Help - Super help - Singaporean expat mums!

[S999]

hi there, I've been looking at the threads and i know this is the place to come for highly-informed opinions on relocating families to Singapore.

My DH (of course) is seriously considering a job move to Singapore. Timing is unclear but I would guess within the next 6 months.

Our first condition to his employers is that we have to get our kids into great schools there or we won't go. My daughter is 6 (going into Year 2 in sept), my son is 4 (going into Reception in sept) and youngest son is 19 months.
The elder two are at different prep schools in central London, where we live.

I have done a bit of research and am i right in thinking that the schools I should focus on are:
Tanglin
UWC
St Joseph's
Dover Court

I know there are Canadian, Australian etc but we want to keep them as close to the British system as possible.

I also know the waiting lists are crazy but I have called a few and there is possibility (VERY initial conversations) for January. I haven't spoken to Tanglin yet.

The next issue is my daughter is very academic and is possible gifted and talented, school work and violin. We were considering a local Singaporean Girls school for her - Raffles, Methodist etc. IS it a real palava to apply and get into?

Thank you so so so much in advance for your help. I wish I could wake up and all this will be sorted out for me. You are probably the closest thing!

Hi,
Waiting lists can be long here, but your kids are young and it is generally easier to get young kids in - you might find that Tanglin (or another) can offer your second born a place in preschool and then your 6 year old gets in in the higher year soon after (usually not at the same time) as a sibling (siblings get priority over others on the waitlist).
Also, don't forget that the Aust, Canadian etc International Schools run the IB program like Tanglin and others, not the domestic program of the country they're named after.
My kids are not in the local system so I don't know about the application process but think carefully about the education you want for your kids - If you want to stay close to the Brit system then a Sing school may not suit. It is a different way of learning, and has its supporters and it's critics. It is a high pressure system and is generally not regarded as one which turns out independent thinkers. This is something the govt here is trying to address but it will be an experiment for your daughter. All of the international schools will have gifted and talented programs if she is really g and t and if you want to push her there is an endless array of enrichment programs in math, science, music etc before and after school - many local kids are in them. Good luck with your decisions.

What Kday said. Local schools are very difficult to get into (for expats). They've recently made it even more difficult for expats to get into them. You used to need to be a Permanent Resident now I believe top priority goes to citizens. This effectively means there will likely be no places at the best schools. Nan Yang primary is used by some expats, they got in as PRs, I think you wouldn't now, you'd have to be a citizen. Sorry, probably very unclear.

TTS and UWC are very good schools also St Joseph's (IMO). Some of the other schools are slightly behind UK curriculum - I found TTS is ahead of UWC in the early years for example.

The schools you listed have good reputations though more of a good state school rep than competing with the good public schools in the UK. Raffles is considered a top school but doubt you could turn up and enrol your child there or any of the 'top' Singapore state schools but you would have to look to that.

Your children are still very young so ulu have so e manoeuvrability and time to pick the right school.

Yes, you're right Hoonoo re: good state. This surprised me as significant minority want top tier independent style with small class sizes & have the money to pay for it. Marlborough will be an interesting addition to the mix.

Yes Marlborough sounds interesting for those who want something more than what a singapore has to offer.

TTS is a good school and it runs more efficiently than any school I've known. Thing is if you want a prep style education, with small class sizes and incredibly high academic expectations IME this may not be it. The school is also incredibly well resourced. The school keep telling us that the average child in the UK gets a level 4b etc so if a child achieves this or slightly better that's great. My expectations are higher but not everyone is the same. The teachers predominantly have state sector experience. Essentially the education is designed for your child to slot easily back into a state school in the UK and be able to thrive. It does this very well. If you are trying to get to an academically competitive London day school at 11 you may run into trouble.

Most would be going down the state route in the UK and it caters for the majority. Personally I think it's the best school not least because of how well run and resourced it is.

The problem with Marlborough is the commute (if in Prep). Many have concerns about this in Singapore. We are watching and waiting.

Thank you all so much for your help. I have made enquiries, TTS and UWC are both non-starters until 2014! However, it is only my very first enquiry, I need to get hubby's company on the case too.

Do you think a reverse sibling policy might help ie. if I get my youngest in nursery and then the older kids?

Local schools - I think that is a super long shot, I have looked into these too initially and if we want to get a place in one of these, then we will investigate once we are there.

I haven't heard back from ST Joseph's. Are they also known for long waiting lists?

Finally, it does worry me that all these schools are the equivalent of basically well-run state schools in UK. What do most children do on return to UK at 11 plus? Do they board? My sons will still be a few years off the common entrance if we return in 5 years or so, that should help, I think. It's my daughter I am concerned about.

Thanks again, everyone.

We will be coming back just in time to start stressing preparing for dreaded 11+, the idea currently is that we come back and put DS into Y5 (currently he is in Y2 in UK and starts Y3 at Dover Court in Aug).

I think it will be interesting to see what happens to his education while out in Sing, could go either way. Just the fact of him getting a different slant on life might be enough to lift him out of his current (very lovely) daydream plateau; or as PP have said we could see him dipping a little in terms of not getting up to the same speed with entrance requirements as his current buddies will be doing back here.

Our time-scale out there is so short, and spans precisely the sort of years that he would otherwise be slowly getting up to the sort of standards he needs to sit 11+ but I can't worry about that. I intend to just enjoy the time we have out there and enjoy the experience. No doubt I will feel the sting when we get back to UK and find he is no longer on a par with his contemporaries. Guess he'll just have to make different ones.

Am I sounding pious? Don't meant to. It's very easy with just one son, much harder to carve out three small people's futures than one. Am also just musing, as you prob guessed. It is a difficult thing, though, this business of 'slotting back' into the UK system at some point. Am hoping we will get lots of positives whatever the academic case.

Will now get coat.

Hi londonmoo, why did you choose Dover Court? Did you apply to any others? My daughter will also be going into Y2 if we go this year.

What was the waiting list like for DC?

Hi S999,

My son is going into Y3 - everyone else who is new seems to be going into Y2!

So I started by pulling up a list of Singapore international schools, knew straight away we wouldn't want local as we wouldn't be here forever, then combed the forums for feedback. I drew up a top-six list then wrote off Tanglin and UWC immediately due to wait lists. At that point I focused on curriculum and opted for a British system because we would at some point be moving back to UK.

I also loved the sound of OFS, ISS, Chatsworth but in the end I went with a UK curriculum, and also the forum-speak kept pulling me back to Dover Court and I just had a feeling that it might suit our son. Since choosing it another forum friend has started there last month and loves it. Phew.

As far as waiting lists go we did all this back in March for an August start and we had a tense moment when DH's company would not/could not confirm his new role (which is local, not expat, but still with the same firm), and our current UK school was about to break for Easter and we therefore needed to hand in notice to avoid paying Sep term fees, and Dover kept tapping their watch and warning that wait lists were about to start; not sure if lists are now in place as we never needed to find out - in the end everything fell into place on the [rather manic, looking back] last day before Easter - confirmation of DH role, place at Dover and notice given to school. Stress.

And then it all went calm. Once we had made the choice we were very tranquil and pleased about it. You can comb forums til the cows come home, talk to people, read between the lines on websites, all that, but how can you ever really know if a place will work for your kids? You can't. I am still going on hearsay and I like what I hear, and the very few moot points I've read don't put me off.

As a plus, once this was all done, my Pa who is a specialist in international education in senior schools, browsed Dover's website and said: "well, it's a copy of xxx (DS's current school), really, isn't it?"

No higher recommendation for me :)

I looked at Dover Court and really liked it. Was our choice, especially as TT and UWC were no goers due to the waiting lists anyway. ST Joes also had waiting lists.

It was older and less flash, but the buildings looked well maintained and it just had an old world laid back charm about it. The classrooms were roomy and plenty of grounds for the kids to run about given it's only a small school population compared to TT and UWC which I liked as my kids were still quite young.

Looked at OFS and though I had heard good things about it and was seriously considering it, once I visited I scrubbed it right off my list. Dowdy, shoddy and way overcrowded. The classrooms were awful and I can't imagine what they are spending the money on, they must be raking it in.

Hownoo am so pleased you said that, it's what I heard from others and one of the reasons why I didn't pursue it even though the prospectus looked good.

You see, S999, happy as I am I won't be 100% sure we've made the right choice til we're there.

I might add a) I also went on school feedback during the combing-through process and b) I have never before chosen a school sight unseen, very odd thing to do, really, but DH visited a few weeks back and gave it the thumbs up.

Phew again.

We used Eton House in the past and were quite happy with it for younger children. Chatsworth East and The Canadian school on the East all seem to do quite well and offer similar things. Smaller, more personal school experience similar to primary schools in the UK.

Hi again, S999. The reverse sibling priority thing might help you. I haven't had to use it as only our oldest is in school but people are quite upfront about it. You could certainly ask TTS etc where your daughter would be in the waitlist if your son got a place in preschool. I don't know if your son would go into preschool, though - he might be too old depending on his birthday. If he's too old for preschool you might find it doesn't help as the first year places will be taken by the current preschoolers, so he would be on a wait list too. Then it would be a matter of when a place came up - meaning you'd need another school for thrm both to cover them until a place came up. I hope that makes sense. It has been a long day - three kids under five have sapped all brain power today!
Is it right that kids will have to board at Malborough from 7?

No, Marlborough a a day school all the way through if that's what you want. They are predominantly a boarding school.

Do talk to TTS; their waiting lists aren't as bad as usual at the moment. A lot of families are relocating this year, more than in the past couple of years.

Or because pupils are moving to Marlborough . Seriously, Empire is right, lots are relocating this year and I think you may get lucky.

Yes lots and lots leaving at the moment.

Re St Joseph's DS is starting in January 2013. Basically they are taking on 2 sets of pupils so one in August and another in January then going forward they will only take on in January(I am not sure where this would put your son - if he's a 2008 baby then could join in January if 2007 then it would be with the August starters). DS is August born so in the UK would start this September too. We applied in April 2011 and he was about 25th on the waiting list to start in August. When they announced the change in year we were given the option of taking a guaranteed place in January 2013 or staying on the waiting list for August 2012. As he would be the youngest in the year we decided to wait till January. Waiting lists are not so long because of this for 2007/8 children but longer I think for 2009 children. I am not sure for other years higher up - you might get lucky but then St Joseph's doesn't offer sibling priority (see my post on the other thread).

I only hear good things about DC too.

OFS and Chatsworth (not East campus as haven't seen this) I feel exactly the same the buildings and facilities look really old and shabby yet they must be raking in the money - my state school looked better and that's nearly 20 years ago!

Local schools priority goes like this:

Citizens
Permanent Residents
Everyone else

So pretty tough and PR might not be an option you want to take as you have boys . Even within the 'citizen/PR' applicants there is further distinction if the parents were previous pupils and for faith schools it the child/parents are part of the congregation/baptised there. There is also priority for parents who have completed 40 hours voluntary service .

Hi there, thanks again, so helpful!

We will have to try the corporate placement road if we have any hope of Jan 2013. DH still in talks on the job itself so maybe not have any feedback on that for a bit!

St Josephs sounds more hopeful. My middle son is Dec 2007 so we might get in for Jan 2013, right? Youngest not an issue just yet. But what do I do with my eldest girl? May 2006 - so will have to hope there is space.

Its this living in limbo, are we or aren't we going, most likely we are but when???

This is more frustrating than the waiting lists!!

Hi again, I have contacted St Joseph's and they said there were 80 people on the waiting list for jan 2013 and that this keeps rolling over from year to year. Does that mean Aug 2013 might be a possibility? I asked the lady but she said that there are fresh applicants too...not sure how this works then...
Anyone who applied for jan of aug and got a place a few terms later?
thanks so much

Hi S999 - I don't think I explained myself very well in my earlier post. But there won't be another entry in August 2013. Did they say whether there was a long waitlist for August 2012 as your DS would be eligible for that class too - I think January 2013 is meant to be mainly for those born in 2008.

Anyway FWIW it works like this:

For children eligible for UK academic year 2012/13 i.e. those born between 1 September 2007 and 31 August 2008 they would normally start in August 2012.

Under the new system the cut-off will be 31 December. So for children born in the calendar year 2009 they have to start school in January 2014.

For those born in 2008 but after 31 August 2008 then they have to start in January 2013. But if date of birth is from 1 January 2008 to 31 August 2008 you could join either August 2012 or January 2013 class (of course depending on waitlists ). This is what I understand from the correspondance we have had with the school to date.

Clear as mud??? Take a look at the newsletter on 2 September 2011 on the website.

I think what the school means by the roll-over is that if spaces come up during the year then they get offered the those on the list and carry on to the following year if there is no place during that year so your son would potentially start school a year later. So if he's 81st on the list you basically have to wait till 81 pupils leave that year group or parents take children off the waitlist and you move higher up. I don't really have a feel for the speed of movement but the school/others should/may be able to help there.