Kindy in OZ, hold DS back for a year?

[SeymoreButts]

I am looking for some advice on starting DS at kindy, I'm really not sure what to do and in a bit of a flap. Sorry this is going to be a bit long!

DS will be 4 this June and so could start kindy next year (at the end of January) although he will be just under the cut off and young for the year. Before we left the UK last October DS had just started preschool because he would be starting school this year in the UK. He did 3 months of preschool before we left for Oz and came on a lot in that time, he'd never been in a group daycare situation before. But since moving to Sydney we haven't been able to get him a preschool place (he's on waiting lists) and for an almost 4 year old he seems a bit behind in some respects. He doesn't really draw or recognise letters, or write his name. He can count up to 10 though.

I've spoken to the school and they are strongly of the opinion that he should be held back a year and started in kindy when he's 5 and a half (rather than 4 and a half), most Australian families hold their children back if they are young for the year apparently. Most of the school's classes are composite, so he could be in a Kindy/Year 1 class with other kids up to the age of 7. My problem is that I'm worried it won't do him any favours to not go to school for another year. We plan to return to the UK in 2/3 years time, and he will have missed 17 months of schooling that he would have had in the UK.

Should I just go against the teacher's advice and enrol him anyway? He has just been offered 2 days a week at preschool starting in late July, which gives him 5/6 months there before school starts. He might be woefully unprepared compared to the other kids in his class. I don't want him to struggle and be unhappy.

To add to the confusion, my job search has been pretty much ruined by my "surprise" pregnancy! We would pay $4500 a year to send him to school, or $140 a week to send him to preschool for 2 days. So obviously school is the much cheaper option next year given I'm not working.

Thanks for reading, if anyone has any advice to offer I'd love to hear it!

I would do what's best for your son.
He might be young for his year but if you are only on a 2/3 year plan then I would do it. As long as it didn't knock his confidence. The teacher will cater for all abilities.
If I was staying in oz long-term I would hold him back, maturity same she peers down the track bit in your situation I would send him.
Congrats on the pregnancy. From another point of view you will need the time with newborn and if your ds was at home more that could bring a lot of other issues!

No advice I'm afraid but I understand your dilemma completely. I will be in the same situation with my late-May DS in a year or two's time, and as you say, almost everyone here seems to delay starting their younguns, especially if they're boys. Which makes it an ongoing cycle, as then people aren't willing to send their late-birthday child to school when they first can in case they are the very youngest in the class of bigger lads... etc.
I am probably staying in Aus though, whereas if you are definitely going back in 2 years' time then that might sway me towards sending him to school next Jan. He'd be going then in the UK anyway, and with your love and support, should be fine. Not sure what would happen on his return to the UK if he had missed out on over a year's worth of school?? Would he struggle to catch up in his year group, or would he be put down a year with a younger class? Both could possibly cause him to lose confidence.
I'm no expert, those are my initial thoughts...

I decided to keep my dd in the same school year as she would be when (if) we return to Canada. right now, she is in Kindergarten but is one of the oldest kids in her year, and there are kids who are more than a full year younger than her. academically she is doing great, and it has been good for her socially as well, as she is the only non Arabic speaking student in her class ( one of three in the school of almost 400)

But if she was at the other end, and was one of the youngest, I would probably have held her back.

I am also a kindergarten teacher and right now I have 2 students who are well below the average of the class, ( eg. They are struggling with letter sounds, while most of the class is reading simple books) and they are struggling, despite me modifying lessons and them getting extra help. I see both of these children struggling academically for the next few years, and that is something I would want my child to avoid.

My cousin moved to Oz and due to the differences in summer vacation and the move, they ended up holding their younger son back from K. He had a late birthday and now is in year 4, and doing great. Their dd was fine staying in the same grade, but she was ready and he was not.

I would probably go with the teachers advice and hold him back if I was you. Apart from academics, their is so much about routine and social skills the other students would have after being in preschool, that it may highlight the differences between the others and him. Plus, if you have a new baby, you may not have the time and energy to spend time every night reviewing the days work and giving him extra help.

Ultimately, you know your child best. Good luck with whatever you decide.

If you are planning to return to the UK n the near future, you should try to ensure that your son is, as much as possible, on a UK child development schedule. The ideas, timetable and structures supporting child development vary hugely from one country to another and it is best to try to keep your child on track for the system he/she is going to be living in for most of his/her childhood.

Thanks for all the advice, it really is a tough decision. DD was in nursery from 6 months and was so obviously ready for school, if it was her it would be an easy decision. But DS on the other hand seems completely not ready yet, he'd struggle I'm sure. But how is he going to get to the point of being ready by simply not going to school for another year. Maybe if things improve financially next year we can send him to preschool for more than 2 days a week and he won't be too held back by a year out. There's things to consider from both sides!

I wouldn't worry about trying to keep up with the UKs school years the whole curriculum seems to be totally different so you are going to end up out of sync anyway Di you may as well Di the right thing by your child.
I have 4 kids with late summer babies and am delighted they are going back a year.

It definitely does seem to be the trend for kids to start school the year they turn 6 where I am in Oz. We faced the same dilemma with dd1, who has an April birthday, 3 years ago and opted to send her early. She is currently repeating Year 2, and whilst there a several factors which led us to make the decision to repeat, I do believe the fact she was one of the youngest by far had a major impact and did affect her confidence. Even now, there are children older than her in her year. DD2 has a June birthday, and after our experience first time round we have opted to keep her in pre-school an extra year.

Your decision is more difficult than ours as you will be heading back to the UK within a fairly short time frame - not easy. Do you think your DS will cope well socially? Our dd is quite young for her age, which really didn't help. I know others who have sent their May and June born children who have had no problems whatsoever. Maybe see how he goes at pre-school and see what his teachers think after a couple of months. Will he get 3 days a year pre-school next year if he doesn't go to school? DD2 does seem to be learning a lot at pre-school, and it is very structured (although there is no formal learning, it is all play-based).

Good luck with the decision.

I would do what is best for your child right now tbh, a struggling start is never good for a child's self confidence. One of the best things about our move to Oz was both my boys going back a year - DS1 because of his birthday, DS2 because I told the school I wanted him to repeat a year. (DS1 started in the UK just after his fourth birthday and struggled from the beginning despite having been to nursery. He was eventually diagnosed as dyslexic in Y6 and I feel so guilty that I let myself be fobbed off for years with the "he's young, he'll catch up" thing).

With DD we had a choice - I was offered either a 2 day a week pre-school, or a kindy place for her at the school the boys attended even though she's a February birthday. We went for pre-school which meant she didn't start kindy until the week before she turned 6 - what a different start, she was happy and thriving and SO ready when she went. It was more expensive though as sibling discount didn't apply to the pre-school.

You say you're worried about him being ready for school if he only does 2 days pre-school for the next year. A lot of the time I think it's just a maturity thing and that extra year makes all the difference. I'm not sure whereabouts you are but what I have noticed here in Sydney is that there is an expecation that kids will have been to pre-school so by the time they hit kindy they are ready for "proper" school learning, it's not a play based curriculum. I appreciate gong back to the UK eventually is a concern but if you send him to kindy and the school "strongly suggests" at the end of that year he repeat - which is quite common if kids are strugging compared to their peers - you won't be any better off.

If it wasn't for going back to uk I would say definitely hold back. My son is in kindy, he is turning 6 in July and he seems to be right in the middle of the age spread.

But, in considering going back, maybe try to find out what stage your ds will be up to rather than thinking years. The kindy work ds is doing sounds very different to what reception children seem to do (only know from mn). He is reading simple books, doing addition, counting up by twos and threes, counting backwards - and it's only the beginning of second term.

And agree with sunny delight that most children around here have been to preschools where they have done letterland and learnt to write their name, at least.

Agree too that learning in Kindergarten was not at all play-based, very much straight into learning to read and write. The leap from kindergarten to Year 1 work was quite big as well. Saying that, I've no experience of the school system in the UK.

My kindergarten was all play based.

One of my friends has just moved to the uk and her dd has gone into year one ( she started prep here in feb) and my friend says she is sooooooo far behind as all of the other children have been at school for over a year. It has made the move more difficult for her. I worry about this as I will be going back with my dds.

I think it really depends on the school you choose. Some will have more play based activities in their early years. I was in a grade one class yesterday with a dressing up box and a home corner and things like that. Some prep classrooms don't have those things. Have you already decided on a school?

My (other) friend says that she feels guilty for not holding her son back and guilty for holding her dd back. We feel guilty whatever we choose to do. She had her dd 'assessed' last year at kinder-something to do with the funding.

My son's childcare just had an evening with speech pathologists,occupational therapists and psychologists talking about EXACTLY this topic.
Some of the basics that came out of it were that to start kind your child MUST be able to count to 20
hold a pencil in pencil grip
be able to draw diagonal lines in both directions/horizontal and vertical lines and be at least working on circles and squares.
I think they also said they should be able to recognise their own name and be working on writing it.
They need to be able to concentrate on tasks (sitting in a chair) for 20 mins at a time.
They need to be able to be able to express themselves clearly.
Understand a short story that is read to them well enough that they can talk to you about it afterwards.
Be emotionally and socially confident enough to deal with the other children - so if he is going to be young for his year he would need to be more mature than average.

The main recommendation was that if you are at all unsure you should see a child-psychologist and have an assessment done.

Just wondering about Prep Vs Kindy as I am a little confused by your terminology OP.

In QLD - kids aged/turning 4 by 30th June go to Kindy, kids aged/turning 5 by 30th June go to Prep.

Kindy is play based - often a five day fortnight (8.30am - 2.30pm).
Prep is school based - five days a week and is the first year of formal schooling - under the new national curriculum it is definitely more than play based.

Of 25 children in my daughter's class - there was only 1 family who held their son back, so it's definitely not common (at our school anyway).

My daughter started prep this year (4y7m). I would, have, in hindsight preferred to hold her back a year, but it's too late now. The prep year is quite "full-on" - she started bringing home reading books from the beginning of the year - we even get them on the weekend.

HTH

I think a lot depends on their size and emotional/social maturity. DS will be just 5 when he starts, so no dilemma really - but there a few kids in his playgroup who will be turning 5 in March/April time, and at least one of those, his mum is considering holding him back until the following year because he lacks emotional maturity.

Actually knowing letter/ numbers etc. doesn't seem to be a problem (DS still doesn't know his either at 4.5 and shows no interest in them) but socially and emotionally he is ready to go next February, and therefore will. He's also on the small size, so being 5 already should be a benefit to him. I can't envisage holding him back until he's 6, even though I could if I wanted to - we'd be climbing the walls if I did!

Have just read Bubbaluv's post as well - seems DS fits those criteria she mentioned so he's ready now - I'm hoping he will have some ability to recognise letters and the rest of his numbers (he can confidently tell 1,2 and 4 and is getting there with 3 but the rest - not yet) and he can count to 20 no problem.

I currently have him in preschool 1 day a week and will move that up to 2 days in June/July - he has activities the other 3 days a week which I'm loath to give up as they help keep me sane as much as anything! - but I could potentially juggle things around and free up Mondays for preschool as well, by September - then he'll be 3days at preschool and nearer the 5 he'll have to get used to for starting primary school next year.

If we were still in the UK, DS would be starting school this September, before his 5th birthday, and I have to say I'm rather glad he's got the extra 6m til Feb before he starts.

I also think that if you are going back to the UK you might be better to start him earlier; but if you were staying here I'd think harder about holding him back.

Hi there
Things in WA are slighty different, but our daughter (a March bday) is on the young end for kindy here, (30 June cutoff). However, kindy is 2 days a week so it's not that onerous. She is thriving, but is the sort of kid who would ALWAYS thrive. In fact all the little ones in her class seem to be thriving, partly due to a phenomenal teacher.

Could you try it out and pull him out if it doesn't work? Wouldn't hurt to send him and see for a couple of weeks? At that age I wouldn't think it would have much impact to announce you are going to do something different for a bit if it doesn't work, and if it does you're all set!

I also don't know how long-term your move is but one thing to consider is that AUssie kids go to uni quite young (often just barely 17) and it can be useful, especially for boys, to start uni older. You meet a lot of Australians who say they wasted their first uni years because they were too immature to handle it. (and as a uni teacher I see this first hand).

In Victoria, prep is the first year of school. You can choose to keep them down in kindergarten if they are born January-April, but you don't automatically get funding to do any more kinder. Kinder is 3-4 year olds in Victoria.

Victoria is not going to 'do' the National Curriculum. It's sticking with VELS and it's own adapted curriculum. Apparently.

iMoniker, in NSW preschool is optional and you can go from age 3. Kindy is the first year of full time proper school and you can go if you turn 5 before 31 July - or the following year. So NSW and Qld have different meanings for the word kindy by the sounds of things! They don't say 'prep' here.

...and you can go if you turn 5 before 31 July - or you can go the following year.

It sounds like op is likely to be in NSW. ACT also has kindy for first year of school but the cut off date is April, so the children are even older.

Sorry for disappearing! I've had a horrible bout of flu mixed with morning sickness and DH working all hours. Ah the joys of pregnancy!

Thank you so much for all the replies. They really have helped me to think about this much less emotionally and more rationally. We are in Sydney by the way, I'm surprised the set up varies between states!

bubbaluv that list has pretty much covered the majority of the things I worry about. At best DS can do one or two of those things, so on that basis he's not ready.

I feel I've let him down horribly as a parent because he can't do most of those things. DD was always keen to count/read/draw but because DS was reluctant I backed off far too readily. I'm hopeful that he will come on leaps and bounds at preschool.

I had a meeting with the preschool manager this week, hopefully DS will start in August. The preschool is still being built at the minute, it's a government run centre. The manager said that his teacher will assess him for school readiness but I'm prepared for him not to go, and really I think that's what's best for him. We've been talking about preschool and he was worried at first but I've pointed out that there will be lots of little boys to play with and he's quite excited now!

In the UK he would be young for the year, i.e a summer baby, so that might soften the blow of him being held back a year when we do go back?

Tricky- fwiw, I have friend, 4 separate families who went to Oz for from one year to up to 4.

The honest truth is every single one of their DCs had to be given additional help to catch up with the English NC when they returned. One, in particular, wasn't 'daft'- went to Oz from 11-14, back to his old UK school (move was supposed to be permanent but didn't work out)- his old teachers who had known him from Y7 pulled out all the stops and he's now off to Oxbridge (won't be too specific!). Younger DCs had to do reading recovery...

I am not being all 'nasty backward Australia'- I lived there for 15 years! DH is Australian, too, but it is a reality that one can be swayed by 'Emigrate To The Sun' style shows where they cite 'Australian education is world class' in the same breath as 'the sun shines a lot more' as if it's a given.

Our local (private) school where we lived in Oz got to the point where it had to overhaul its sports teams from Y6, Y7 etc to U9, U10 etc- which disrupted lessons etc far more- because there was an overwhelming groundswell of complaint from parents who didn't want to see Y5, just 10 year old Tyler going head to head with 12 year old Brody in rugby, Y5; as so many boys were being held back by anxious parents!

Just another view point.

If he can go at 5 and half then I'd advise you to do that. It can be difficult to decide but no parents I've met have ever regretted their decision. Many, but not all, who sent their child regretted it later.

Research shows it has a statistically significant impact at 16. It's research from Scotland regarding exam performance.

ampere - DH (Australian) says they're looking into changing that again to doing junior teams by weight, certainly for rugby style games - even at the same age, children can be vastly different in size and it's still dangerous, so it would be better to have it by weight, even if it's more tricky to administer!

Living here now, I have a healthy scepticism to their "Australia is the best!" attitude - still a bit at their refusal to accept ISOFix seat fittings for carseats! (INTERNATIONAL Standards Organisation) - and DH is getting very pissed off with their "our sportspeople are the best!" blasé attitude too.

Interesting point about sports! I shudder to think of DS playing rugby but it is going to happen. DH played rugby at school in the UK, he had his nose broken a few times and both shoulders torn out of their sockets in separate injuries. Why he wants DS to play is beyond me! DS is tall and thin so not really a rugby build. Maybe he will fill out, or decide he doesn't like rugby

I found the car seat thing very confusing when we got here. We had to ditch our sturdy britax for a seat that felt flimsy in comparison, and it's anchored with lots of extra belt rather than fixed to the car chasis. It's an amazing place, but there are so many quirks. Some of the quarantine rules are based more in hysteria than logic.