Die Kaffeestube - German and Austrian cyber Kaffee und Kuchen

[admylin]

Kaffeeklatsch for anyone in a German speaking country or interested in German, Kommt herein und setz euch!

Linzer glad you had a good holiday :) We have 5 weeks to wait for ours...

Admylin Newzealand sounds good not desperate - we thought of emigrating there pre-kids but when we went over to check it out we likey Auckland and Chritchurch but didn't much like the small towns, which we found too much like small time America. The scenery is beautiful, we sort of concluded you could get everything great that Newzealand has to offer (the cities, the coasts, the mountains) within Europe, but that they are closer together in Newzealand!

I'm going to the doctor about the strange swelling/ muscle and joint pain today, although I doubt it'll do any good I can't just moan about it without seeing if he has any suggestions - perhaps there is some common thing like potassium deficiency and I could take a vitamin or mineral supplement and solve it. If he just tells me to get more sleep I shall laugh in a hollow fashion...

Nutella hope you are enjoying all your lovely naps

DD's last day of school and DS1's last day of Kindergarten today until the middle of Sept - DD brought home a note saying she didn't need Brotzeit as they would be allowed to pick the apples from the school trees today, and would be having an icecream :) Mustn't forget to pick DS1 up on the dot of 12 today, as they shut early today after the ritual "throwing out" of the school starters!

NoHun / EnglishWoman I certainly don't hate fountain pens; I remember being very proud of mine at school and I even gave DH one as an engagement present even if he never uses it. But I've always loved writing and anything stationery-related. I just think it's a little early for children to start using them only a semester after they've learned to write.

Nutella The DC were quite happy splashing about in the pool for at least half the day, which gave me plenty of time for reading.

admylin Must admit I don't know anything about New Zealand, but I've heard it can be a great place to live. Do you have to pay to use your library? I haven't been to ours for ages, but used to go lots when we lived nearby. It's not worth me paying the annual fee any more, but I think children can borrow books for free during the summer.

We're having a bit of a nightmare with DS's birthday party, which was supposed to be on Friday afternoon but DH has discovered he has to work after all. I texted all the parents last night to say we'd be having it on Thursday instead; one mother rang straight away to say they had too many appointments on Thursday afternoon as they'd kept Friday free for DS's party, which her DD has really been looking forward to, and they can't cancel the appointments now. (Talk about laying on the guilt! Rather annoyingly, she hadn't actually let me know her DD - who's not a close friend of DS's - would be coming even though we sent the invitations out a month ago.)

Another texted back to say that Thursday is leider sehr ungünstig, and I haven't heard from anyone else (apart from a couple I'd spoken to in person). I'm already starting to worry that I won't be able to get hold of everyone and we'll have children turning up on Friday; I might end up having to have a party then too (if it's only a few children, I could probably cope!).

Morning everyone!

Linzer good luck with the birthday parties if I was your DS my first question would definitely be - if there are two parties does that mean two cakes?? :o

Englishwoman I am sorry, but naps are indeed lovely! I don't normally nap and I'm very aware that I probably won't get the chance again in the future!!

The dog (unser Leihhund) came into our bedroom this morning because we managed to get into a discussion about flats at bedtime and stayed up about an extra hour. She went back and forth round the bed to DP's side and back to mine, her nails clattering on the floor the whole time, to try and get a response out of us good job she is too little to jump up she was very relieved when I got up and took her out.

Does "No; in your bed" ever work on children?

Morning, a snore-free night so I feel very refreshed and ausgeschlafen this morning!

Nutella all I can say is, get as many naps as you can NOW and sleep in as often as possible too! Also start reading up about co-sleeping, that's how I got plenty of sleep when I had babies! Are you looking for a bigger flat?

Linzer hope the birthday doesn't turn into birthdays! How many have you got coming?

EnglishWoman hope the doctor can help and he doesn't just say drink/sleep more then come back if there's no improvement.

NoHun agree about the fountain pens, they're lovely - especially the calligraphy ones but not for every day use. Dd loves pens and she even has a feather and nib with pot of ink and a calligraphy set but normal writing is done in pencil or biro.

Just had another text to say that another boy won't be able to come on Thursday as they have a Termin. Not sure whether it's just me but I often think that the Austrians are particularly sparse with their words; I would feel obliged to say something like a doctor's appointment or an appointment at the bank at the very least. Maybe I just explain too much.

Also phoned another father to check whether his DD was coming; he'd tried to phone me last night, but still didn't have a clue what party I was talking about. He was another one who didn't RSVP, but has confirmed (as DS had already told me) that his DD won't be coming.

admylin We have a grand total of two confirmed for Thursday! Seven can't make it and we're still waiting to hear back from five about the new date. At least it will be a nice small party.

DH was so sure he'd be able to take the time off as Austrians don't work on Friday afternoons (only in theory in DH's case), but they have some people coming from Germany for important negotiations that he can't miss. Grr.

Nutella I've decided not to tell any of the other parents that their child can come and play on Friday as it then looks a bit silly that I've had to cancel the party. But we're planning on having two cakes, anyway - we have one of my MIL's Sacher Torten in the freezer and DH has also promised to make a strawberry flan.

We've always been fairly strict about the DC sleeping in their own beds, although DS went through a phase where he'd come into our bed in the very early hours, which was preferable to getting up! He actually came upstairs to us last night, but DH told him to go back to bed and he did. Co-sleeping seems to work well for some people, but not for us - we tried it with DD1 and it was a total nightmare as none of us got any sleep; putting her in a cot in her own room (I hadn't heard of the 6 month guideline at the time) OTOH really helped. The other two slept well in their own beds from the start so we didn't even try to co-sleep with them, although they did sleep in our room for much longer than DD1 did.

Nuttella absolutely enjoy the naps while you can! You never know, you might get one of those babies who have read the text books and nap for hours, or one of those newborns who sleeps all the time (mind you DS2 slept a lot in his first couple of months, the only one of mine who did the sleepy new born thing, but I think he did all the sleeping for his first 2 years in those first months and no longer needs to!) The strict back in your bed does work and is IMO fine and a good idea with children over the age of about 3, once you have confirmed there is no reason for them to be up, or sorted out the reason (nightmare, tummy ache, wet bed, need the toilet...). My older 2 sleep well in their beds thankfully, though they are early risers that is just how they are wired and actually works well with German school days at least! I will get strict with DS2 once he is fully able to understand language and is a bit more logical - 3 is around the age I've found when you can lay down the law gently and realistically expect rules to be accepted and followed consistently.

We don't let the older 2 in our bed (DH hates them being in our bed as they kick him plus he doesn't believe he won't roll on them) but have let all of them in as toddlers in the early hours, plus I have tried co-sleeping with both babies and toddlers separately from DH, in the guest bed. TBH like Linzer co-sleeping hasn't worked well for me either, I wanted to like it but when breast feeding I found they wanted to feed every half hour, or just not to let go at all, all night, if the breast was there on tap, and I can't sleep at all while breast feeding (though I know some people can). Even when I've stopped breast feeding my children are all so wriggly, squirmy, hair-pully, jump-on-your-head-laughing-at3am-y that I get no sleep, and when I do sleep they lie on top of me so I can't move and wake with crippling back ache. Never the less if I can't re-settle DS2 in his cot after 4am I do bring him in with us rather than sit up holding him while he dozes lightly in my arms for the last hour of the night, which is often the only other alternative unless you count leaving him to scream in his cot as an option...

Linzer the party situation sounds a bit of a nightmare! What a pity about those pesky visiting Germans messing up your Friday party plan and leaving it a bit fragmented. I hope your DS's best friends going to make it at least?

The doctor diagnosed a post viral condition and told me to rest ((of course, hahah) and stay out of the sun as this can aggravate it apparently, and take non-inflammatory pain killers and go back for blood tests in 2 weeks if it isn't better. He offered me a stick certificate but I don't think the children accept them...

Oh dear Englishwoman sorry to hear that from the Dr, pity these things can't be sorted out and I know children don't have a pause or quiet setting. Just three years to wait before I can send them back to their own bed... I have a feeling that Daddy will be the soft touch in our house (my parents were the same, I never even bothered trying to disturb mum when she was sleeping) but bad dreams, poorly throats etc were normally Dad's problem in the middle of the night.
Ah, so much fun to come :o I'm not going to wade in on the co-sleeping discussion until I have experienced it. I know we will figure out what works for us and I'm currently open to all ideas.

Linzer I'm the same and sometimes when I write something in German DP edits it down to the bare bones... which I would find too direct in English but hey, that's who they are and how they work :) good luck with the party planning!

Nutella Yes, DH always pares down my e-mails and says "you don't need to tell them that". Re the co-sleeping, definitely try it out and see if it's something that works for you. I always used to hate dummies and swore my DC would never have one, but tried giving all three of them a dummy when I was just desperate for them to go to sleep! None of them would take a dummy, though; I often wonder how Austrian parents do it, as it's very very unusual here to see a baby without a dummy.

EnglishWoman Poor you; hope it clears up soon. It's a shame that children (under a certain age, anyway) just don't understand that we need to rest sometimes. I get irrationally annoyed with DH for just being able to go to bed if he's feeling ill!

One more cancellation and still only three definites, but at least DS's best friend is able to come. Have just remembered that his best friend's mum told me that one number on the KiGa tel. list is wrong but she doesn't have the right number (and I don't know anyone who does). This one boy's mum said he'd probably be able to make it on Friday but that she'd let me know for definite; I still haven't heard from her, so I hope he's not going to just turn up. Changing the date five days beforehand is a good way to make sure that very few children turn up, but I'm not sure it's worth all the guilt and hassle.

A party that DD2 was invited to a few days before we left for Italy was postponed to the following week because the weather forecast was better, so she couldn't go. I bet that boy's mother didn't go through all this guilt.

EnglishWoman it's a shame you can't get a couple of days off. Good luck with trying to rest anyway.

Nutella yes, it's definately best to just go with the flow and wait and see what suits you and your baby! Did you find a midwife yet or is it too early?

Linzer sounds like it's going to be quite an enjoyable party (for you)!

Dd has just covered her bedroom floor in her toys from age 4 to 8. It was her age for collecting tiny toys like littlest pet shop and polly pocket. She's ready to part with them thank goodness. It could still take her allday to finally decide which are the ones worth keeping (for her dc ) and which ones can go in the bin.

Aw, admylin, that is so cute she is thinking of which ones to keep for her DC! :)

LT, sorry to hear about the party dramas.

Get well soon, Attic.

Nutella, glad you are getting some nice naps in!mi was told before DC arrived to bank sleep!

We co-sleep (DS is 21mo) and I absolutely love it. Love the super snuggles, cuddling him, and I do think it gives me more sleep than if he was in his own bed. He seems perfectly happy too, as does DH, so it's win win win here!

I don't hate fountain pens, I just think they are messy, and unless you are doing something fancy, a biro is more suitable for writing with. Or those pretty glittery gel pens.

DD and DS2 (the toddler) have gone to the PIL for the night (DH's suggestion - funny way that only way I get a rest is if I drive for 2 hours to drop the kids at his parents, and will have to do so again to pick them up, but lovely that they are happy to have them and trustworthy and capable...) DS2 didn't seem bothered I was leaving, he was too busy making MIL run around the entire house chasing him as he laughed like a crazed loon! DS1 didn't want to stay and so he came home with me and I just put him to bed - he is behaving a little oddly though, think he is very over-tired (he slept in the car home) and in desperate need of the holiday... Just hope he does as he has promised and comes downstairs with DH tomorrow morning and watches Cars2 or cbeebies, rather than waking me at 5am as a stand in for his brother! He doesn't usually wake in the night so I really hope he sleeps as usual and doesn't play up to fill the void!

Oh forgot to say it was DD's last day of term (finally) and she got a very splendid Zeugnis - apparently she does everything fast and with few errors now, which is a turn around from mid year especially with maths - maths was all positive, not one negative point, and she was really worried about it mid year! In fact the only negatives was that she needs to stop talking when she should be listening - no more comments about being slap dash :) Are the end of year reports normally more positive because they are the ones they have to keep for the "official" record?

NoRun (nice name change :)) I wish I could bank sleep! That would be very handy....

Englishwoman if isn't too impolite of me to ask, how old are your PIL? DP's are 70 and this will be first grandchild... I'm wondering if how they will cope with overnight visits... although older brother and wife (45ish) and cousin and husband (55ish) are also nearby so they'll also be roped in at some point seeing as this is the first child I think it's only fair to get everyone involved :o
Although I also worry I'll be an overprotective mummy who can't bear to let her children go for an evening....

admylin been meaning to ring the midwives I've had recommendations for... I need to stop putting it off!

Nuttella PIL are early 60s - they are in good shape, tbh my own parents couldn't cope with my boys at all, not even for an hour I don't think, certainly not for a night! I would only let my eldest stay over with my parents, because she would behave and can essentially look after herself with an adult on hand as "consultant". The in-laws are still fit enough to be physical with the kids and are also willing to put the kids first while they are with them ... I trust the in-laws with the kids, (though MIL can push my buttons :o )

Still I never left any of the kids with her before they turned 1 - MIL dropped hints every time I saw her after DS2 was about 5 or 6 months about getting him onto a bottle so she could have him, but even if he had been bottle fed I don't think I would have left him before I did tbh (this is his second over night stay with her, the first was in the last school holiday, so June, when he was 13 months).

I've never left them for an evening because the in-laws are the only ones I leave the boys with and its an hour's drive each way, so evening babysitting isn't really practical.

DD (nearly 7) has recently stayed over with BIL and SIL (at SIL's request) for 2 nights, but that was more like a sleep-over - she and SIL have a funny but sweet relationship that's half way between favourite aunt and big sis - they went shopping and SIL painted her nails with glittery sequins in the varnish, and went to visit SIL's friends and stayed up late - SIL is only 22 so more fun than her ancient mummy :) I wouldn't leave the boys with SIL though and I don't think she'd want the work of a loud and wild and constantly hungry nearly 5 year old boy and a non sleeping toddler who needs watching every waking moment!

disclaimer I have* left the kids for an evening - but with DH! I work 1 evening a week in term time, so DH has them then good job as its the only way to ever make him do kids bedtime duty, and even then I usually come home to find the youngest still up If both DH and I are to both have an evening child free, it has to be an overnight stay for the kids.

Did your DD manage to sort all her toys out in the end, admylin? Ever since we've swapped the rooms around, the girls' rooms have been in quite a state; I must really get them to tidy up this afternoon (it would be easier if DH had emptied his old chest of drawers, as DD1 doesn't have much storage space at the moment).

NoRun I tend to mainly use fineliners (bet that's a Denglish word) as they make my handwriting look neater than it does when I use a biro, but without all the hassle of an ink pen.

EnglishWoman Hope you got a good night's sleep. No idea about the reports as we only get grades on ours; DD2's are constant and I haven't noticed any improvement in DD1's end-of-year grades.

Nutella If it's your PIL's first grandchild and they're in reasonably good health, I'm sure it will be fine. My ILs are in their 70s but a) my MIL is in poor health, and b) they've spent the last 18 years helping to bring up SIL's two DC (all in same house), so have - probably understandably - had enough, I think! My FIL is great with the DC and they did have DD1 to stay overnight for a few days recently, although SIL and her family did a lot with her too.

The DC are loving the circus camp this week and complain that I take them too late and pick them up too early! They put on a show yesterday and all did really well; I didn't think there'd be any way that DS would perform in front of an audience, but he was fine. They've gone on a trip to a Reiterhof today, and DS is very excited about seeing the Isländerpferde, which I'm assuming are like Shetland ponies.

I had my tick booster yesterday - suddenly realised that both DD1 and I are due this year; we had to go to the doctor's for DS's prescription anyway, so we had our jabs at the same time - and my arm is aching quite a bit this morning. Not worryingly so, but I'm glad it's my left arm (as I'm right handed).

Must get back to work; I haven't done any for quite a while and am finding it hard to get back into it again. I think I need a coffee to help me concentrate!

NoRun we co-slept and loved it but it did help that dh is from a culture where co-sleeping is the norm.

Linzer yes, dd now has a clear floor, you can actualy see the rug again and all the toys are packed away and she has more room for her creative stuff!

Nutella sound slike you might have a few possibilities for babysitting there. It came as a real shock to me when I had ds that I was going to suddenly never be on my own again! But then I turned into one of those mums who couldn't leave her dc anyway! First night out I had was when I was expecting dc2, at 7 months so couldn't drink and was worried about ds the whole evening!

Off to bake an apple cake, my family is constantly asking for food so today I am going to be prepared and have a cake ready. dd had 3 fried eggs on toast throughout the day yesterday and meals on top of that!

Mmm, apple cake sounds good. I wish I had DC who ate; they're not particularly fussy, just don't eat much. DD1 takes after me and doesn't drink much either - at least, nothing healthy in my case (just tea, coffee and wine, whereas DD1 doesn't drink much full stop).

Quick question if there's anyone about (for a translation I'm doing) - what's the difference between a Kindergarten and a Kindertagesstätte? I know that Kindergarten is often abbreviated to Kita in Germany, which I assume is actually an abbreviation of Kindertagesstätte.

I believe Kindertagesstätte are more like day nurseries for children under the normal age for Kindergarten. Doesn't Kindergarten start at 3 years old? Kindertagesstätte also sometimes have the child for the length of a working day rather than a half day.

Thanks Englishwoman, Linzer and admylin I'd like to think that DP and I can enjoy the odd evening out in the future... alone :o

MIL isn't in great health (FIL tries to keep them a bit active but cycling frightens her and she fell off her e-bike; so I don't see that changing soon) she had a heart bypass and new valve op last year and they are also both going a little deaf.... I think I would worry a lot if we tried to leave them with kids...

But hopefully that is where the rest of the (actually very fit) family come in, there are a couple of sad stories and so even though they don't have kids they are all really excited to have kids arriving in the family.

My Mum lives in France so we'll probably visit her again and I've already told her that she will be spending lots of time with the bebe and she is thrilled :) her other grandchildren are rather spoilt and have never been cuddly so I know she can't wait!

Next scan is on Monday, hurrah. Be happy once it's out of the way and we know everything is good.

I better go, after my lovely nap I have some work to sort for tomorrow and small dog that is staring at me who wants only one thing.

Thanks, Nutella - I translated it as children's day care centre in the end, so that would fit with your explanation. I was just a bit confused by Kita seeming to be an abbreviation for Kindergarten, so I wasn't sure how much of a difference there is. There are Kinderkrippen here for children under KiGa age, although not where we live - I wouldn't be surprised if they don't exist outside Vienna, in fact.

Hope the scan goes well, btw - will you find out what you're having or is it too early to tell?

Good luck with the scan Nuttella

Linzer somebody explained to me once that Kita is an umbrella term for Krippe and Kindergarten, and especially used for places where they have both under one roof (which I think must really only happen in cities/ large towns, as I've never come across it either, but one of DD's friends who moved to Munich goes to a Grundschule with Kindergarten and Krippe all on the same site). I was confused about it because on an ex-pat parents in Munich fb group I use people always refer to "Kita" whereas the Germans I know locally never use the term and always say Kindergarten...

EnglishWoman Ah, that makes sense - I'd always wondered why people abbreviate Kindergarten to Kita (you only ever see Kiga here). The Kindertagesstätte in the text yesterday was attached to a school, or rather it had an Außenstelle (nightmare to translate) with a lunchtime club at a nearby Grundschule.

I've just been out to buy some last few bits and pieces for DS's party this afternoon. We now have five coming (plus one sister, who's also a friend of DD2's), which is quite a good number and manageable enough to take them all out: we've decided to go to the river, have a picnic and let the children splash about in the water.