Geneva, Shanghai, Bangkok or Sydney ? Which would you prefer ?

[crochetqueen]

DH works for an international company and we are due a move abroad....we've put it off but now realise that we can't stall any longer ! To date it's not been that convenient but now we have no reason to put it off.

It's taken us a while to get our heads around doing the move but thought we might have settled on Europe and I decided it might be the best "compromise" - DH ticking the right box at work, great outdoors etc and then near enough to home for friends and family to come and visit without breaking the bank...

It always seemed that the Asian countries might not be an option but now his boss has suggested we go and look at them and it's got me thinking. I have friends who live in the middle east and asia and both have grown to love living there. I have travelled to all the places I've listed save for Shanghai and loved them.

We have two children who will next year be 4 and 7. I am not too worried about them and not too worried about us - I'm sure everyone starts off on a rollercoaster and then settles down - most people I know have found the first 6 - 9 months hard and then, in the main, meet people, settle in and enjoy it.

I think that it all comes down to the age old issue of Family (we both have living parents) and Friends.....At home, we have a lovely community, a good school , fabulous friends and a good social life - I think we'd be fine on most of those fronts and would have other things to fill the gaps - new experiences etc but I know that both sets of parents would be devastated to see us go (our kids are my DH's parents only grandchildren although he does have another sibling she has no kids) - my parents do at least have other grandchildren although I live geographically nearer so by default she is probably "closer" to our kids and has already given me that terrified look when I've suggested we might be going. I did break the Geneva thing to her
and once she'd got rid of the pained expression on her face, she came round to the idea.....Moving to Asia or Australia might be a bigger consideration but that must always be the case for anyone from the uk.

Anyway, that's another matter and this is rambling post !!

We live in Geneva. We're there second time round and probably staying for a while, fairly long-term. Last time was 2003-9.

Having done a year in Manila and not being able to afford to go back at all that year, I would never go out of Europe while I still have my Mum around (she is 70 so hopefully a long time yet). We decided to go back to London in 2010 because of my Dad's health worsening (DH continued in Manila back every couple of months). We got back in the June and he died in the August, I am forever grateful that we timed it right.

I am an only child, and have always been close to my parents. My ILs are in Edinburgh but luckily SIL lives in Edinburgh too with her family, which is good.

It's a big consideration. Also the timescale, if it's only a limited time then go for what you fancy. If you think it might be longer-term, think about everything v carefully.

If you have any questions about Geneva fire away!

I'd pick Sydney. It's a but spendy but the suburbs are so nice and theres so much to do plus easy to access everything with no language barrier. I found the centre of Sydney a bit grubby but the beach suburbs like Manly and Bondi are really lovely.
I know nothing of Geneva or the other cities but I have lived in KL which is sort of similar to Bangkok. I liked it but I think I'd find a live/work situation there quite hard going.

Shanghai (and I'm sure Bangkok is the same) is great if you wan't an active social life after work and if you will be a SAHM. Everyone has an ayi (super cheap babysitter/nanny/housekeeper/cleaner) so I would imagine your social life would be fantastic here. There are ample opportunities to meet people through SAHM networking groups like ShanghaiMamas, INN (International Newcomers Network), ANZA (Australian & New Zealand Association - takes brits too), various Brit groups etc. Also, as everyone has been in the position as a newbie with no friends they are very welcoming to new comers and you find yourself invited out and to join in a lot.

My concerns about living here with kids is the pollution. We have an IQ air (hospital grade air cleaner) or Blue air (not hospital grade) in most rooms and I don't feel the least PFB about having them. When I worked in a school in Beijing we often had whole weeks days where the kids weren't allowed to play outside because the pollution was so bad.

Living overseas is a great experience for kids - meeting people from so many different cultures, learning that things that seem "disgusting" are viewed as cleaner than the western way or just normal (spitting - I still think it's revolting but get that it is seen as less revolting than a re used hanky), travel in Asia, weekends in Japan or Korea or Phuket or where ever...

I'm desperate to leave tbh but we've been here 8 (me) and 10 (DH) years between us. I'd go to Bangkok like a shot - direct flights to most of the world (it can be expensive to fly anywhere from China because it's not really a hub), long weekends in Phuket, the food, the people... Fingers crossed that we're going to Sydney.

Finally - and this is a bit doom and gloom but there you go - I absolutely would not come to Asia if I had any concerns at all about a cheating DH. It's bloody rife and can be a real boys club. It's very, very easy to cheat here.

I'd go for Sydney too - I've lived there, and as long as you are on a good international package to cover the high cost of living, you can have a great quality of life. Distance from family and friends is the only big issue, and if you want to explore Asia on holidays, it is much easier from there (stopovers on way back to UK, or shortish flights to south-east Asia with no jet lag).

Shanghai is a fascinating place, but it is huge and expensive, and the big problem people I know have with Shanghai/Beijing is the air and food pollution, which is a major consideration if you have young children. Don't even consider it if there is a family tendency to asthma/allergies.

Geneva is in the middle of beautiful countryside (obviously), there are lots of international schools, closer to the UK so easy to pop back for visits, great if you love skiing - but just a bit boring, in my opinion.

I don't know Thailand at all, so can't really comment on that.

Wow, thanks for all the responses.....I visited a friend in Sydney who was doing a similar thing a few years back and she enjoyed her time there (she then went on to Asia) - her kids were little at the time., We are quite outdoorsy and that appeals to me.

I am asthmatic and allergy prone as it seems is DD...Shanghai might be a no no for those reasons.

Great to see the differing views - we are planning only a 3 - 4 year trip - 2 years too short and 4 years would see DS through Primary school ready to come back for senior years......and who knows - after 3- 4 years we might decide to move to another place.

Funnily enough I've just been to pick DS up from my Mums and I broached the look see trip to see the different places- My Dad was there and he was very much of the "sieze the opportunities you can particularly in this doom and gloom market we're in at the moment"....quite good timing before my Mum started dwelling too much !...

Yy to food pollution in china.

Ritz crackers, for example, use a substance in their local market (ie not the ones exported back to the uk) ritz crackers that have a known carcinogen that is banned for sale overseas in them.

We've had more milk scandals than you can shake a stick at and most people just drink imported UHT.

A number of people I know don't eat any soft fruit due to the pesticides used.

Food is a huge part of our budget here and the range is very small, especially in comparison to Beijing let alone tescos.

Oh I'm a grumpy cah cos I want to leave so maybe not helpful. Many friends love it here and so did I. But having dd made me see how unhealthy it is and I'm just done with it.

I'm in Shanghai - have been here quite a few years now and to be honest my allergies are much worse when I'm back home in Europe! Pollution can cause problems with Asthma of course but I know there are many many asthmatics here as well so I wouldn't say that was the best reason to rule it out. There are always things you can do like air filters etc. As comrade says - shanghai is great for an active social life and it's a really interesting place to live - I have found people here so much more welcoming than any other place I've lived in (there have been a few but no others on your list!) because everyone knows what it's like to be new - it's a real "highs and lows" place. I love it and I'll be here a while longer mainly because financially it will get us where we want to be a lot faster than anywhere else (and I'm kind of stuck in my ways now!).

Re in comparison to the others - I don't know Geneva or Bangkok (but feel that here is more civilised on a day to day basis than what I have heard about bangkok but that's a very baseless opinion!) Sydney seems to be one of those places that you're either lucky and make friends or you're not. Also it's v expensive and people tend to stay when they get there (have several friends who have ended up there and will never leave.... but then again there has to be a reason for that!) - and Sydney is literally twice the distance than asia. Feel free to pm if you have any specific Shanghai questions.

If all the parents are in decent health, go further afield if you want to and it's only 3-4 years, your Dad's advice is sound. Can they afford to visit if you went to eg Sydney and likewise can you afford trips home? If so and with fab Skype you can keep in contact.

I'm in Bangkok and have lived in Geneva and am about to consider a move to Oz so I would say that you could be happy with any choice. Having lived overseas for 11+ years with children, I have found that we are happy most places as long as dh and I make the effort to settle in quickly. Good luck with your decision.

Sydney is literally twice the distance than asia

This- there is a tendency to think that all Asia is kind of grouped together, but Shanghai/Bangkok is a 12 hr flight, Sydney a 24hr one. Makes a lot of difference for elderly parents coming to visit and the cost of flights.

I'd also take a very good look at where the big offices are in your DH's business/ where most of the action and growth is happening in the sector. You don't want to get stuck in a tributary and get forgotten about at a key point in your career. A couple of people I know moved here (HK) from Sydney as they found the banking sector too quiet down there/ not enough deal flow. However, if you're in mining then it's a different story, so depends on the industry where "the place to be" is.

Agree re Shanghai - am asthmatic and has been fine... Expensive city though but great social life and nice seasons

thanks again....this is a real help. Both sets of parents are late 60's ealy 70's and to date a few health things but nothing to stop travel. Both manage a couple of holidays a year and are financially ok. Of course at that age things can change but at the time we make our decision that's the case.

I'm actually mildly excited about going further than Geneva...I wasn't that excited about Geneva but will do it as there are lots of positives for it but it does feel like swapping my current life for probably something similarish without the upsides of uk life ! if I'm going to change my life for a while I really wanted a new and different experience and culture...

I'll report back in a few months !