Advice about schools and locations in Paris.

[Ruthchan]

There is a chance that we will be transferred to Paris next year by DH's company.
The office is based to the north east of the city, not far from Charles de Gaulle airport. It would therefore make sense for us to live in that direction.
We want our DCs to go to international school, either all English or bilingual French/English as that's how they are schooled at the moment.

We currently live in a suburban area and would prefer to do so again. Is that realistic, or is it necessary to live in the centre of the city for the commute to the international schools?
All the international schools seem to be in the centre or to the west of the city. Is that right?
Where would be the best places to look to live towards the north east of the city?

Sorry to ask so many questions.
TIA

As you have found out, I believe that all the international schools are either in Paris or to the west. I can't think of any to the north or east, unless I am overlooking something.

Obviously a lot of people will live in the north east suburbs and commute to Paris for work, so the commuter lines are well established. However, the RER B which covers the north east suburbs isn't the most reliable of lines, and depending on the age of your children you may find it quite crowded and stressful and peak times. You can look at ratp.fr cross referenced with an RER map to see journey times from various north easterly stations into Paris.

I think that commuting from the north east out to the west could end up being reeeally long, and would definitely necessitate changes of trains etc.

In terms of where to live: as with many big cities, the more well-heeled, leafy and prosperous suburbs are to the west, particularly St Germain, Marly le Roi, Versailles etc. The immediate north (Saint Denis, Aubervilliers, La Courneuve) is, generally speaking, not very nice and to be avoided. Due east you have a few very nice, charming towns - Vincennes, St Mande, St Maur. However, you also have a lot of dross. I'd say the majority of the suburban towns to the east / north east (and lots in the south as well) are perfectly fine and safe, but really lacking in any kind of character or personality, and sometimes low on amenities. This is my big gripe with living in the suburbs of Paris really. In London, lots of the areas in zones 2, 3, 4 etc have their own character, their own personality, their own vibe with plenty of things to do in their own right, which doesn't necessitate going into the centre of London for entertainment. In Paris, the suburbs are really just residential areas with little atmosphere or character, and you are forced to go into Paris if you want to do something beyond go to the local cinema or visit the obligatory handful of local restaurants.

All that said...I don't know the north east particularly well, so maybe I am not aware of some gem of a town up there that someone else might be able to point you to...

There is this hors contrat bilingual school which at the moment is for 2.5 to 9 year olds. It's near the Parc des Buttes Chaumont. It's 5 to 10 minute walk from line 5 metro stop "Laumiere", that's 3 stops to gare du nord, from where you could catch the RER line B up towards the airport. The name of the school is "Living School".

There's "Cours Moliere", another hors contrat bilingual school, near metro line 8 stop "porte dorée" but I think it's no better situated than EAB or EABJM, in fact possibly worse situated, plus it will cost more than the EAB and EABJM.

I'm sure there is another school out east of Pairs as well, just can't think of its name and it might be further away than living in the centre of Paris, time-wise for a RER commute.

www.livingschool.fr/en/pages/our-school

Or this school north of Paris in 95 département in the town of Presles. You could drive to Charles de Gaule, not sure if you could take a train
Rather unimaginative name "Bilingual Montessori School"
The area is on Transilien line H, in zone 5 of the greater Paris transport system, nearest station is "Presles-Courcelles". It's a 35 minute train ride to Paris gare du nord, you could take and RER line B back out again towards Charles de Gaulle, probably quicker driving directly east to Charles de Gaulle
www.ecolemontessori95.com/English/index-4.html

You might find this interesting reading OP: www.howto.co.uk/abroad/living-in-paris/living_in_the_suburbs/

There is this school north of Charles de Gaulle area, a bit further from the centre of Paris but a bit nearer to Charles de Gaulle perhaps, just looking at the map.
"Bilingual Montessori school of Oise" in Chantilly. Hors Contrat.
It's near "Chantilly-Gouvieux" RER line D train station.
I remember a mumsnetter saying her child was at this school.
www.montessorischool-oise60.com/en/

Oh and Chantilly is mentioned in the link Riverboat posted as having plenty of Brits, which led me to this link. Maybe Chantilly is just what you are looking for. The APARC association have an Anglophone wednesday school running in a local school, the other school days the children attend local French schools. A cheaper alternative perhaps to the Montessori school.
www.chantillyexpat.com/Content_2/pa=showpage/pid=1.html

Ruthchan - I agree with riverboat about Parisian suburbs lacking in amenities. You might find them very dull if you are used to London suburbs/commuter towns.

Your choice of school will depend on how much your DH's expat package will cover. Don't whatever you do choose a hors contrat French or bilingual school - hors contrat schools are not like English private schools as they are totally independent and there is absolutely zero quality control. Go for either a French sous contrat private school or a state school in a nice area of Paris (or Versailles or some other decent suburban town).

natation - I know you mean very well by linking to all these hors contrat schools but you don't know what you are talking about (this is not Belgium!) and you really shouldn't be suggesting that people should take a serious look at them.

Thank you so much all of you.
There is some excellent information here.
I am especially interested in the idea of the Montessori school in Chantilly. That might be a possible answer to our dilema.
I would be interested to find out where the children who go there go after they graduate from that school.
Anyway, I have plenty to work on.
Thanks again!!

FlyingCloud lives out that way, I believe, Ruth. You might try and message her.

Thank you.
I'll give that a go!

Please bear in mind that schools such as the Chantilly Montessori school are answerable to no-one (no Ofsted, no Independent Schools Inspectorate, no Ministère de l'Education Nationale). You have no recourse at all in the event of dissatisfaction, other than removing your DC from the school.

Hi Bonsoir
Yes, I understand that. Thank you.
I wouldn't choose the school unless I was happy having visited it, met the staff and got some feedback from other parents with first-hand experience of the place.
Whatever school we choose, there is a good chance that it will be independent, probably an international school of some kind.
It doesn't worry me that it will be outside governmental control. That can be a good thing.
My children are currently in an independent Montessori school and I am extremely happy with it. I cannot imagine a better environment for my children.

The British School of Paris is answerable to ISI but ONLY because it chooses to be. Chantilly's Montessori school could also be answerable to ISI if it wanted to be, just like any other international anglophone school if it applies and fits their inspection criteria, but it is answerable to AMF and AMI because it chooses to be - not all Montessori schools in France are members of these associations because the don't fit their criteria. Same goes for all the hors contrat English speaking schools in France.

RuthChan - please don't think that I am defending government control. I am talking about the very specific situation in France where it is extraordinarily easy to set up a school that is hors contrat and for there to be no governance structure at all. France is the only country in the developed world not to have any form of independent inspection for schools - the Ministry of Education inspects its own schools, which is highly anomalous in the modern world, and no-one, but no-one, inspects hors contrat schools (or the hors contrat part of some special sous contrat schools).

Anyone can open up a school in Belgium too, it's pretty similar. There is no government control here either. Some of the international schools are recognized as schools, they have to have some kind of control from abroad and offer some kind of qualification from abroad. But several of the schools which market themselves as international and have fees are not recognized as schools.

All children children of compulsory school age in Belgium who are not enrolled from the age of 6 upwards in a local school will at some stage receive a letter from one of the 3 educational authorities (and another letter and another letter if they don't respond) demanding a justification why they are NOT in a local school. The letter contains a list of recognized international schools, if your child is at a recognized school, you have to go to that international school and obtain a certificate of enrolment from the school, then you return it to the educational authority (3 of these, one for each official language). If your child is at one of the schools which are not recognized as schools, then the child gets a personal inspection as is treated as a home schooler! It does feel a bit scary that every single child is monitored and there is a database of children and where they go to school.

So the non recognized schools don't get any inspection at all. Here is one :
www.bicschool.be/en/
and another
ecoleacacia.be/
and another
www.acmontessorikids.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2&lang=fr

natation - so in Belgium they monitor children in the absence of a school being officially registered. That is already a very significant improvement over no monitoring whatsoever. Indeed, it makes quite a lot of sense: it is actually a lot easier to monitor a single child and see whether they are meeting expected standards than to monitor a whole school with a completely different framework.

This is all very interesting.
I know AC Montessori. There's one near here. And I would never even consider sending my children there because I have heard such awful things about it.
I understand what you mean about the lack of checks on independent schools, Bonsoir. Thank you for the warning.
I'm not sure that it's a reason in itself for avoiding a school completely though. I would still consider a school that was hors contrat, but would make sure that I checked up carefully about its standards and reliability.
Reading what Natation says, I imagine that my DC's school is also unrecognised by the authorities here. However, I believe it to be the best preschool in this area.

Yeh but it's very big brother don't you think? I think when they reach 12 years old, they might now also require those in French speaking land to take the CEB exam too which they must enter as external candidates. This non recognition causes problems too if you then try and transfer into the local system, I know a teenager who had to return abroad for 3 months and live with his aunt and return as an "international" student (he hadn't even been to school abroad in that time) in order to transfer from a non recognized school to a local school. So the system has its downsides. It also means the schools can indeed teach what they want, but actually I can only think of one of these non recognized schools (I didn't post its link) which seems to come in from quite a bit of criticism about the lack of education and the way in which the school is run by management.

I don't think it is remotely "big brother" for there to be external checks and balances on schools. Developed countries do this and France is an exception in not having any form of independent inspectorate. It is no different to any other form of consumer protection system.

Presumably in Belgium children who attend unregistered schools would be removed from those schools en masse if the children were consistently found to be failing their individual inspections and the schools would close. Whereas in France parents just have to trust in the school. There are a few hors contrat schools with great reputations (eg Cours Hattemer) but they are long standing schools that eg publish their own textbooks that outsiders can buy.

The other big issue for French hors contrat schools is why on earth anyone good would go to teach in one, since it would put paid to all their career prospects in the mainstream system.

There is a recruitment problem in French-English bilingual schools as it is because teachers are typically paid less in the French system than the British, so it is very hard to recruit good teachers directly from the UK. Some schools do pay British equivalent salaries and recruit direct (eg Lycée International in Saint-Germain) but most don't. So the English teachers can be a bit dodgy, IME.

There is also an examination in France for children wanting to enter the sous contrat or state school system who have been at school abroad or in hors contrat schools. It is problematic because it takes place at the very end of the school year when places have already been allocated for the following Rentrée. This is particularly true for sous contrat private schools, who typically allocate places during the winter. Their lists are often closed by the time the exam takes place.

The turnover in the unrecognized schools is too high I think for a mass exodus because of individual fails in inspections - don't actually know how in depth the inspections are - they are all schools with a very fluid population so they already have a high turnover, perhaps with the exception of one which was set up less than 10 years ago.