MNers with children at French schools...

[Bonsoir]

If you didn't see the documentary L'école à bout de souffle on France 5 on Tuesday evening, I highly recommend you do.

I hadn't seen it - thanks for posting it Bonsoir. Didn't realise quite how tough it can be. DD is in a village primary with a CP class of 5 (she has been put up a year) and is absolutely loving it so we have been insulated I think. But I find supporting her hard enough already. When she is ill, she is expected to work at home so that she is ready to come back into class as soon as she is better! Fine in theory, but I can't always work out what the pictures in her textbooks are in english nevermind french - but in a small school it is okay. And the teacher tells me afterwards that the book is wrong on certain 'phonic' sounds - well how am I meant to know that ffs!!! Is the documentary representative of your experience?

Oh illness was chicken pox - so it worked out she had 8 days worth of school and homework to do with me, before she saw the teacher again. And went back to school in time for the end of term evaluations.

I thought the documentary was highly representative of everything I see and hear about me, yes, though it focused on the problems encountered by lower achievers. I think that the French system throws up plenty of problems for higher achievers too.

I only watched first 30 minutes, but so far what I got is that French school system doesn't deal effectively with lower achievers. All those controls, fostering of compettivness from early age, not enough time to let the kids be creative etc.

I'm not sure I agree that kids have lots of homework, though. DS, in CM1, has about 15 minutes a day plus a project to prepare once every few months.

In what way do you think the system is not great for higher achievers, Bonsoir?

competitiveness

I don't think it stretches higher achievers at all in primary. I say this with the benefit of hindsight - my DSSs are 15 and 17 this year and I have many friends with older children and I have seen many high achieving children get depressed (anorexic, drug-taking etc etc) from under stimulation. And I don't think that the content that my DD has to deal with in CE1 is remotely challenging - the challenge is managing to learn anything at all when the teaching methods are so outdated!

Yes, DS is bored to death and constantly complains that they are not learning anything new, just repeat the material from last year. I have to admit I wasn't too concerned and thought he's complaining just because he likes to voice his displeasure with everyone and everything on every day basis.Hmm.

Mind you, I'm bored looking at his course books and cahiers. When I was 10, we had proper biology, chemistry and physics classes. His 'sciences' is a bit of a joke at the moment. And come to think about it, they don't have much writing going on. I rememeber at this age, we had to write essays all the time, which was good for creativity, expression, language etc. But that was in Poland 20 years ago.

I watched with great interest: not least because one of my neighbour's children was featured. I have littlt experience of the primary system so far. DD is in CE1 but she has autism and is in a "classe d'inclusion" so even though she follows the normal curriculum the pace and the methods are much more flexible. It does worry me very much for my DS. He is only in moyenne section and perfectly bright enough but already at age 4 having the confidence knocked out of him because his "graphisme" is not up to scratch. It strikes me that there is a great deal of "coaching"(cramming) goes on just to get the kids through the required tests and that there is not enough time for them to reflect and engage in what they are being taught at a greater depth. (apologies for poor typing am on an ipad). We have a stagiare with us at the moment and even at 16 I can see his potential as a future employee: bright, studious, "engagé", quick to learn new concepts and able to express why he has chosen to do things in a certain way. And yet he has been allowed by his teachers to drop out of the school system after his brevet in troisième because they felt his maths wasn't good enough for him to pass at Bac so is now sitting, bored stupid, doing a CAP.

I think I'm just really be lucky to be next to a village school with a good teacher and a tiny class. And a teacher who herself questions the system. But I was told that round here it is normal for kids to weekly board, and because DD has been put up a year, she would be expected to weekly board from 9. Apparently its fine because they go with their friends ..... I didn't like the idea of that anyway. But having watched the first part of this, I just couldn't do that to her.

Brioche, I don't think they cater well for some boys, or take account of anyone developing in different things at different rates. One of DD's classmates struggles with the cursive handwriting and gets so frustrated he starts scribbling over the page, poor little chap. My DD for some reason really likes the writing, even though she missed out GS and so had to sit through remedial handwriting lessons twice a week! But things like different heights of 'l,d k' etc compared to 't' does my head in, so I can see why it must be a very frustrating experience for alot of kids. The positive thing for me about France, is that it is seen as a good thing to be doing well at school. The complete opposite of what it was like where I went to school.

winnybella - your DS' complaints/experience sound wearily familiar . Is he in your local public school? And what are you thinking of for collège? IMVHO private is better (more demanding) than public.

Well, I thought I would send him to a public college, but after we had a meeting with the college head who came to DS's school I'm not so sure. The college is split into two parts and the one next to us doesn't have any foreign languages (except English) for the first two years , while the other one has one . She didn't seem to think it would be a problem for those kids who would go the one closer to us

Yes, he's in a public school, we're by Bastille. I just had a look at what they're doing right now and they are just starting fractions -as in colouring 3/4 of a square etc, so very, very basic. So it's lots of controls, learning by rota etc, but at the same time it doesn't seem very challenging, tbh.

DS is bored and not very motivated. At the same time he does a lot of daydreaming in class- whether that's a cause or an effect, I'm not sure. He gets 10/10 and 9/10, with occassional 8/10, without any effort at all. I have to admit to just leaving him to it, but on reflection I might do some stuff at home and see whether that will motivate him a bit. So, yes, perhaps a private college would be a better choice. Are they very expensive?

No, the Catholic private schools are cheap as chips! If you want some ideas, just PM me as I have quite a lot of experience now....

I agree with Bonsoir; private Catholic sous-contrat schools are incredibly cheap. Nothing like private school fees in the UK.

I will PM you later, when I'm finished with my assignment, thanks.

Hmm, I know that you don't have to be Catholic to go to a Catholic college here, but will there be lots of prayers and indoctrination etc?

Well, my take on it is this: our local private sous-contrat school gets excellent results, in L'Express 'Palmares' it is ranked number 2 in our region and 19th nationwide. To me, that's worth some religious indoctrination :)
We are atheists so we chose for our DC to be in the 'religion as philosophy and culture' stream, rather than the religious instruction (with preparation for sacraments) stream but I am surprised by quite how much religion sneaks in....three times a year there are church services and there's quite a lot of 'God is my father and He loves me' material in maternelle.
We explain to the DC that religion is a choice and they can believe if they wish. We don't but they are free to choose. DD1, big fan of musicals, announced she was going to choose to be a Buddhist (she loves The King and I).

As far as our school goes, I do think the children are stretched intellectually and while there is the usual emphasis on handwriting etc., there is a broad range of themes and topics. We supplement with a very academic Wednesday English programme and I feel like it is a good combination.

For info at private college we pay about 100? per month per child. That includes the cantine fees which are about 45? I think.

My children are doing very well in the French system, that may be due to their character, or just luck I don't know.

Worth noting, when check the prices of private schools, be sure to factor in canteen prices. In the first private school my Dd was inm canteen was ?14 per child per day!!!!! I nearly fainted when I discovered that. The canteen cost more per annum than the school fees.

I have just received the formulaire de réinscription for DD for 2012/12 and the canteen has gone up to EUR 15 per day for a ticket occasionnel .

winnybella - my DSSs are Jewish and go to a Catholic school; like lots of families, we prioritise educational standards above almost any other criterion! I may well end up sending DD to the same school, as we are very pleased with it. Places are hard to come by for 6ème in all the decent Catholic schools.

15 euros

Bonsoir, what are the criteria for admission?

We pay c. 300 euros per month with section bilingue. Canteen fees are 7 euros for a ticket occasionnel. Am seriously considering putting DS in the same school as DD for primaire because the level seems fairly high (just from chatting to my friends about what their kids are doing) and the section bilingue is a big plus, obviously. Just need to work out the logistics of getting him there (DD gets taxi paid for by education nationale due to special needs. If I register DS I'll have to start being taxi service...but am really getting put off public at the moment)

Most of the Catholic schools are looking for good all rounders (no lacunes) and nice, well-behaved who are engaged with learning. Lots of them have sibling policies and lots of them like to know who you already know at the school.

Have you heard of the Ecole Massillon? That's near you and has a very good level of English.

Ooh, thanks, Bonsoir, that looks good. What's up with German being the only other language offered in the sixieme? The same as in the public college I thought about sending DS to. Don't most Germans speak perfect English? Wouldn't it be better to learn Chinese or Russian or even Spanish as so many more people speak it?

My god daughter is at secondary school in Paris. I have to bite my tongue often when she talks about school. The pressure, the competitiveness, the old fashioned and sterile curriculum and teaching never cease to amaze and horrify me.

Winnybella
German as a high prestige language is another bit of receibed wisdom in France, along with the unfathomable lioning at the expense of all other subjects of Maths and Physics. German is considered a hard language so bright kids can do it, but thickies can't (sarcasm emoticon). Therefore, "good" schools offer it and it is very much a subtext to schools offering German as première langue vivante, i.e., we have bright kids and great teaching.

Obviously, it is a futile gesture as generally, Germans speak fabulous English so learning English is alwqys going to be more useful in the reql world.