Belgium MNetters - help re. rented properties

[themotherofallmums]

Hi everyone

We've been on here before about a possible potential move to Brussels and thanks for all your advice so far. I have another few questions about renting properties I wonder if you can help me with please? My questions are these:

1. How easy is it to rent a property in Brussels quickly? If we relocate, we are likely not to have much time between posts, perhaps a week, before we need to be in and starting work. Is it feasible to rent a property in that time in your view?

1. What's the general process? After finding a few potential places on Immoweb, would you make appointments to view a few places with the rental agents and whip round a few? Once you find somewhere, do you take a contract away to read and sign? Do you transfer the deposit on signing?

1. Are the contracts normally in French, not English? How easy/difficult did you find it understanding the contract?

1. We've read how strict the landlords are on condition of the property on leaving. If you're living somewhere long-term however (ie a few years) and raising children in a property, does that stop you from 'relaxing' in your home, do you still put pictures up on the wall and can you do things like install child safety gates etc, even if they're going to take a bit of paint off the wall? Just interested in how/whether this affects how you go about living somewhere.

Many thanks for your help!

1. How easy is it to rent a property in Brussels quickly? If we relocate, we are likely not to have much time between posts, perhaps a week, before we need to be in and starting work. Is it feasible to rent a property in that time in your view?

You have to give 3 months notice here, so you will often find many occpied when looking, that might restrict you a bit. I think even if you find a vacant property, one week is rather optimistic, even 2 weeks. You would really need to be very certain of what you are looking for and where you are looking and how many properties there are available according to your criteria. I'd give it a month. There is an abundance of serviced and non serviced apartments you can rent by the week or month in Brussels, here are cheaper options :

www.bdlf.be/fr/index.html
www.homeinbrussels.be/

1. What's the general process? After finding a few potential places on Immoweb, would you make appointments to view a few places with the rental agents and whip round a few? Once you find somewhere, do you take a contract away to read and sign? Do you transfer the deposit on signing?

Adverts on Immoweb could be placed by agents or directly by owners and you often see the same property with different agents and sometimes with an agent and an owner at the same time. I'd try and avoid agents, but as the majority are with agents, if you really like a property, well then you have to use them! Prices can be quite negotiable, depends on price range and original price, never be scared to ask though. Be wary if an agent says somewhere is rented then immediately tries to show you somewhere else - if the property is with another agent, ask the other agent too. Beware agents which don't want to tell you an address and again often suggest somewhere else. Unless you have reasons you want a fixed 1, 2, 3 year contract , DO NOT ACCEPT ONE, always insist on a 9 year contract, it offers you more protection and it is easier to get out of. The exact contract is up to the owner, but you can view standard contracts online - I would want one as standard as possible. If with an agent, the minute you hand over a deposit or sign a "promise", you have entered into a contract and penalties will apply if you change your mind, so don't sign anything or hand any money over until you are 100% sure. Usual is 1 month's rent to reserve the property for yourself, the agent keeps that as their commission and then from month 2 onwards you pay the landlord direct. If dealing direct with the landlord, it's up to the landlord but I guess most want 1 month's rent too on signing the contract / promise. Expect to have to supply 3-6 months income and proof of identity so it's a good idea to scan your last 6 months salary slips, job contract if transferring job on moving with proof of income, and passport, save all this as PDFs so you can email them quickly to landlords or agents. You will have to have up to 3 months rent deposited in a "blocked" bank account which you get back at the end of the contract with only the signature of landlord, the landlord has to provide proof of identity and signature which you take to your bank with your proof of identity to open the account. The alternative to the blocked account is a guarantee from your Belgian bank, but you will pay for this service, maybe ?50 a year, just guessing, whereas at least with the blocked bank account you earn interest on the blocked money you get to keep. You can see why it will probably take more than a week to finalise contracts, paying rent, checking income, guarantee, before being ready to move.

1. Are the contracts normally in French, not English? How easy/difficult did you find it understanding the contract?

You cannot have a contract in English. If moving to Brussels, the contract can be in Dutch or French, all further correspondence, entry and exit inspections should normally then follow in whichever language you choose. In Vlaams Brabant, the contract must be in Dutch (except Kraainem, Wezembeek perhaps can be in French), in Brabant Wallon in French. You can get a translation of the standard contract but it's not that you sign. If you choose a standard contract, it will be easier to get a translation of it.
www.pim.be/pimfichier/telecharge.html

1. We've read how strict the landlords are on condition of the property on leaving. If you're living somewhere long-term however (ie a few years) and raising children in a property, does that stop you from 'relaxing' in your home, do you still put pictures up on the wall and can you do things like install child safety gates etc, even if they're going to take a bit of paint off the wall? Just interested in how/whether this affects how you go about living somewhere.

If you choose a place which has not been full re-painted for a few years - ask the landlord when last painted and not touched up - then if you make it to the 9 years point where it is expected to be re-painted, you might be a bit more relaxed than if you moved into a place which has just been fully re-painted. On exit, the "expert" will calculate damages and wear and tear according to length of time since last re-painted. I spent hours washing down our walls and removing marks, just for the expert to say she would not take off our deposit a cent for the walls since it had been 8 1/2 years from last re-paint and the wear and tear was acceptable! We hadn't hung anything on the walls at all, for the worry of losing money. In our new place, it's all newly painted and I admit I tell the children constantly not to touch the walls or risk marking the floor, I would be a lot less uptight if the place belonged to me. It is however highly unpredictable what might happen when you leave. We have a colleague who lost ?50 on her deposit, another who lost ?10,000- but the company relocation agent said that the place had been completely trashed. We lost ?1700 and took great care, our friend lost ?5000 a few weeks later. Yes it can make it a bit less relaxing, but at least you know in advance what could go wrong at exit, many people move here knowing nothing and it comes as a great shock just how high the standards can be for exit inspections.

Natation as usual has it pretty much all covered. I have recently moved so a couple of thoughts in no particular order.

I agree with Natation a week will be tight. I found a place within a week of starting my search but that was lucky and I was in Brussels already which helped. I did not find landlords open to too much negotiation on price, especially not those properties which were in nice order and had not been on the market long. My personal perception was that nice keenly priced places disappeared quickly. But you should always try making an offer.

Back to process if you find something empty you have then to factor in getting the contract organised and the rental guarantee in place. If you do not yet have a bank account in Belgium that administrative bit could take longer and it depends to what extent landlord is in a hurry. Many prefer rentals from beginning of a month.

Contracts are standard but there are a few formats so do vary. Ours is in French and easy to understand. If you are used to uk assured shorthold tenancies Belgian law operates very differently so make sure you understand what you are signing.

I put pictures on walls and settle in. It is home for min 3 years after all. Now I recently lost a 2800 of previous rental guarantee but most of that was not paint. My premium tip would be just work on the basis you will lose a minimum 1 months rent on exit even if you are careful. I think the system is sewn up so that even if you have made max effort as I did and Natation did they will find something so after a while your efforts are governed by law of diminishing returns. Oh and try to avoid large expanses of parquet flooring which is what cost us so much.

Looks like DH will be lucky when he leaves. When we took over the house, we signed a nine year contract.
TBH, it wasn't in great nick but we paid for some sort of photographic survey thing. We didn't order it so it must have been the LLs.
He is looking to move out by July 1st. He's given notice and has been told he has to pay a months rent.
Much much much easier than when we left Switzerland.

Motherofallmums, when are you planning to move?
From your last post, you were looking around Parc de la Woluwe?
There is a house currently being completely renovated near where I used to live, 3 beds, garage, large enough garden, near metro, 2 mins walk to playground and shops, 5 minutes walk to 2 good local schools, 10 mins by tram to Parc de la Woluwe or there is a cycle path. On market for 1300 per month, if it's a good renovation, the price is as low as you will get.

Just to add what everyone else said....A 9 year lease is standard and decorating is amortised over that length of time - ie after 9 years it should be considered that the whole place needs redoing at no cost to you. If you leave after say 3 years and any painting needs doing, you should pay 6/9ths of the cost (or get some cheap decorators in yourself first).

If you leave within the first 3 years, you pay a penalty of 3,2 or 1 months rent respectively. It IS possible to find shorter leases but you normally pay a premium and they are much harder to find.

Thanks very much for all your replies and advice. It's certainly given us lots of useful info to think about.

Natation - we're planning to move early summer. By the way, the house you've described being next to 2 good schools - can I ask which schools they are?

Yes - the area we keep looking at is WSP, around Parc de la Woluwe or elsewhere in that commune.

Thanks again. I'm sure we'll be in touch again at some point!

That house has already gone, I know someone looking who contacting the agent and she is next in line for it if the rental falls through on it, it was too much of a bargain I suppose.

There are only 3 schools I really wouldn't consider in WSP out of 11 maternelles. Parc de la Woluwe is very near WSL and Auderghem too. Which side of the Parc as it does make a difference when looking for where to live? You can pm me if you want more precise guidance.

It IS possible to move quickly but I think 2 weeks is probably more realistic. Contracts can begin on either 1st or 15th of the month but your move in date can be flexible.

We did our house search on 19/20 Jan 2010 and started the contract 1st Feb but our Belgian bank account was already open. We only looked at vacant and finished (!) properties which I would recommend if you're looking to move quickly. We didn't find rents that flexible (got 100euros off a big price!) but we saw properties with (I think 3) agents via a relocator. If rent is not flexible, it is worth trying to see if you can get garden maintenance thrown in as then it is one less thing to worry about and one less thing for the landlord to charge you for upon exit! We were charged 500e for cleaning and painting upon exit which I thought was a bit cheeky (it was spotless and we'd done lots of touching up and it was not freshly painted or clean when we moved in) but our relocator told us we'd done really well!!

I wouldn't get so tied down to the house's location being next to a particular school as "catchments" are not in play here. You can approach whichever school you like and often have a good choice within walking distance. So as natation says, you can probably take your pick of the 8 good ones in WSP!

Hi, Can i just jump in on this thread as i will be leaving soon our house in Brussels that we have rented for the last 3 plus years. Our landlady is a very picky woman so i know she will be very difficult to deal with. We have kept the house in good shape bar the odd scratch to a door and wear and tear to the walls. She had ronovated most of the house espically the kitchen. I am so anxious about the exit next July. I plan to do most of the cleaning myself or would i be as well to hire in somebody to help me. As we will have to leave in a day or two after the exit, is there anyway to fight any problems that came up, where are our rights? or is it up to the person who in hired by us or her.

Having witnessed what a professional company does when cleaning before an exit inspection, I would say it might be worth the money to hire a cleaner. You are expected to pull the taps apart and decalcify, have perfectly clean windows, an oven which might be 10 years old but you have to make it look unused, polish the taps, re-varnish the parquet etc etc etc. You could take the upper hand and suggest an expert to the landlord before she imposed one on you, the expert which we had imposed upon us in fact was completely impartial, it really surprised me. These experts do use set formulae for working out costs of "damages" and they can be horrific though - we damaged 1m2 of flooring, we in fact had to pay for 3/9 replacement cost (lived there for 3 out of 9 years) of 15m2, yet the amount allocated would actually have paid for a complete new floor, not 3/9 of it! A fair few colleagues have gone through this exit inspection in the last few years, the bill has varied from 50 euro to 10,000 euro, not always consistent with the level of damage, some experts are tougher than others.

At the end of the exit inspection, we were asked to either accept or not the summary and bill. We had no help from a relocation agent, except during this exit inspection. She advised us to sign as she thought the inspection had been quite fair (she attends them every day in her job so she really WAS the expert at these). I don't know what would have happened if we had argued over the costs. We were told we could either have a reduction made to our security deposit or we could pay the landlord directly and he would then release whole of our security deposit. The landlord preferred the latter option, so we paid him and a few weeks later, we got his signature to release the blocked account with the security deposit in it. I think if you disagree with the exit inspection, you can go through a court process, I guess a little like county court in the UK, I personally would not want that.

On the basis of what I have heard from others, I think you should prepare yourself to lose at least half of your security deposit, don't be surprised if you lose more, be overjoyed if you lose less! We lost about 1/3, that was after a 2 day professional clean - not a cent was lost in the bathroom and kitchen where they concentrated most cleaning, as soon as the expert heard who had done the cleaning, she didn't even both looking too hard at what they had cleaned, turned around to the landlord and asked him to confirm he was in agreement with the standard of cleanliness of their cleaning, so I think the expense of paying for cleaning probably saved us a few bob. I keep a relatively clean house, but their level of cleaning was extraordinary.

Natation - who did you use? I need a company to clean my oven, and will employ a company rather than just my cleaner when we march out.

I need someone to clean my oven too.....

The only thing we got from hubby's employer was an end of cleaning day and relocation agent to walk around during the inspection. I will have to ask the relocation agent who in fact it was. I am going to ask the employer's old relocation company too which we never used.

Motherofall mums, here is what appears another bargain house, only 1350 a month for 4 beds and garage, in a popular family area, near Joli-Bois school, shops, not too far from 44 tram, nearer to 36 bus.

www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.estate.cfm?idbien=3523709&ongletactif=2&jpgnameinp=3523709_1.jpg&xincludedetail=2&xgallery=gallery&mycurrent_section=Rent&xbg=N#ongletphoto

Superspudable, there is a catchment thing in play now, at least for secondary schools. It's only been the past couple of years though.

(There are other factors, but it works on a points system. You get more points for living close to the school.)

I am thinking that when we reach secondary school age, we can try to move next door to reasonable school, and we will be 8/9ths into the deposit swizz thing..... It's a plan, right?

Secondary schools admissions in francophone Belgium are indeed based on partially on geography for those who don't priority from siblings, but it's not a case of child A gets a place because they are 200m from school B whereas child C does not get a place because they live 2km from school B. In fact if school B is the nearest secondary (of type eg Catholic/Communal) to child C's house but school B is the 2nd nearest secondary to child A's house, then although child C lives further away, they get more "points" and more likelihood of a place there than child A. So it's the order of secondary schools from home which is a factor, not distance. Order of primary schools from home too. This year I think there are 7 factors in total which are calculated, each factor is given points, all 7 points multiplied to get a final "index", children with highest indexes get allocated places. Well that's how it is at the moment, the system has been modified slightly for past 3 years, eg now with children of separated parents, the child can choose the parent's address which gives them the highest number of points, which in previous years using mum's or dad's new address could have meant them not getting the school place they desired. I think the system is here to stay, it's certainly better than choosing children according to school reports or camping outside schools.

Portofino, if you play around with the enrolments website, it tells you which are your nearest primaries and secondaries. Moving closer to secondary schools to improve the chance of a place at them will not necessarily be of benefit.

There is also a fondamentale in WSP, Notre Dame des Graces, which operates priority now for children 1.5km from school, also SC de Lindhout and St Michel, so for some fondamentale schools it DOES help to live close by to secure a school place.