends here. DD2 isnt happy at all because she cant start school untill next year where as in UK she would be going in to Y1 in september. so she has been in school for a year and just loves it. she loves reading, writing and just mixing with other kids.
Hope your dogs and boys had a good run about today.

Linzer That sounds like a good idea to plan out the holidays. I will definately try that next year. It was lucky you got that email reminder about the dentist. I really need to bring DD1 to the dentist. I will have to look for one near me.

cheaspicks Hope the kittchen fitters come sooner rather than later. Thats a great story behind your nn.

Antique Thank you. Hope the flat you are seeing tomorrow goes well and you can convince DH about it. Where in Germany do you live now?

Nutella Thank you. Thats lovely your DP got his first feel of Dc. It is amazing. When are you planing on going on holiday?

Hello to everyone else and hope you have had a good day.

Morning all,

I've come to the conclusion that the DC sleep much better (longer!) at home and with an earlier bedtime, as I've just had to wake the DDs up for the second day running. I really don't like having to wake them in the holidays but the neighbours' DC are due to arrive at 7.30 am (I'm looking after them this morning while their mum is at work) and the DC all wanted to be up before they got here.

Ploom I've noticed English-speaking friends here using super (in English) much more than I think they would if it weren't for the German influence. And I had no idea I pronounced l in a strange way until DD2 started laughing at my pronunciation of egal (though I've just tried it out on her again and asked her if she found it funny, and she said "a bit, but not so much" ).

Nutella Those kicks are an amazing feeling, aren't they? And I think emotional and hormonal are quite normal.
I can well believe that English speakers whose German is very good can sound Dutch, as it always sounds halfway between English and German to me. The friend who told me definitely spoke good German (he was studying it) - and then he came back from his year abroad in Austria speaking with a funny accent and using strange words in seminars (I remember Jänner for some reason). It was quite amusing at the time, but I'm laughing on the other side of my face now - he would probably be the one laughing at me as he now lives in Germany.

wanting It must be difficult for your DD to have to go from being at school to being "back" at Kindergarten, although probably good from a language point of view. I wish they did a little more reading and writing at KiGa for those who are interested, but they aren't even allowed to here; it's all about playing, which is fair enough, but the children don't have to do anything they don't want to and I'm sure that starting school must come as a huge shock to the system to quite a few, as they then have to sit and concentrate for hours on end.

Morning.
Linzer hope the babysitting goes well. How long have you got them for?

wantingmore great that the employer atleast offered to help. Good luck. Have you got used to the transport system in Berlin yet? I liked the trams in Berlin Mitte but was always a nervous wreck when the dc went on school daytrips on the UBahn (country girl) but I got used to it!

Nutella enjoy the holiday. Must be nice to just jump in the car and take off somewhere (thinks back to the good old days)! Hope the hormones settle down soon.

Antique hope you get the flat! It's so expensive to move isn't it? We're more or less stuck where we are until dh gets a promotion or a job elsewhere. MyHammer.de is good for cheap removal firms by the way. I've had really good deals.

Ploom lol at 1940 english! My 2 used to speak 1900 colonial English with a slight Indian touch mixed with my northern accent. Luckily it has evened out and they have lost the colonial Indian bit and have toned down the northern part so are quite neutral! To my I have said Handy instead of mobile when back in the UK. People just looked at me as if their hearing had gone or something.

My first session of physio today for my shoulder. Hope it isn't some brutal rough person who is going to yank my arm around or worse (wimp) and I've still got a massive bruise from the injection that didn't really make much difference.

Linzer my pronunciation overall is pants (DH told me about a year ago that when I said the word for daughter it sounded like the word for dead person so now I just say Meine Kind oder Meine Grosses Mädchen - OK or sometimes Mädel :o :( ) but I just tried "egal" on DD and first she said it sounded "normal" but then when she asked why and I explained she asked me to say it again and laughed ... so who knows!

I think Kindergartens must vary because I wouldn't say DS's is just play - there are very definite learning aims and he is "strongly encouraged" to sit in a group of 2-5 children his age with a teacher at various times to concentrate on specific tasks - I think its a very Montessori type approach where when a child is developmentally ready for a skill to develop they are directed and encouraged to focus on that area. They also build a knowledge base of "Umwelt" type topics - they study geography and history and religion and music and science and life sciences as well as personal development and independence skills, they just don't call it by the subject name, but there is always a topic like "Where food comes from" or "Africa" or "Weather" etc. They also have to sit still and quiet on chairs twice a day for quite some time as a whole class for story time and circle time, and have to put up a hand to contribute and speak in front of the whole class. I don't actually think it is THAT different from Reception class in England, except as you say no Reading, Writing and no explicit written maths (though they do do number skills).

Good luck with the physio admylin !

Hope the physio goes well, admylin. DH has just finished a course of 10 sessions for his back and was quite relieved to have it out of the way (mainly because it was eating into his work time), although he thinks it did help (he said the male physios were more effective as they were stronger!).

EnglishWoman Yes, I'm sure that KiGas do vary a lot. Ours has a different topic each year and they do lots of different things with the children (obviously don't leave them on their own to play the whole time, at least not in the mornings; they do in the afternoons as it's Betreuungszeit rather than Bildungszeit). It's really more the huge adjustment from KiGa to school that concerns me - some children cope fine with it, of course, but others don't. Although KiGa is probably fairly similar to reception, once children start school it's very far removed from what I remember of school in the UK - a shorter school day means it's far more concentrated and there's far less downtime (no assemblies, less reading time, etc). Not to mention all the emphasis on grades, but I've written enough on that topic before!

The neighbours' children didn't arrive until 8.30 am, so I was slightly annoyed that I hadn't left the girls to sleep a bit longer - although DS was up anyway and would probably have been pestering me to wake his sisters. I would have been more annoyed if I'd woken them all up early and missed out on an hour of child-free time! Their dad is coming at about 11.30-11.45 and bringing pizza (he works nearby so always comes home at lunchtime); I think their mum works until about 1 pm, but I wouldn't mind them staying all day as the children all get on really well together and it's far easier than if I just had my three at home all day.

Yep, I agree 1st Klasse is very different to year 1, more is expected maturity wise and they probably do 2 years worth of academic work in one year despite the school day being half the number of hours! I do think Kindergarten is mostly great though :) and that really the only real difference is the reading and writing, which after all gives us the opportunity to do that at home in English if they show an interest, without the confusion of learning 2 setts of phonics at the same time :) Adjustment to school being a possible issue is why we're going to keep DS1 another year at Kindergarten and not have him start school til he is nearly 7, though DD has done fine going at nearly 6 DS is less mature in a lot of ways than she was at the age he is now - I notice it at his swimming course for example, she had more internal drive, confidence and self reliance I think, emotionally.

Yes, that's one of the reasons we're keeping DS back a year too. DD2 coped fine at school, despite having only just turned 6, but DD1 didn't - I really wish I'd known how much pressure children are under at primary school and that there were possible problems with DD1, as I'm sure that keeping her back a year would have done her good. I think the KiGa should have more input into whether a child is ready to start school, but here, it's only decided on the basis of a two-hour Schuleinschreibefest, when children often fall through the net.

A friend of mine was told by the KiGa that her DD rarely finished the preschool worksheets, but they didn't seem to see it as a problem so she wasn't worried. It was only when she started school that her lack of concentration turned out to be a huge problem and she ended up being put back into the Vorschule.

I agree that it's perfectly possible to do reading and writing at home with the child - I did so with DD2. DD1, as I've written before, wasn't too interested and with a newborn DS, I struggled to find the time. I do wonder whether, if they did basic reading and writing with the Vorschulkinder at KiGa, they might have picked something up and I might have realised that she wasn't ready for school. But who knows? I have very mixed feelings about the Austrian schooling system; DD2 is thriving and I'd probably be much more positive about it if I only had her at school. However, DD1's four years at primary school have been a bit of a nightmare - and I know that other parents have faced similar problems, where they had no idea before primary school that their child was going to struggle.

Linzer its embarrassing how much I use the word "super"

I think it comes from teaching a lot of German children but in English, and super works well in both languages.

I realised how much I said it when the children all started picking it up. I asked one what the new girl was like and got "Oh Katy, yes she's a super girl" from a 6 year old!

Mental note to self - must find another superlative (and not schön because I use that all the time too...)

Oh and regarding pronunciation, I thought mine was ok until a couple of my class pupils started asking me to say "zürück" in the playground, then collapsing into giggles every time I did .

Didn't help me to feel any better that they were both 6 and tri-lingual.... :)

admylin hope the physio goes well and works. I havent been on a tram yet but have been on SBhan. The transport system is a bit different to the UK but its cheaper and better value.

Wow Y1 here sounds alot tougher than Uk. I know that even though DD will hate going back to Kindergarten as you say it will help her with learning German before she starts school (again)

DD2 met an English girl at the park the other day who lives here so we are going to meet up with her today. Now if only DD1 could meet someone.

CakeBump zurückrufen is the most evil word known to man! I just cannot cope with so many u, ü and r next to each other.

My dentist this morning told me I speak German 'akzentfrei', which I was really pleased about (although I hadn't actually said much, and had his hand in my mouth, so think he was just being nice!)

Mmmm lovely clean, post-dentist visit teeth, but desperate for my morning cup of tea. DS has his first ever dentist appointment next week, which I'm quite excited about. He's currently trying to bite my big toe

Hope the physio goes well admylin - that was my job in the UK but not doing shoulders/backs etc. Really miss it - its a fantastic job to have. (altho dont miss the NHS politics that went along side it!)

I also kept ds1 back till he was nearly 7 before he started school - it was definitely the right decision but wasnt given that choice with ds2 so we'll see how he gets on in September. I agree that the jump from kiga to school seems a massive one and maybe they should all do a Vorschul year in the school as an introduction to school like Reception in the UK??

wantingmore - thats fab about your dd meeting another English girl - hope they become good friends.

cakebump - my pronunciation of "u" and "ü" cause great hilarity in our house so i've given up saying the weather is "schwül" cause i've probably said it wrong and am mortified again!

linzer - agree more dc in the house is often easier. Have fun!

cheaspicks and I are off to the Freibad today - not entirely sure its warm enough but am maybe hoping I can just let the dc play in the water and I can sit on the side and chat!.

Antique Well done on your Akzentfreiheit! My dentist once asked if I was from Tirol. I don't think I even sound all that Austrian (although I probably do to Germans, and am no doubt in denial about it). And someone once thought I was from Wels (since then, I've put on my best British accent when saying Wales).

wanting Please don't be put off by my scary tales of school; DD1 has dyslexia so would have struggled in any system. Like I said, I would probably be quite positive about the system if I just had DD2 at school.
I found the tram quite scary when I lived in Berlin; even though it was just after reunification, it was still very "East German" and there didn't seem to be any indications of where the stops were. I'm sure it must be much more modern by now!

Cake Let me know if you do find another superlative! I overuse schön too, but it doesn't seem quite as positive as super. I also need an alternative to "echt?" but feel silly using all those I've heard (our neighbour's favourite is "bist du gescheit!").
If it makes you feel any better, I've been corrected by a 4 year old before now. Luckily, my DC tend not to notice most of my mispronunciations and mistakes; I think they're used to my German, and DH corrects me far more than they do.