Considering move to Singapore - advice please

[sittingonthefence]

DH is Singaporean. DCs have dual nationality. DH's career is now at a point where he could now get a job in Singapore at a similar level and get paid more. The move makes sense in terms of being closer to extended family, whom they currently see only once a year and also DCs growing up with a better sense of their cultural heritage.

My main concern is schooling. DS1 is 6 and just started Year 2. Singaporean schooling appears to be very pressured with children attending extra tuition and 'enrichment' classes just to keep up and I'm worried he will just be made miserable in this sort of system. Also he speaks no Mandarin and so will struggle in the mother tongue classes. We are considering International Schools but the list of them is bewilderingly long. DTs are 4 and so hopefully more adaptable so we have not discounted local schooling for them.

Ideally I would like a small school, possibly only teaching primary level. Tanglin and United World College while being very impressive appear to be absolutely huge. Avondale looks good and I have seen good things about Dover Court but their website is down so the info I'm getting is sparse. I want a school that is nurturing rather than focussing just on academic excellence if you know what I mean. I want to minimise disruption for the DCs as I know whatever we do they are going to be homesick to start with. I don't want them to go for a 'holding school' while I wait for a place at the top schools.

We would not be moving before next summer so we have a little time. DH is going over there in January for Chinese New Year so could do some reccying of schools while he is there.

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

We've been in Singapore for 3.5 years and DD1 is in year 2 at Dover Court - she's been there since nursery year. We chose it because it's nurturing and there is a wonderful caring atmosphere. The headmistress at Dover knows everyone, their ages, parents, siblings etc and greets the school buses every single morning. Teachers are from UK, Aus or S. Africa and so far all have been wonderful. Mandarin is taught from age 3 but no other lessons are taught IN mandarin iyswim.

You would need to think about applying now for next year. You won't get in to UWC for next year and Tanglin has a huge waiting list too, which you can bypass if you pay lots and lots! I know children who are thriving at all three schools but we are very happy with Dover. We were looking for a smaller school with a good atmosphere and feel that we have found just that. If you want to contact Dover about admissions, their number is on the web :65 6775 7664. Be aware that admissions fill up quickly and Chinese New Year might be too late to apply..... We have just been told to apply by February for DD2's nursery place in August 2012 - there would be lots more places available in her year (the lowest year of the school) than others. When we came here, we just applied without visiting, prepared to forfeit the admission fee if we thought it was a terrible school when we arrived.

Thanks acat. MIL has just sent me e-mail mentioning St Joseph's International and Overseas Family School - do you know anything about these? Being Singaporean she doesn't know a lot about international schools but 'friend of a friend' said they were quite good.
Thanks for the tip about needing to apply now. Luckily we do have family there so I think I might ask SIL to do some visiting for us.

PS I have just e-mailed Dover Court for more info. Your description of it is really selling it to me.

I've heard that St Joseph's has a lot of staff who were formerly at UWC, which has a great reputation, but don't know anyone at St J's. Don't know anyone at OFS either. Haven't heard anything bad about any international school tbh, it just happens that most of my friends' children are at Dover, Tanglin or UWC.

You might want to check out the curriculum schools follow too (Dover & Tanglin are British). Your DCs are young but if you end up heading back to the UK at some point in the next 12-13 years, it might become relevant.

Having said that, children often move schools during the first year or two of senior school. We might move DD1 to UWC in time (prob before she's 12/13) as it has a better academic record in senior school than Dover (and DH's company pays so the astronomical fees are not an issue) but won't move before then, plus Dover is building a bigger and better senior school to compete with UWC and Tanglin so given a few years, might not need to move anyway.

See if your sister in law can take photos when she visits (Dover's prospectus was photographed in the 1970s I think!). Dover isn't as "shiny" as other schools that have rock climbing walls and kayaking pools but it has a 25m pool (it's the only school where all children swim every week), a good sports field, IT labs, school hall (DD1 was speaking in assembly with a microphone aged 3 - it's normal and everyone does it!) etc. There are lots of nationalities (no quotas for nationalities like Tanglin) and it's very inclusive. If you've got any questions, let me know. Think I'll email the school and charge commission

ROFL. Yes you should be definitely charging commission! A recommendation from a parent is worth a hundred times more than a shiny website which tries to tell you want you want to hear.

They all say we believe in a supportive and nurturing environment and we believe in celebrating diversity but it doesn't necessarily mean that they do. (Sorry - bit cynical me).

I like the fact that it is very multi-national. It sounds like a place where my DCs can celebrate their mixed heritage.

Thank you so much for your help acat.

Hi I'm in Singapore and DS although not at school yet has a place at St Joseph's for January 2013 (they are changing from UK September - July school year to calendar year). I have friends whose children attend St Joseph's already and really like it. It is smaller than Tanglin & UWC, the facilities are very new as the elementary school only opened in 2008. They also do daily mandarin if that is a consideration for you. Similar to what I have heard about Dover Court it is very inclusive as my friends' dd was quite sick and the head teacher phoned my friend every day to see how she was doing which I thought was a nice touch. If you did consider it you might need to check as last I heard they weren't accepting application from Singapore citizens.

A lot of my neighbours dc's seem to go to OFS (we live quite nearby). I have heard reasonable things about it although 1 neighbour did say he didn't think his dd was being pushed academically. It is however a lot cheaper than some of the other schools if you have to pay!

Thanks Merlion. St Joseph's sounds like a good option too. I did not realise they were changing the academic year though. Will they be following the same term times as Singaporean Schools?

Yes apparently none of the International Schools can accept Singaporeans unless they get special permission from the MoE. I think, or at least hoping, that they do consider children of dual nationalities or children of returning Singaporeans who have spent a long time overseas. Dover Court says most of their Singaporean pupils had special needs.

Hi no they won't change to Singaporean academic calendar until the whole school is on the January to December year so holidays will still be loosely uk based.

As your children have dual nationality they will be OK to go to an International school. Whether or not a place is currently available, I would suggest you put your children's names down for UWC and Tanglin, in case you change your mind later. Places do come up, down the line. Please don't let the size of those two schools concern you. You will find that several other schools act a bit like "holding schools" for those two and, combined with regular turnover of expat families, the student population is transient. In addition, the quality of the schools is variable. Several are privately owned, profit-making businesses. This does not mean that they do not offer a good education, but it does mean that your fees are providing some profit for the owner and are not all ploughed back into the school as they are in an educational trust school.

It is a long way in the future, but have you considered that as your DS has a Singaporean parent, national service will, I believe (and correct me if I am mistaken) be compulsory for him?

Yes Slipshod, national service is another issue for me. DH absolutely hated it but did feel it was also character building - not sure if he is just trying to make himself feel better about it! At the moment DS1 is a sensitive soul who does not cope with harsh talking at all and the thought of him going through boot camp is heart breaking. However he loves schedules and rules so he might like the regimented nature of it. He may well be a lot more resilient when he's older. DT2 (also a boy) is very laid back and while he may cope with being shouted down by a sergeant major better than his brother, unless he changes a lot he will hate all the rules.

We do have the option of dropping Singaporean nationality for the kids before then, if we decide we don't want the boys to do NS. I think we would have to also be no longer resident in Singapore for them not to do it. ( Not quite sure of the rules there). They will have to drop one nationality at 21 anyway as Singapore doesn't allow its adult citizens dual nationality.

I didn't realise that some schools are educational trust and some not. Are UWC and Tanglin the only ones? The problem with those two, apart from the waiting lists, was that they seem to be 10,000SGD a year more expensive than say SJI. We are already going to be dependent on the good will of PILs to get a house, we were hoping to manage the school fees ourselves.

I know what you mean about the transient nature of the student population though. It will be hard for DCs if they finally settle in and make friends, and then the friends leave.

I understand that UWC have changed their admission policy very recently so if you were considering it you might want to take a look. I think it is to try to accept only the top students.

Yes, UWC has changed from waiting lists (people were waiting up to 8 years) to a "first past the post" system with an "opening date" Means that anyone who misses the date or relocates after it will probably have to wait til the next year (which isn't ideal for new arrivals whose kids will end up in a "holding school").

Another point about national service - depending on your DH 's age, he might be called back for reservist training....

Your kds would definitely be called for service.
Even as PR they would be.
Your boys should remain british and on a student visa. Its increasingly frowned upon and i have been told residency when they are adult might become problematic.

Well Dover Court said I can just put applications in for January 2012, for Aug start date and that they would forward application to MoE for approval. Unfortunately SJI have told me they are currently unable to accept any applications from Singapore nationals whether dual or single as MoE have told them they have submitted 'a larger number of applications than the norm' and have to suspend applications until further notice.

Bureaucracy don't you just love it!

I'm a bit :( because firstly its narrowing our options of schools and also I'm worried that this is a sign of MoE tightening a loophole with the intention of closing it.

The whole NS thing has given me a headache too. I was introduced to the wonderful world of Singapore expat forum while I was researching the subject. Apparently I can still legally get my sons out of doing national service if I do a long list of bureaucratic procedures starting at age 11 and finishing with renunciation of citizenship at age 21. I really wish we never bothered to register them with the Singapore ICA now and just kept them British. At the time DH was excited about the 'free money' from the SG government in the form of baby bonuses. Money that we have not been able to spend yet as it has to be for schooling/health etc in Singapore.

Sorry just a bit hacked off about it. MIL is telling us to send the DCs for extra tuition because 'otherwise they will be considered stupid in Singapore'.

Thanks for all your tips everyone

Yes MoE seem to be very against Singaporeans joining international schools at the moment and the change in UWC policy also indicates that. MoE recently announced that all international schools will end up having to relocate to Woodlands in the next 5-6 years as leases become due.

It is definitely the trend. Ransom of success. Too many pr's too many non chinese, they must reajust the biais balance.

The uwc policy also reflects that a vast majority of applicants are indian pr

That's interesting Merlion about the relocations to Woodlands. Has the MOE published this in the papers do you know?

Tanglin are building another new building at the moment- so presumably they aren't moving anywhere anytime soon.

Just heard from a friend living in medway park that they can stay in their black in white which were all due for demolition in the next couple of years.
The site earmarked for the university extension is on standby until 2021.
The schools in buona vista & dover might be safe for now?

Does't tanglin trust own a long lease on the land?

Dover and UWC at Dover have major building projects underway too (and UWC is just completing a huge new campus at Tampines), can't imagine how a move to Woodlands would work. The Sgp govt would be shooting themselves in the foot if they moved the schools north because all expats would live in Johor (where you get 10x more for your money in terms of housing, healthcare, cars, day to day living costs) and zip through the fast pass at the causeway twice a day....

Sitting, don't worry about the level of schooling - DD (at Dover) is the same level as her year 2 peers in the UK. Can't imagine that the Sgp schools are that far off at age 6!

Hi OP. I currently live in Singapore and have some experience of local/ international pre and primary schools. Aside from the international schools mentioned, you may also want to take a look at The Canadian School and Chatsworth East. I also know many expatriate parents whom have sent their children to Tanjong Katong School which has an excellent reputation as a local school and has many expatriate children attending. There are also other local schools that accommodate children up too K2 such as Schoolhouse By the Bay and Odyssey. I believe Eton House has a middle school and possibly a senior school too?

It is true that many of the local children (and expat children) are sent to school at a very early age and have tuition from as young as 2 years old for Mandarin, reading and writing, playing the piano and maths. Many expat children have lessons after school too, but they are mostly sports or Mandarin.

My kids were at Eton House on the East Coast. It's smaller and more like a nice primary you'd find in the UK. We were quite happy with it. Also was impressed with Dover Court and would have been happy to send my kids there. Would consider Canadian School on the East Coast as well and possible Chatsworth. Had a look at OFS and ruled it out immediately, was so disappointed. Tangling was lovely but huge if you're looking for a smaller feel school and you have the waiting lists to deal with. Good luck, it's such a worry.