In France - to école maternelle or not to école maternelle?

[freshairfanatic]

I'd really welcome some advice from MNers in France.

We live in Strasbourg. DD, bilingual, is almost 3, so we're deciding now on education/childcare from Sept onwards. Our French friends assume we'll send her to école maternelle. There's a Catholic school within 10 minutes' walk - we're not Catholic but hear it's a good school - where we've been offered a place. But, as we come from the UK, we're hesitating over putting her into a big establishment of over 300 children with relatively large classes - around 22 children I think - when she's only 3 and a half. The other option would be to keep her at her current Jardin d'Enfants for another year. It's small, just 22 children in 2 groups which is lovely, but it's mostly free play and seems to do few activities. While that's fine for now, another year would be very different from a year at maternelle - which would be better for her development? If she did stay there another year, then at 4 she could either go to the European School (which starts at 4, equivalent to Reception in UK) or to the second year of maternelle.

I've uncovered a couple of threads on French education generally but couldn't see anything on exactly this point and would really welcome any thoughts/ experience.

Are there other children aged 3-4 at the jardin d'enfants?
What are the financial implications of staying at the jardin d'enfants?
Which is nearer?
Which one is going to mean an easier transition if you decide on European school?
What interaction is there at the maternelle between the different classes? Kept in their own space? Share all one cour or separated? All go to cantine at lunch time at the same time or eat in classrooms (don't know if this is widespread in France sorry, it happens sometimes in Belgium).

Just a few extra questions to ask yourself which might help you make up your mind. I'm thinking especially about the implications if you find your daughter is going to be the only 3-4 year old in the jardin d'enfants, if she is average emotionally / educationally for her age, staying with children a year younger than her might not be a wise move.

DS started maternelle at 3 in a small village school but then moved to a big school (2 classes of 27 per year) when he was 4 (MS). Dd started in September at the big school aged 3. She absolutely loves it and has had no problems settling in. While they do 'work' it's basically more structured play in PS.

The main reason I sent mine at 3 was because dh and I are English so we wanted the kids to have a good grasp of French before they started CP. Dd went to the Maison d'Enfants for a year before school and while she was happy there she's much more content with a more structured day. They have a sleep at lunchtime in cotbed sized bunkbeds (this stops when they go into GS).

We went for a state school though as the Catholic schools are very Catholic (we're CofE) and the state schools just had a nicer atmosphere and did more extra curricular activities.

I'll stop rambling now but feel free to ask anything specific.

Thanks for both replies, useful.

The J d'E is 2-4 but DD would be one of the oldest if she stayed next year. This does worry me especially as we've been a bit disappointed about the level of activities they do there. Cother, I'm interested that your DD enjoys a more structured day and now wonder whether ours would too.

Distance, finance etc aren't significantly different. The Catholic school has Jewish and Muslim pupils so I assume is not all that religious. The PS eat in the canteen but on their own, before the other pupils. They have a sleep afterwards. We met the Directrice, who was lovely, and saw the central hall but not classrooms/teachers. There's a day of portes ouvertes in Feb but to get a place we have to decide by end Jan. I'm sure it's a good school, it's just that it seems huge/regimented for a 3 yr old.

We plan to look at the local state school, also v big, but I think class sizes are large. Another option is the state international school (further away) which has a good reputation. DD would have 25% of classes in English. But I think most other pupils would be starting English for the first time, which could be frustrating for her.

Cother, how did you find changing schools at MS stage? The Catholic school advised us that transition would be harder at 4 than at 3 - I was a bit surprised.

I can't help with your core question OP but I just wanted to say never assume a Catholic school "isn't very religious" just because it has other faiths. A lot of people who can't find schools of their own faith choose Catholic as they would prefer a "strong faith" school, even if it's not their own. Many Muslim parents would prefer their daughters especially to be in what is often a stricter environment.

Hi freshair,

I'm in Strasbourg too and am struggling with the exact same question! My DS turns 3 in September and we're trying to decide between a private jardin d'enfants (bilingual) or the maternelle at the international school. It could all be a moot point, though, as he's not remotely potty trained yet....! I'm veering more towards the jardin d'enfants, though, as the website of the state school depressed me with all their rules and regulations!

But help, I didn't realise one had to make a decision by end of January?! I thought we had until Feb/March to do the inscriptions. Oh help, I'd better get onto it!

Anyway, not much help to you, but wanted to say hi and hope you come to a decision soon.

We had absolutely no problems when ds started the village school at 3 and he was really happy there. We only moved him because we moved house (10 mins up the road) and the two communes weren't prepared to share the expenses. It took him a while to settle into the new school but after a few weeks he had some good friends. We're about to go through it all again with him though as they want to move him up a year so he'll have another change. Grrr.

The thing to remember is that it is normal to have 3 yr olds starting. Sometimes they even start at 2.5 if they are out of nappies. I was so nervous about mine starting that young - they seemed to be barely out of 'babyness' - but all the other children are that age and the day is adapted to accommodate their age.

I can see why they would say that it's harder to start at 4 than at 3. At 4, your dd would be joining an already established class with friendship groups already formed. They also have a curriculum to follow in PS which then follows on into MS. While the work is very basic (painting in straight lines, joining dots, grouping objects, etc) it is a very good grounding for what they go on to do in the other maternelle years.

Also, maternelle isn't obligatory so you can choose how much your child does. When Wil started PS he only did mornings for the first term, then he started full days after Christmas but coming home for lunch and then after Easter he started staying for lunch. It was a good way to ease him in gradually. From my experience the schools aren't too happy for this to happen in MS. Having said that, Sarah started PS fulltime, lunch included, from her first day but she is a much more confident child than her brother and had been doing a couple of full days a week at Maison d'Enfants.

Oh, and you can always inscribe your child and then not take the place up - I inscribed dd to start at the village school but then when we moved I obviously didn't use the place. She was then due to start the big school in Jan but wasn't out of nappies so she stayed at nursery until the September.

We lived in Strasbourg years ago, though my school experiences were in Montpellier.

I was really reluctant to put DS in the maternelle at age 3 as I hated the thought of such a structured environment all day from such a young age (plus I'm from NZ where they start school at 5 so it really did seem very young). Class sizes were about 28 in the local state school and 32 at the Catholic school down the road (with a teaching assistant in each case) - I did also look at the Steiner kindergarten (jardin d'enfants) which only had 12 per class, but I couldn't really deal with some of the more way-out aspects, like not having any books, plus it was a lot more expensive).

In the end though, I realised that literally all the other children his age would be at school, so he would have been starved of contact with his peers. I don't know that there would even have been much available in terms of childcare options for him. I guess for me a lot would depend on how many 3yo would be in your jardin d'enfants.

In the end we sent him to the Catholic school as we felt more comfortable there, but I had a very long talk with the principal about the level of religious instruction and was very open that we aren't Catholic. In fact that side of it was fine, there was really just a tiny amount at Easter and Christmas.

What really helped was that I only put him in for the mornings and then picked him up at lunchtime, gradually building up to 4 afternoons in GS. He did take a few weeks to get used to the maternelle, but he is a pretty sensitive soul and (now 8) has always found change difficult. After that he loved it and the teachers were really great, and it was more play-based than I had expected.

I guess the other aspect is not so much what will be best for development, as how hard it would be to slot into MS without having done PS - though my son had a friend who had been at the Steiner kindergarten (much less structured) and joined in GS - it went ok although he found school pretty boring in comparison and the teachers probably found him a bit too lively!

If you do go for the international school, you could ask how they handle bilingual children. My kids are now at the European School in Luxembourg and the older one has been doing French as his second language since he was 6 - kind of boring for him as he is bilingual already, but they do try to get him involved in helping the others.

All 3 DCs went into Maternelle at 3. In fact DD3 was 2 1/2 when she started (in the "Toute Petite Section") - although only half days, then lunch and nap at a childminder's.

I honestly think they would have been bored and restless had they stayed an extra year in the Crèche. And I don't know many crèches that are allowed to take 4 year olds (except on Wednesdays)!

The Petite Section syllabus is mainly structured, hands-on play in the mornings and a nap, then exercise/games in the afternoon. My DCs all enjoyed it and I wouldn't even consider any other option if I had more kids. It's a great system, IMO!

This is all so helpful - especially the reassurance that it is totally normal for them to start at 3 (which is what seems wierd, coming from UK) and that it's a good system!

bunnyfrance - which jardin d'enfants are you looking at? DD is at Buissoniere
de l'Aar at the moment. Happy to swap notes! I'm not totally sure about the deadlines - the Catholic school has given us til 27 Jan (maybe they just want us to sign up early!) but the international school seems to be Feb.

I asked the J d'E for their view this morning. They said that as J d'E and maternelle are so different it's really up to us. They were confident DD would be ready for maternelle if we wanted but thought she'd be OK where she is for another year as they try to do more for the older kids (I'm not totally convinced by this though). They really stressed the freedom and small size of the J d'E.

Thanks also for the thoughts on Catholic schools. I'll ask them more about what religious instruction they give. Would some religious background at school, balanced with our more secular views at home, help her develop a moral awareness?

Hi freshair,

We're looking at the Playgroup, in the Meinau. DS is still with a childminder, so is not used to being with a big group of kids all day. A jardin d'enfants might be an easier transition for him, along with them maybe being a bit more caring and attentive to him (although I may be deluding myself there!) And he'd get more English exposure there.

The big downside is the location, it's miles away from where we live and work....

Which Catholic school are you looking at, freshair?

I live here and all three of mine have gone to state maternelles. I think about 98% of French children go and it does prepare them for Primary. So whilst official primary starting age is 6 they have all been through the preparation stage at maternal. You may want to think about this if you're staying here. I think the french maternelle system is great and wouldn't hesitate. It's when they get further up the system I start moaning!

What hattymattie said. At 3yo, she'll benefit more from a more structured day/bit of learning at maternelle than from jardin d'enfants. DS went at 2.5 yo and DD will be 3.5 in September. She loves her nursery school, but I can see she would be bored if she stayed there for another year.

Thanks all. After hearing your experience DH and I are becoming clear that maternelle is the way to go.

Also, DH called the European school, which doen't start til 4. Their advice was that if we want to enrol there in the French section next year, a year at Maternelle would be the best preparation.

Bunnyfrance, we're looking at Notre Dame de Sion. It's close to us and some one recommended it. We did think about the Playgroup, which I know takes a wider age range, but ruled it out as too far away. Other options we're considering are the international school or local state maternelle. BTW, in case of interest, DH also found out there's a meeting for prospective parents at the European school at 7pm this Thurs. They suggested we come along even though we wouldn't be inscribing DD this year. It might be a good chance to get some advice on all this stuff.

Honestly I wouldn't see maternelles as school, more an extension of nursery in the UK at that age where they're following the EYFS anyway but a bit more teacher directed. And most British children go to nursery at 3 now there are the funded hours.

I think I'd go for the maternelle in your situation.