Canada - Cost of living...

[Spuddybean]

Wonder if any of you can help me. DP and i are planning a move to Canada next year, probably Toronto. On a thread in chat i started about something completely different mentioned things/cost of livin being more expensive in Canada.

I thought this but DP wont have it. If you live in Canada (particularly Toronto) would you mind letting me know what you think is the average for bills over there.

We currently pay £700 mortgage, £100 gas and leccy, £40 phone/internet, £125 council tax, £40 water, £300 food, per month. Is this more or less than average for 2 people in Canada?

Thanks :)

I moved to Toronto from London 2 months ago, living in the west part of Toronto. Mortgage would largely be dependent on your area and situation. Food is more expensive but there are ways to make it cheaper, like buying in bulk and shopping at Walmart. For a pack of chicken breasts that are 500g I have paid around $8 (not including HST). Cheese, weirdly is quite expensive ($11 was the cheapest block of parmesan I could find so letting go of that habit in a hurry). I can easily spend c$200 every week and a half on groceries at Walmart. Public transport is cheaper than the UK and so is petrol. Like resettling anywhere, the setting up costs are what make it expensive. (Initial mobile phone setup fees, shipping your stuff etc). For hydro (water/electricity) you pay for what you use and also is dependent on the time you use it. After 7pm and before 7am is the lowest rates, so you can always wait for those times. Cars are more expensive but most houses will have somewhere to park. Car insurance was quite high.
And there are a few differences for instance, there is HST which is added to everything at the checkout.

Thanks. One the thing which is giving us second thoughts is the health care/ins. We don't really understand how it works. Also DP can't decide whether to get a job or set up on his own. So if he sets up a consultancy we wont have any medical. Also i have been diagnosed with early MS. So we don't really know what to do. His wages would appear to drop too. I think most jobs that he would do would be about $85k whereas he is now on about £70k. But we have to go soon or the visa will expire, so we have to decide really.

Also do you know what is the average annual leave allowance? As DP may set up a consultancy back here and travel back to do a few weeks at a time.

Annual leave legally is 10 days (2 weeks of working days), I think most people get around 3 weeks. My DP managed to negotiate 4 weeks. Maybe your DP could have a go at negotiating a similar salary to his current one? Once you have a work visa you can apply for an Ontario health card. This healthcare only comes into affect after you have been here 90 days, makes no difference whether you are a returning resident or not so you need health insurance to cover you while you are in your first 90 days. Apparently it is hard to find a family doctor (GP), I have not tried yet as I am still in my 90 day wait period. I have seen this link on a chat board www.cpso.on.ca/docsearch/.
It may be worth speaking to a few people about how to go about finding doctors for MS. Found this link mssociety.ca/ontario/default.htm I am also not sure how long it would take to be covered by national health if you get pregnant, I am trying to investigate.
Service Ontario www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_residents/index.htm is where you go to get your driver's license changed over from UK one (c$75) and for other things like your health care and registering a business.

Thank you - that's really informative.

Not sure about negotiating a similar salary as we were planning on pitching up and DP just applying for things in his field. The company he works for is US based but they have no Canadian presence. They have asked us to move to Washington DC, but our heart is set on canada.

After a couple of other posters have also given me info tho i am now feeling this may not be financially do-able. We want a better life with less work and more things like ski-ing/mountain biking etc but i'm not sure that will be feasible with no surplus cash or holiday. DP currently has 5 wks hol and can work from home. hhmmmmmm

Just to let you know the hydro bill has just come in - I was wrong hydro=electricity and for a house (2 adults and 1 baby who have a lot of washing to do) and a flat underneath the house it was c$311 for 2 months.

You won't find anyone happier with their move to Canada than myself - it was the best thing we ever did - but in the circumstances you have described Spuddy (i.e. taking a drop in wages when living here is definitely more expensive, wanting more outdoor activities when your husband will have to work more and you'll have far less free time to take part in them together plus you're talking about the complete wrong side of the country for the best that Canada has to offer in that regard and then also taking into account your health situation) no way would I advise that you make this move.

Sorry. Obviously it's your choice, but I can't see it working out how you both hope.

Why not stay far better off and just book a couple of holidays to the better side of Canada per year? Or give the US a try if you're after a complete change from the UK? I'm assuming his company would give him an attractive relocation package if they want him at the DC office, whereby he could insist on keeping his current vacation allowence, and with them providing comprehensive health insurance?

Hmmmm we have been chatting and we may just do it for a year or 2 for the experience. This sounds smug and I dont mean it to - but we do have savings which we can dip into. It's more for the experience. Not sure what to do now.

Thank you. Forewarned is defo forearmed.

Just curious, why Toronto? Is it because of your DH's industry? Because the skiing around Toronto is crap and it takes quite awhile to get out of the city for biking, hiking etc. Everyone I know who lives in Toronto loves it, but as lazydog says, it is expensive and doesn't marry up with your desire for an outdoor life at all!

It sounds like you might regret it if you don't do this, though. If you've got the funds to make it work as an experiment, go for it.

Well Toronto because of DP's industry, but we may not get a job for DP and continue his consultancy here and he just return every other month for a few weeks. We could use our savings a bit too. If that's the case then we would prefer Vancouver, but the flights back are more and longer which would eat into his earnings to work back here.

It also seems to cost more to live in Vancouver than Toronto. We don't want to rinse thru all our savings and come home in 3 years and DP have lost footing on the career ladder.

We live in a suburb of Toronto (Oakville). There are loads of places to go mountain biking (very nearby) and skiing (if you're willing to drive for an hour or two...and most people who enjoy those things are). Toronto itself is expensive but you can easily commute from just outside (Burlington, Oakville, Missisauga) and the cost of living really depends on what type of dwelling you are looking for....Vancouver is heaven (have lived there too) but is very, very expensive (for obvious reasons). Costco is your friend when it comes to food and household supplies. It sounds like you may need to do a bit more research with regards to the job front, tbh. That would make me very nervous.

The main problem we have realised is not necessarily the money drop, but the annual leave allowance. I suppose we hadn't really considered that at all and how it would affect coming 'home' and having our own adventures.

If DP got a job with 'only' 4 wks annual leave we couldn't cope. This would mean ALL hol time would be taken up coming back to the UK to see our parents (DP's parents would never come to us - they have never visited DP wherever he lived, London/Cheltenham/MK and they only live in Notts) and mine would only come over every few years - they would spend their money and annual leave time on beach hols. So 2 wks at xmas and 2 wks in the summer spent coming home would mean nothing left in the pot for skiing/biking etc.

How do other families do it? Do you still come back regularly?

Coming back for 4 weeks every year sounds excessive to me, unless you have an expat contract that pays for it. I think you need to think about Skype andof you are really that close to your families. The cost will probably be prohibitive anyway.

Maybe we'll re-look at DC. Oh it's so confusing!

Thank you all so much tho, you are making my decisions much more informed and easier. :)

Well mummy we would need to come back at least once per year. My family are in London and DP's in Notts. But not sure about DP's parents as he is all they have and they refuse to leave their house. I know that's their choice but DP feels responsible. We couldn't see everyone in less than 2 weeks - so that would need to be a minimum.

None are computer literate. My parents would try skype i think.

I don't think the cost (altho expensive) would be prohibitive for DP his parents would probably pay the tickets for him and we have already saved a 'contigency fund' for health emergencies (as with 4 aging parents we know we would need to come back in a hurry sooner or later).

Which is why the consultancy work over here would be best, if we can negotiate it and clump it together (3 weeks every other month). Then while back here DP could tack on a visit to the PILs.

I have to say if my DH was relocated to DC I would be very interested, at least short term.

Think you're right mummy . Had a chat and i think we will probably end up in DC. Seems the life we want in canada is unworkable and not worth going if we can't have what we want. Also DP's work would then cover shipping and medical ins which we would have to pay ourselves in Canada. We will probably end up skiing/biking in the rockies more if we live in DC than if we live in Toronto.

DP's work would pay for him to come back to the UK every few months too to oversee the London office.

We would probably live in Reston where his office is. Just sad letting go of the canada dream. :(