Car seats and living in the developing world

[Alligatorpie]

for the last year we have been in Egypt, where traffic is terrible and almost every day we see accidents. we don't have a car, the school bus takes us to work / school and there is a car service we often use when going out and use taxi's for the way back.

When in a taxi, there is sometimes a ( one) seat belt in the back, which I strap myself and my six year old into. Often there are none in the back. Very rarely there are two. Dh sits in the front ( women can't sit in the front with a male driver) and there is Usually a seat belt which he uses.

Now I an 38 weeks pg and worried about how we will travel with an infant. There will not be a place to strap a car seat into ( we sent dd's booster back to the UK at Xmas as we couldn't use it at all) But as i will be home on mat leave, I will be able to walk a lot of places, so will not need taxi's very often.

I am incredibly stressed about this and don't know what to do.
I was thinking that dd could sit with dh in the front and get strapped in with him, and baby would be in a sling, so strapped in with me. I know this is not a great solution, but I don't know what else to do.. Can anyone see an alternative ?

Please do not judge me if you do not live in the developing world and have not experienced this. I had a huge fight with my fil last night as he said I can't do this, but couldn't offer me any suggestions. It is so stressful, that I am thinking about not returning to Egypt, but know that is not an option either.

Thank you.

Alligator, I sympathise with you.

First of all, relax a bit. There are a lot of babies in Egypt and I imagine not many are involved in car accidents. Yes, not having a car seat increases the chances of being injured in an accident, but if you don't use cars much, the risk of actually being in an accident is still low.

I have sometimes had to take my children, including new baby, in a taxi without car seats (in the UK). I don't like doing it, but at the time it has been necessary. When I had to take my young infant in a taxi, I wore a baby Bjorn sling with my baby in it. I then wore the seatbelt (with the seatbelt going BETWEEN ME AND THE BABY (i.e. NOT over the baby as that would injure the baby if the belt tightened in an accident).

I grew up in the 70s. No car seats or seatbelts in the back. As an infant, I apparently travelled in a basket wedged on the parcel shelf (and since I was an early crawler, frequently escaped

Try not to stress about it. You can take every precaution that is practically possible, but you cannot perform magic, only do your best in the given situation.

Thank you skrull for your kind words, I thought I was going to get flamed for being a bad parent ( as happened last night)

I also grew up without car seats, but we didn't know better then, and now we do. I will try not to worry, as I only have so much control.

Did you strap yourself in and then put the baby bjorn on and then the baby? I am just thinking of practicalities. I think when I was Indonesia and dd was 4-6 months old, I put the seat belt below her legs( she was also in a bj), but I know that is not the best option as she was still set belted in with me.

Thanks again.

I think the back is safer than the front, I'm not sure I would want to put dd in the front with your dh. With no MOT inspections the seatbelts quite possibly aren't as effective as here, and I would worry about being thrown forward and squishing her.

I don't think you should be flamed, it is a totally different scenario. Even here children travel without car seats in taxis (and illegally in many private cars) and thankfully the vast majority are fine.

Is buying your own car an option at all? (probably a stupid question)

I would be inclined to put the baby in a car seat, even if it wasn't strapped in.

It's supposed to be dangerous to strap a child in together with an adult as your body weight would crush them in the event of an accident so I really wouldn't consider strapping your dd in with your dh.

As for the baby, I think a baby bjorn, while obviously not ideal, is probably the best you can do under the circumstances.

no, don't use a baby bjorn - the plastic clips won't be strong enough

a better bet would be to strap yourself in first, then use a woven wrap sling to tie the baby to you as it will not have weak points like a baby bjorn

never strap a child into the belt with you as your weight would crush them in an accident

could you use an infant car seat wedged into the footwell?

I never though about wedging the infant seat in the footwell, that might work, then dd and I could be in the seatbelt ( she usually sits beside me, not on my lap)

We have thought about renting a car, but I wouldn't drive it there, and since dd and dh get picked up and driven home from school / work everyday, there isn't such a need. it would just be the odd trip on the weekend.

Thanks for the suggestions, any more? Cheers!

The way I thought about it was this:-

• in a serious accident, any 'bodge' jobs (i.e. baby in sling, child next to me/on lap in seat belt) would not do any good, and possibly even harm.

• in a minor 'bump', they would do some good - help stop child/baby slipping off lap/seat.

So I did the best I could, and trusted that there would not be a serious accident, which fortunately there wasn't.

It is a nightmare and you have my sympathy. On the very rare occasions I couldn't drive our car in Oman and had to rely on a taxi, I stopped loads to check their seatbets.
I was always very cross at the number of people/children in cars without seatbelts, let alone car seats. One baby we followed was rolling around on the parcel shelf at the back.
For weekends, could you think about renting a car? otherwise I think footwell is the way to go.

I am from Egypt, well ok my dad is, but know the country well, there isn't anything you can do really. What I realised though that you need to be a really experienced driver to drive there so I'd actually feel safer with a taxi driver and no car seats than driving myself with them. That probably doesn't make sense at all, but seriously I wouldn't know how to drive over there, they seem to just know how to.

Good luck

other option buy a car and pay a driver?? its quite cheap and they do have private taxi companies with better cars that have seat belts, oh and what we used to do was actually get the no of a taxi driver if we liked his car and then we would use him exclusively but my dad knew how to suss them out and choose one, and we would pay them well.

I live in HK (not sure that that counts as the developing world) but you still have the issue of car seats in taxis because not that many people have cars and even if you do, you often cant use it as there is likely to be nowhere to park at the other end. To be fair, HK taxis do have rear seat belts, but unless you have a travel system, what do you do with the car seat once you're at your destination?- you're not going to carry it around while you do errands for 2 hours (unless you have arms like Pluto ).

So....... I used the ergobaby sling with seatbelt between me and the baby and still use it for DS now he's 20 months. Not ideal, but it's that or never go anywhere.

I think I would try to find a driver with a car with seatbelts and pay him privately instead of using taxis.

Richman, wouldn't you use a car seat travel system for a small baby so you take the car seat like it's a pushchair, just like you said, then perhaps go for the Trunki boosta back pack which can be carried on your back for a child once older. I'd also search out drivers which have seat belts in their cars.

My only experience of being in this situation was on a trip to Thailand - did lots of emailing to taxi companies to find one who could guarantee sending a car with seat belts in the back, we took a 2 piece car seat with us, one I would never use in the UK, but better than nothing or putting our 2 year old under my seat belt.

Footwell at the back with no-one in the seat would perhaps be the safest option if you cannot get a car with seat belts, wouldn't consider front footwell as front collisions are much more common than back collisions, especially if you can manipulate a car seat into the footwell.

Oops sorry, I see someone already suggested the car seat in the footwell!

I had something like this:www.amazon.com/RideSafer-Car-Seat-Travel-Vest/dp/B000KCV61U We travelled a lot with small children, and this is a safe legal option to use if you don't want to carry car seats around. In our vest, you can also safely put baby in car vest on your lap, with the seat belt attached behind him to the vest.
By the way, I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I think English people are way too obsessed with car seats.

www.amazon.com/RideSafer-Car-Seat-Travel-Vest/dp/B000KCV61U

Natation- when he was in a 0 stage I did.......so long as where I was going was stroller friendly, which in central HK is not the case as the city centre is so steep that there are steps cut into the pavement everywhere, so you really need to be able to just sling them.

Haven't seen the Trunki thing here- thx for the link-, think that would be popular (considers becoming distributor). Some people use a freedom harness but there are mixed reviews on how safe they are.

However, will stick my neck out and say that although it's really hard for car seat cultures to get their heads around, half the issue is that people (incl expats)are kind of ok with not having their children in car seats here so the hassle vs safety ratio is very different to the UK where I have seen threads where people are massively massively inconveniencing themselves to avoid a 5 min ride without a car seat. I cant really explain it though (and not seeking to justify it), other than that the Uk doesn't really have the taxi culture that many places do.

Re drivers with car seats, HK taxis just do not have car seats (even if you called the dispatcher they couldn't help you), so you'd have to use a limo service (posh 7 seaters) which would be ££££ as they're designed for corporate clients who want driving around to a bunch of meetings/ airport transfers, not a 10 min drive down the road. They also have to be booked several hrs in advance. Remember that people use taxi's in HK very casually as they are cheap and plentiful- it's not a one off- it's maybe 5 or 6 a day. Some people have their own FT driver, who drives their car, does the school run, drops them at work etc, but that's not financially viable for most.

I do feel for you, but I would say, don't relax about it, do be prepared to go to some lengths (eg stop 5 cabs until you find one with a rear seatbelt you can strap the travel system car seat into). It is much more important to maximise child car safety in Africa than in the UK, because the roads are significantly more dangerous.

I understand exactly how you feel - I live in Qatar and I see babies and small children rolling around in the backs and fronts of cars every day. I don't think I will ever get used to it.

When we've been in Oman and UAE on holiday we have caused much consternation by walking along a taxi rank, systematically checking and rejecting each car, until we have finally found one with working seat belts! Luckily we have our own cars here, and our children are older so it's never an issue for us in recent years.

All I can really suggest is that you get your own car and use your own car seats.

Thanks for the comments.

I like the look of the ride safe, but it isn't an option for a newborn. My six year old could use it though.

I have stopped five cabs to get one with a seat belt in the back, but as we live outside of Cairo, it isn't always an option. In Egypt, it is very unusual to find a taxi with more than one in the back. I am not sure why drivers take them out, but it is very frustrating.

Rich man - it s interesting that HK has the same problems, I haven't been there since I had my dd, and I think of it as very developed.

Alli There is just this odd dichotomy in people's brains here. Baby/child car seats are not mandatory in HK, but if people have a car, then 99% of them will have a car seat in their own car for their child BUT weirdly that does not extend to travelling in other people's cars or taxis where they just sling them or sit them on their lap or just let them sit on the seat next to them.

To be fair, HK taxis do have adult seatbelts in both front and rear, and wearing the seatbelt is mandatory (although not consistently enforced by either driver or police, and most people dont bother). If you have a car seat you can use it in a cab, but people don't once the child gets beyond stage 0, because of the practicalities of what to do with it at the other end, and having time to get the seat installed in a "hail in the street" system (so you usually have to leap in and out whilst the cab's stopped in traffic/ at the lights/ on double yellows - not that many ranks).

It would be really interesting to do an expat survey in HK, and find out why people are so relaxed, despite many coming from countries where car seats are mandatory. I wonder if there's a difference between people who had their child here, and those that had experience of the system in other countries first.

I think the other factor is possibly that there are not many fatalities as traffic is quite slow moving (40kph speed limit on most roads). If there was one and it was publicised, I think people would overnight become more cautious.