Calling all Belgium-living peoples - current or ex

[Hoopsadazy]

To move or not to move - help please!?!?!?

DH offered job near Charleroi. Salary comparable to one offered in London in different job. We have to make a decision super-quick on which country to go for.

Don't own a house in UK and only have DC (3yrs).

Know Charleroi not good to live in so would need to commute. Not sure whether commute would be better or worse than our London option (1.5 hrs each way).

Jobs and salaries are comparable but nervous over upheaval (although excited too!) and generally taking a risk in times of economic crisis in Europe.

WWYD?

In our area of Brussels, I saw loads of houses during our recent house move. I negotiated down every price but the price of the house we currently live in - instead we got indexation removed from the contract (it's the yearly increase set by officialdom, count on 3 to 4% annual rent increase). The most I negotiated down was 15%. It might be a little harder to negotiate in an area with less rental propertiess. Do bear in mind lots of families live in apartments here, there is usually a park within walking distance, so don't discount this was of living - we almost took a 3 bed ground floor apartment for the 6 of us to live in this Summer, the place was fantastic, really spacious and even had a garden.

Since being on here, DH has been offered different job in london as well! Cos I need more decisions. This job is better job, same pay but longer hours, although some can be done at home. An added madness factor. Each one wants a decision on Monday :( I like the idea of the Belgian life. But does it outweigh a good position?

Have looked at apartments - you're right some of them offer so much more space. I guess a garden is no use during winter anyway.

Hmm. We lived in an apartment for our first 2 years here. It was lovely and spacious with a green area and playground out back. When dd hit 4 she wanted to be out there all the time. Not so easy logistically. So we moved to the suburbs and got a house instead. Even a tiny garden is better than no garden ime.

I had a great time growing up in Belgium and loving in Waterloo. Go for it. My sisters went to St Johns - great school and it has given us healthy assumptions about being able to move abroad, self sufficiency and a taste of adventure.

I think my mum found it hard at first as she had no french and this was in the eighties - before internet and cheap phone calls home, but the biggest issue was dealing with landlords. In order to get back a deposit, you need to complete an "etat de lieu" where the landlord comes around the house and literally deducts money off your deposit for any marks on carpets, any blu tack on walls, anything at all. Perhaps we were unlucky but that was a big stressor - my mum had to really fight or her money back - it was ridiculous. I would take photos of every room the day you move in. I live in Madrid now, we are renting and doing the same....I think when you are a foreigner many landlords just see a juicy fat deposit and the likelihood that you would be moving to back another country as an excuse for robbery.

There's really not that much on the market on Immoweb around Braine l'Alleud / Waterloo, but this house at 900 per month looks interesting. There are 3 schools less than 10 minutes walk away (Sainte Famille, St Jaques and Mont St Jean), a 5 minute 400m walk to the town centre and railway station, 1km away is the sports centre and swimming pool, the local hospital, it really is a good location for everything being nearby to home.

www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3421680&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1

i saw that one but it suspiciously has no pics with it.

still no decisions here. DH is very concerned about the language (he doesn't really know any french) so is worried about getting about ok and getting public transport with announcements, etc. Hard for me to reassure him as am guessing it's harder to learn now we're older than GCSE! I can prob revive my french sufficiently so am less worried. However, it is him who will have to work (altho Eng is official lang of the co).

That house is not with an agent but a private advert, maybe the person hasn't got the hang of uploading photos - it took me 3 hours to put our old house on Immoweb, I'm pretty IT savvy but it took a while trying to get used to the website's photo uploading system. Email the poster of the advert and ask for photos I suppose. I don't know the price of rents in Braine but it seems a bit steep compared to the apartment specs at the same price.

There are plenty of people working here without knowing French. Waterloo/Braine l'Alleud has loads of international families living in these communes - a quick google search gave a non Belgian population of Waterloo at being 25% and a fair number of those will be US/UK/SWE/DAN/NOR due to the English St John's and Scandinavian School in the commune.

There are only 4 public transport companies in Belgium, De Lijn in Dutch speaking Flanders region, STIB in bilingual Brussels region, TEC in French Wallon region and SNCB who run trains throughout the country. Waterloo/Braine l'Alleud and Charleroi are in the Wallon region, the 2 public transport providers are therefore TEC (buses and trams) and SNCB (trains). Both of their websites are in English as well as French and Dutch and German. It shouldn't be too hard to get by. I can hardly speak any Dutch at all but to take the bus to work, crossing from Brussels to Dutch Flanders, it's a de Lijn bus and I've learned to ask for a ticket in Dutch, I've just got used to it. Here are the websites :

www.infotec.be/index.aspx?PageId=631734023237830544&Language=english

www.b-rail.be/main/E/

By the way, if dh is working on a Belgian contract, he should get either a company car or a substantial discount on public transport - a yearly pass from Waterloo to Charleroi would therefore only cost around ?310. Try comparing that to commuting costs to London.

You might find this bus map useful, it shows an express bus service running from Charleroi through Braine l'Alleud, Waterloo, Rhode-St-Genese, Uccle, to the centre of Brussels

www.infotec.be/Files/TECCH/NetPlan/Agglom%C3%A9ration.pdf

So it sounds like the expat community is good there for kids too? we find here that due to commuting and women working these days, it is hard to know the neighbours and having young families around.

There is the [http://www.bctbelgium.com/ BCT] which is WELL worth joining. And I personally know 2 SAHMs in that area, despite not being a SAHM myself. It DOES take effort I think, making new friends as an expat. It is easier if you are not working. I struggled - couldn't get to toddler groups as was working and dd in school. The alternative seemed to be speed dating on a tuesday after work....But have gone to meet lovely people via the BCT/ Brownies/Mumsnet....

I second what Panto says about the BCT. Made loads of friends through it. Also, re school for a three year old, it depends on the school I guess but I never sent my three to school full-time in 1st year maternelle because they always got them to have a longish nap in the relatively short afternoon. Mine gave up their nap in the day way before they were three and I didn't want them to be up all evening so waited until they were in the 2nd year to send them full-time.

Hi Hoopsadazy!
I'm another in Waterloo. (Lozzyblue and I are neighbours of sorts!)

I have been here for 3 years now and have 2 DCs aged 3 and 5.
Waterloo is an excellent place to live and, as everyone else has said, a reasonable commute from Charleroi.
It does have a large international community, many of whom go to the various International schools in the area. St John's is a big American school and there is also the Scandinavian School and a couple of others.
These all have very expensive fees and tend to be only accessible to the very rich and those whose companies pay as part of their package.
Rent in Waterloo is also higher than other areas around it. You pay a premium for its popularity with foreigners and the fame of its name.

Braine L'Alleude, in contrast, and other such areas can offer better value for money in terms of rent etc.

French can be useful, but it is by no means necessary. So long as you have enough to go shopping and order in a menu, you can get by without much more.
I am ashamed that after 3 years here my French is nowhere near as fluent as I thought it would be. The reason is simply that I don't use it. All my friends are foreigners of various nationalities who speak excellent English and I can go for days on end without speaking more than two words of French.
Of course, I'm sure I would use more if my DCs were in local school rather than an English speaking one.

Thanks so much for all your helpl on this. Unfortunately, London has won this time. However, I think that all the discussions on it have helped us sort out in our minds what we want and when. I really appreciate your time and efforts with this thread and I have saved the links for hopefully future use.