Die Kaffeestube Teil 2 - virtual Kaffeeklatsch in Germany and Austria

[cheaspicks]

Chat for those living in a German-speaking country, or anyone else who is interested.

The thing with objecting to grandparents smoking at all, is that I am not sure it achieves anything, given the fact most of the Kindergarten staff smoke and Kindergarten staff are around the DC (from age 3-6) far more hours a month than grandparents, so it seems a bit overkill/ dramatic/ PFB and a drop in the ocean to make a huge deal and insist MIL give up smoking - if she were the only smoker they were in close quarters with then maybe, but she is not the only one who smokes outdoors away from the DC but later may give them a cuddle after a fall etc. with smoke smelling clothes and hair!

I have never smoked but do have some sympathy for smokers as I can see their predicament because I'm over weight - I'm not polluting the air but I'm a bad example to the kids and maybe dispersing my chances of living to see their kids by being over weight, it would be good for them on lots of levels if I lost the weight but however often I try I always fall off the wagon and the weight stays/ yo-yos, I know I have quite a lot of "issues" with using food the way some people use alcohol or cigarettes - I can therefore see why for long term addicted smokers it isn't as simple as just saying "of course I will give up smoking if that is the price to pay for seeing my grandchildren" or even "I will not ever smoke anywhere, even outdoors or down the road a bit if visiting you" if that means going days rather than hours without their "prop". Ridiculous and out of proportion of course for them to end the relationship with their child and grandchild over it though awesome - was it an instant thing or was there some attempt to compromise that failed?

I wonder if there would be a better and less financially motivated way to meet a grandmother substitute ... maybe I will ask when I start teaching my English class again, almost half my group are grandmother age and some are lovely and do courses for social reasons and I think are otherwise a bit lonely - there must be similar places potential grandmother substitutes hang out and a notice could be read out or hung up! Also one of my students mentioned something about an au-pair scheme for retired people instead of under 25s - she is only mid 50s but intending to go to Austrailia for a year when she retires to be a Grandma-au-pair (I can't remember what the word was) - maybe something like that exists in Germany too...

Oh on the rudeness I've also not really encountered it despite my German being almost non-existent when I arrived and now serviceable but strongly British accented and lacking correct grammar! We also live in a tiny village - people in Munich are a lot less friendly nosey and willing to stop and help/ make time, but that is a normal city thing I think, not German. I do hate, hate the bike bell king-of-the-world on two wheels thing too though! I also hate the "road racer" serious sport cyclists who insist on riding on the road causing obstructions when there is a perfectly lovely, safe cycle path running parallel to but a few meters separate from the road!

Oh I almost forgot but English has just reminded me - my main gripe at the moment is that DH has started smoking again... he gave up but fell off the wagon recently, and now he's smoking as much as he ever was.

It stinks, and I find it so gross and so hard when I'm around him all day

I can see English's point too about the predicament. I know DH can't wait for DC1 to be born, and wants desperately to have given up before then for all the usual reasons - smoke on clothes/on breath etc being terrible for babies plus we want/need to co-sleep because of lack of space...... but he's just finding it so hard to kick the habit. I rocket between sympathetic and completely losing patience with it I'm afraid.

cakebump
I think sometimes the rudeness which I perceive (particularly in the restaurant) is simply because in the UK we go overboard in the other direction: "would it be ok if I...." "could I possibly please....." "if its alright with you would you mind if I...." which is silly in itself if you think about it. So when someone simply asks me "ein Bier" I perceive them as being rude, when in fact they are simply being direct, or sometimes the "please" is implied eg "Ich hätte gerne" or "ich möchte".

This is very often a reason for German/Anglo-Saxon miscommunication.

I as a German have to constantly remember that my German way of saying and expressing things simply sounds rude to English Native speakers.
In return it might be helpful to native English speakers to get familiar very quickly with the German meanings and expressions and sort of develop another ear.

I also would say that Germans compared to Anglo-Saxon folks generally seem to treat strangers with more rudeness rather than foreigners.

english I agree, it is definitely a city thing. Also, I can speak only for Germany here, being in a small town or village really is a matter of either they are all friendly, also friendly to strangers, foreigners, newcomers, in-comers or THEY ARE NOT, so it seems.
This seems to vary greatly from region to region. We have lots of regions here where everyone not at least born there and have three generations prior born and raised there is sort of an in-comer.
Spouses have been known to be ignored or barely talked to and invited to all events, cause they are from somewhere else, seriously.

world my DH would definitely agree with you.

He was only today saying (to our midwife) that he moved to our village as its a little bit more "outward" looking and has, as a result, more of a mix of people.

Saying that, we definitely have the families that have been here forever, and seem to be related to everyone in the whole region, but they are also friendly :)

The village that he used to live in was completely closed it seems, and he had almost no contact with anyone in the village for the year or so that he lived there.

English - We never said they had to stop smoking, only that they couldn't smoke in our apartment or on our balcony ...if they wanted to smoke they could have gone outside the building or even puffed away at our great aunt's house (2 blocks away & where they stay when in Berlin) before popping over to visit us. - great auntie is 84 & smokes like a chimney but has no problem butting out & changing into clean clothes before she visits us and she doesn't smoke when we go over to see her.

The issue is not the smoking, that's just what was easiest for the MIL to cling to as a reason. My husband's mother is a very bitter & cold woman and his father completely under her thumb (he had a horrible childhood). From the moment I met her I tried my hardest to break through with kindness & love and no matter how awful she was to me I just tried harder. So...compromise attempts? Absolutely, several...for years. There is no middle-ground with her. It's her way or no way & we are not the first family members (& friends) she has completely chopped from her life. We were just so shocked that she would do it to her only remaining family (& unborn grandchild) out of sheer spite because she didn't get her way. Actually not really the kind of person we'd like around our child anyway...

As far as quitting smoking...well...if I did it and my brothers did it and my dad did it then anyone can. But you have to really want to quit. I really don't have much sympathy for people who claim that they can't...they don't really want to & therefore won't. There are so many resources & nicotine replacements out there to help...and let's face facts...it's not heroine or crack but it does kill and not just the smoker, secondhand smoke is just as harmful, the stink that stays in clothing even contains the poisons that are dangerous...especially to little babies being held by smokey clothing & hands. O.k...I'm off my soapbox now...

awesome what you are describing is not unreasonable at all. Unfortunately some family members are that way...

world I'm glad I didn't get the wrong end of the stick. I was worried I'd just made an assumption about you being German and was too lazy to check your earlier posts to make sure.

cake and englishwoman I have read about a "fat app" where you record everything (unhealthy/snacks) you successfully resist eating. Apparently it can be really helpful - wonder if there's something similar to help people stop smoking. I have to say I agree with awesome - if reducing your baby's chances of succumbing to asthma or even SIDS isn't motivation enough, what is?

cheaspicks

Hello all,
hope everyone is well. Have been trying to keep up but dps are here and am spending less time on the computer deliberately. Glad holiday was good english. Regards people being friendly or not, I was always welcomed when I lived in Dresden, but I think I got a bit of a reputation as the slightly dippy English girl who said hello to people a lot!

The afternoon activities will get really busy as soon as the swimming lessons start twice a week and the gymnastics etc. E is going to start a pre-K readiness class which is four times a week and sounds a bit similar to Linzer's Vorschule inasmuch as they can be compared. That's in a different school to A's and finishes 15 mins before hers. It will be quite a feat to make it back in time to pick her up!

E is benefitting massively from my dps being here and being able to play all the games with him he wants. It's not that I don't play with him but general housework and cooking gets in the way sometimes.

Wishing you all a great end to the week. Bye for now!

Aargh! I just wrote a huge reply and it disappeared.

Will check in again soon, too frustrated now, and my battery is going!

Morning all,

Just checking in while I'm waiting for some work to arrive. It has to be done by tomorrow so I told the agency I'd need it first thing, but I'm still waiting. It's quite frustrating considering that I could have started it 1.5 hours ago if only it was actually here.

We had DD2's parents' evening last night, which was as unriveting as ever until she dropped the bombshell that she's going to be retiring at some point in the 4. Klasse - either just before it starts or sometime between September and December. The timing isn't ideal if she leaves mid-term but, having had a different teacher most years when I was at primary school, it's not such a big deal for me as it seems to be for most of the parents. And I'm sure DD2 will cope fine. A couple of the other parents said last night that they daren't tell their children (we're not actually supposed to yet anyway); one of them is apparently already struggling to cope with the fact that they have a new RE teacher, keeps crying because she misses the old one, etc. It was the same when DD1's teacher retired; it's seen as a huge emotional upheaval for the children, but I can't really see what all the fuss is about.

Good morning to you all

Linzer I don't think it is a big deal at all. Usually the neuroses of parents and all their fears, worries and big-fuss-making is what creates more emotional upheaval in children than anything else.
Children are very adaptable And school is supposed to be a school for life as well. Learn how to deal with changes, crisis and disappointment. And also how to adapt to decisions made by others who have the power or responsibility to do so. Change is ubiquitous and the ones who adapt best will get far in life, this is best learned in as many different environments as possible.

So, I agree with you. No big deal

I think you're right world; it seems to be more to do with the parents than the children. One mother had apparently been reassuring her DD that the teacher wouldn't be retiring until the end of the 4. Klasse. I don't think it would even occur to DD2 to worry about whether her teacher might retire before she's finished primary school (even though DD1's first teacher retired halfway through).

Personally, I think that getting used to a new teacher in the final year of primary will be good preparation for having to get used to about 10 different teachers at secondary school. The teacher (who was obviously trying to justify herself) said that some children have a number of different teachers at primary school due to maternity leave, etc. but the parents all looked like this.

It just doesn't fit together does it? On the one hand they are quite happy to send 4 and 5 year olds off by themslves to walk to school, on week long Klassenfahrts or leave them alone at home for an hour or two but go all gaga about the emotional upset of getting a new teacher! I don't get it!

Off to my last session of physio (thank goodness) then it'll be up to me to train at home!

Linzer yes that's right. Some children do have a number of different teachers at primary school, some others don't.
And the example with the mother reassuring her daughter about the retirement date, is something this mother has chosen to do. So this mother then also needs to take the responsibility of finding a way to tell her daughter about a different case-scenario.
Some parents unfortunately start direct their own anger or disappointment at the messenger, the school or even the person who has dared to retire early

This is one example of why it is important for parents to be careful with what they share and what not, and where promising things they have no clue themselves if they can own up to it or not could be slippery slope sometimes. But even that is not much of an issue for children as long parents do not make much of a fuss themselves. In fact, this could be a lesson taught right then and there about promise making and breaking

admylin

It's weird, isn't it admylin? I was quite shocked yesterday when DS's friend's mum told me that her son and DS had walked home alone from KiGa. (She'd picked them both up from school and was picking her other two up from KiGa). It's less than 10 minutes but there are a couple of roads to cross, including one tricky one where there are a lot of parked cars, and DS doesn't have much road sense. They'd gone off without telling her but she said that she doesn't mind her DS walking home alone as long as he tells her (he doesn't seem to have much more road sense than DS, however; he ran out into the road in front of our house a few months ago and a car had to brake quite sharply).

Hope the physio goes OK and isn't too painful today!

world Well, according to this mother the teacher herself told us in the 1. Klasse (although I don't remember it) that she wouldn't be retiring until the end of the 4. Klasse unless she had health problems - and she said yesterday that she isn't ill, but doesn't want to stay another six months as she doesn't know how much longer she'll still be healthy. Yes, I definitely agree that the parents can set a good example by not making too much of a fuss themselves. I'm sure that Austrian children aren't inherently much less adaptable than British ones.

Linzer

world the head at dd's kiga says much the same as you - it's the parents, not the kids, who have problems with change. I'm not sure how young they need to learn to cope with it, though. A handful of kids in dd's class will start school in 2015, the majority in 2016, so dd and the others affected will be moved up at some point. I was present when one of the other mums was asking for reassurance that our kids wouldn't be moved up this summer, since they are very attached to their teacher. The head was very dismissive of our concerns, but although dd would adapt to a new teacher and being in a group with bigger, more boisterous kids, she wouldn't enjoy the transition and I can't help thinking that she will deal better with it when she's a bit older and can understand better.

I put in an order at Vertbaudet yesterday - two coats in size 98/104 to choose from. I still need to get dd some bigger full-length trousers - I realised that the ones she's just outgrown are size 18-24mo . It's made me wonder about the perennial "how to dress them for kiga in winter" question, though. AIBU to think they don't need tights under trousers in a room heated to 24 deg? Should I try to get lots of hard-wearing short dresses for her to wear with tights to avoid the pantomime t-shirt and tights look? Or can I send her in trousers with warm socks and leave the tights off?

Oh I couldn't agree MORE regarding the attitudes of the parents towards changing a teacher in primary school!!

I took over a year 2 class (international school, UK system) in January from a teacher who had gone back to the UK. I had no end of problems for the rest of the year, and the problem was with the parents, not the children.

They never really accepted me as the "proper" class teacher and I was always being (mostly negatively) compared to the last one. One parents (I never found out who) even left a poison pen letter in the classroom for me and another one in the staffroom

The mad thing is, as the school is UK system the children change teachers every year anyway, so should be used to it. They had only been with the so-called "proper" class teacher for one term! I couldn't wait to get shot of that class at the end of the year.....

Funnily enough, all the children took it totally in their stride and weren't bothered at all.

Well we're home from the first "day" of school. Ds was in his classroom for a grand total of 45 mins . But he was absolutely fine and was sitting next to a lovely boy from kiga who he knows (altho they've never been friends). There are 2 other boys from kiga in his class who are absolutely wild and can be really aggressive and I really hope he distances himself from those 2 and makes new friends.
He was beyond excited with all his Schultüte stuff - think he'll be on a sugar diet today .

linzer - agree no big deal about the change of teacher. Dd changed teacher each year in the UK and it was no big deal there either. What are those other parents worried is going to happen to their precious dc? Doubt they'll be traumatised for life.

admylin - hope the physio went well.

cheaspicks - dresses and tights or leggings looks better than tights and t shirts but the dc dont seem to care since loads are dressed like that.

Ploom so glad to hear DS's first day went well. I hope he enjoys every day just as much! :)

ploom glad your ds was happy at his first day of school! The schultüte looked great on fb!

Out of badness when I was at the supermarket after physio I did what cheaspicks said she sometimes does in the queue (not moving forward and letting a bit of a gap develop) and it took 3 or 4 seconds for the person behind me to shove their trolly into my bum!

cakebump I bet you were glad to get out of there, sounds like a crazy bunch of parents at your old job.