Anyone living in France but working for UK company?

[hollypocks]

Long shot I know but we are moving back to France from the UK this summer. My company are being great and letting me to work remotely for them from France with occasional trips back to the UK. The only thing I am concerned about is how this impacts tax, social charges etc. I will only be working 13 hous a week and have mutuelle etc via DH. Has anyone any experience? Many thanks

Yes, in a similar situation, but not sure I can answer all your questions. You will continue to be a UK tax payer and your husband will be a French tax payer.
You should be able to get a carte vital (husbands company may be organising this) as well as your mutuelle. This will cover your health expenses but will take some time.
You should be able to continue getting child benefit but not any other benefits I don't think. If you are renting out an owned property you won't have to pay council tax.

life - surely holly will be tax resident in France (and unlikely to be tax resident in the UK)? I have a friend who lives in France and works for a UK company, but is f-t in the UK Monday-Friday not a very similar situation as holly.

Although many people don't, you should de-register from the NHS if you're not going out of the country temporarily, holly.

We're in a similar situation. A quick look also at other expat websites would suggest you pay tax to the UK still, you must also declare this income to French Tax authority and the double taxation agreement applies.

I'd be less sure about national insurance. If you get classed as a cross-border worker (even though you don't physically cross the border yourself), you might be liable for French social security and would not therefore pay UK national insurance - the specialist unit of HM Revenue would help you there, it's in Longbenton just outside Newcastle. If you don't end up paying national insurance to the UK, you won't be able to claim UK child benefit any more, or have a credit towards a UK pension, but you should be able to claim French equivalent. I'd read up more about his on the HM Revenue website, but the info there is not as comprehensive as it could be.

My husband does this. For most jobs, if you are resident in France for more than 50% of the year and do the work in France, you must pay tax and social insurance in France. My husband is set up as a legal representative of the company in France and pays an accountant to do payslips. The biggest problem is that employer charges are around 12% in the UK and 20% in France, so they may be unwilling to pay extra. My husband gets pays gross and pays employer and employee charges so there is a gap but as he is paid London wages and we have a lower cost of living here, it's ok (ish).

We've been doing it for 7 years, he goes back to the Uk for a week every few months. However some of his colleagues tried it from Paris and found the charges too heavy to manage.

You need to check out urssaf.fr, they've details in English. I think it is under CNFE. Sorry but can't manage links on the phone. We found the Uk tax office unhelpful - it's not their jurisdiction.

There are some exceptions - seasonal workers etc but generally if you are living in France and doing the work in France, you pay France. We didn't find the paperwork that complicated to set up - paying the different bodies is more bureaucratic!

Thank you so much for all your replies. We actually lived in France for 8 years until we came to the UK for 3 years but I wasn't working for a UK company at this time. My French DH has been on an expat package here and we have still paid French tax and continued to claim child benefit in France and not the UK. I already have a Carte Vitale and his company pays for our family mutuelle so I think I am covered on this front but still not sure about where I should be paying NI. I think this confirms what I had thought about the double taxation agreement but it seems impossible to get concrete advice on the social charges/NI issue - I'll try the HM revenue. Thanks again for all your words of wisdom!

Meant to say that I wasn't working in France for a UK company before - not sure I made this clear !

It is indeed the HM Revenue's jurisdiction if you are employed by a UK company and are paid in sterling as if you were a UK employee - everyone's case is individual, but normally as a satellite worker, you'll pay to the UK, declare it to France, France would apply double taxation and if you were to pay MORE tax in France, they would ask for the additional tax.

The norm for social security is you pay only ever in one country, the one you actually live in (I myself end up paying to 2 countries due to a rule about UK civil servants, much to my consternation, as I cannot benefit from both countries!!!!). Lots of cross border workers in France, French social security should have the greatest knowledge of this, the numbers are in the 100,000s.

Just looking at these links though, cross border workers are supposed to pay tax AND national insurance in the country they work - and in OP's case, France might claim they work in France and the UK might claim they work in the UK!!!

Think a specialist accountant's advice is needed.

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/index_en.htm

Na

Natation, check out urssaf. I did lots of research on this before we left and the only ones i found with the info are the French govt sites and for us, it hasn't been complicated.

www.urssaf.fr/images/ref_1562-GuideESEF-UK-2011.pdf

Aimed at employers but has most of the details you will probably need. My husband has nothing to do with UK customs, even though he is paid in sterling by a UK company: it is where he works that is the deciding factor.

We decided that it was worth our while my husband staying an employee and the company was reluctant to employ him as a consultant. We would have paid less to the taxman but it was not clear if you could hire the same consultant on a long term basis without making them an employee eventually. Hope this helps!

I know this chain is a little bit old but it matches the situation of my husband and we desperately need advice on how it worked for you at the end.
usuallydormant - how do your husband manage having the gross salary to pay the employer and employee part? We looked at the pdf but this showes that the employer is still paying employer part... Any advice would help to understand how it is working for you. We are next to Bordeaux if it helps discussing it...
thanks in advance for anyone who could helps us as we are trying very hard to see how we could live in France.

Hi bunny
DH's company pay his gross wage directly to him and add on the 12.5% or so employer contribution that they would be paying to the uk govt. that was the deal he made with the company to move. He is legally designated the company representative in France and he pays employer and employee social insurance to France out of this sum.

The downside is that in France, employers pay a lot more social insurance (can't remember exactly but nearer 25% if not more) so he basically gets a big paycut. As he was on a London wage and we now live in rural France it's ok, but a colleague tried it from Paris and the sums didn't work out, so do your homework on how much you'd actually take home.

It is a fair bit of paperwork to set up the payments to the relevant departments as there is no paye system so you have to send off various cheques each trimester.

You then need to pay tax, which is per household and done annually. Hope that helps a bit!

By the way, a whopping 70% of this total goes to the govt!! There are a lot of benefits - good health care, tax help for childcare etc but it is a massive chunk gone.

Freelance might be an option - you'd pay less charges but I believe the govt can crack down on you if you are really an employee and not a real freelancer, but you'd need to check it out. It is hard to find info as most expat forums are aimed at retirees or self employed workers targeting the expat markets ( trades, tourism).

You can work in France for a UK company using the ESEF Status ( Entreprise Sans Etablissement en France = Foreign companies with no place of business in France).

The company just need to be register with the French social organism but will have no fiscal existence in France. The employee will be fiscaly resident in France.

Our company use to assist non-French company in this matter : www.projinvest.com/work-in-france.aspx

Do not hesitate to contact us for any further information.