Move abroad with baby and toddler or stay 'safe' at home? PART 2!

[sparklyflowers]

Thanks for all the posts on previous thread. Just to re-cap, we're looking for an 'overseas experience' probably for 1-2 years whilst I'm on my career break, with 2 children under 2/3 years old and my husband being able to work anywhere 'from home'. We don't need international schools etc as children too young and would probably come back before this was required. Having looked into Brussels further I think we would be paying a premium for living in an international city when my DH could live anywhere - i.e., we are not being posted there with DH's job as I presume most expats there are?

I know people have said there are few toddler groups etc in France / Spain - I just wondered if this was the case everywhere?

As we would be doing this purely for the experience, and having thought about this further, we were thinking we maybe able to capitalise on the property market downturn, so rent somewhere reasonably priced (as apposed to international city), in perhaps a coastal place / large town to have a more relaxed lifestyle in a picturesque place. I presume in Spain / France etc there are groups in these sort of places? Or maybe not?

What would it be like to have a year or two somewhere like this as a SAHM? I am concerned about the isolation aspect for me mainly! : )

Your personal experience would depend on a number of factors depending on where you go, including:

Local facilities: Are you somewhere with toddler groups, play centres, parks etc so that you and the children can get out rather than being board at home?

Language: Can you speak enough of the language, or can the locals speak enough of yours for you to make friends and become one of the community?

Locals: Are the locals welcoming, friendly and willing to include you?

Your attitude: Are you the type of person who is prepared to make the first move, mix and make some effort to make friends and create a life for yourself?

It can be a very isolating experience, but it can also be great fun and very fulfilling. It depends on you and where you go.

well, you'd find plenty of toddler groups on the costa del sol, but I'm not sure there'd be much point really as they'd all be expats and it's not really like living in spain at all, just a giant expat bubble.

Barcelona
Nice/Toulouse
The Netherlands

What sort of experience are you looking for?

I would say in rural France you will find fewer groups/more of a closed attitude. People tend not to be terribly accepting of outsiders and SAHMs are relatively unusual. If you went on a couple of Fremch parenting websites like magicmaman you might find something in the local sections?

We wouldn't want to be in a city, but I wouldn't want to be too isolated either. I guess having some expats around would be good to make contacts initially as neither of us speak a foreign language at the moment but would be willing to learn - (aware this would take a long time however). I was thinking coastal small town?!! Tell me if this sounds pie in the sky??!!

Am sure its doable.

Many lovely areas along the dutch coast within 30 minutes of a bigger city such as Amsterdam or The Hague which both have sizable international communities.
Everybody is anglofile in the Netherlands, so you would never ever be truly isolated unless you moved to the northestest most part of friesland.
The coastal towns often attract a lot of people during the weekends so there is a always a buzzing village feel with markets, food stalls etc... etc..

You can do day trips into the city for playgroups, a couple of times a week. Driving is easy and trains run very efficiently with times of travel sometimes shorter between 2 cities than between 2 boroughs in London!

the best resource for expats in the netherlands is www.expatica.nl

it sounds like such an amazing opportunity as you can chose to be anywhere!
don't you have dreams of a year in Tuscany? provence?

Not wanting to pour cold water on your plans, but language is the key to becoming part of a community. You need to think seriously about whether it is an expat or a native community you want to become a part of. Rural areas of France, Spain and Germany are not particularly welcoming to those that do not speak the language.

laptopweildingharpy - I know it sounds brill but then when we start to think about it realistically there are concerns as caledula points out but don't want to have regrets if we don't do it. It's just where so you start in deciding. I know living in a rural part of France for a year or 2 sounds idyllic but in reality I guess it would be quite isolating as a SAHM and also challenging re accessing healthcare etc if you can only speak pigeon French.
Unfortunately we're both over analysers, but I do worry this will paralyse us so much we will miss an opportunity we'll later regret.
(a part of me does want to buy a house here too, as we've been renting a bit of a dump for the last 4 1/2 years, which is about 4 years longer than we intended!!).
But also, I know that once we've put the anchor down there that would be it. We could still take 6 months off together though, which would in itself be a massive privaledge. What to do?!!

We moved abroad when my oldest son was 4 and have lived outside the UK for nearly 20 years now.

I speak 4 languages fluently and come from a multicultural family - grew up bilingual so am a bit of a language freak

I would absolutely recommend spending time abroad, your 2 year time scale sounds ideal in many ways, but my point is that you need to be realistic about your expectations.

I don't honestly think the idyllic rural life in a country where you don't speak the language is realistic if you only plan to stay 2 years. My experience is that it takes 5 years to become properly intergrated in a new country and community, particularly in rural areas, and that is if you speak the language and have a fair understanding of the culture.

So the question is what do you want? Might an area with an established expat community give you a better experience?
Discuss with your partner what you both want from the experience. Look into doing a language course and start as soon as you can. This can be a kind of test of your commitment to the whole project because once you have moved your main focus will be language for at least the first 6 months. What strategies will you have to fit into the new community as quickly as possible. How would you cope with isolation, if you are unlucky enough to experience this?

Thanks for your replies. Caledula - I think you're right, for the short term experience (< 5 years), probably having some sort of expat community would be good. Well done on all the languages - very impressive. Mmm lots to think about!