German schools - help please

[MmeLindor.]

soooooo, it looks as if we are leaving Switzerland soon. DH has to go back to Munich.

My problem is that DD is 10yo so would go into 4. Klasse in Germany - straight into the exams in April to decide if she should go to Gymansium or Realschule.

She speaks German, but is not fluent and I don't think she would manage even to get the pass mark 3.3 that is required for Realschule.

We are thinking about moving to Scotland for 6 mths (me and the dc) and possibly moving over to Germany after the summer hols. Or maybe not at all, depending on DH's job.

So. Question.

If we move back to Germany in summer next year, how will they decide where DD goes? Will she have to do a test, or will they put her into a school based on her UK school results.?

I have googled but not found out what would be likely to happen. Any ideas?

Hi Mmelindor.
Just been thro the 4th class with dd so know all about it.
There isnt one single exam for the gymnasium/realschule for the 4th class - its a cumulative mark they get after all the tests they have throughout the year in the 3 subjects - deutsch, maths, and HSU. They are then given an Übertrittzeugnis at the beginning of May.

The cut off mark for gymnasium was 2.33 and for realschule was 2.66. Think this is Bayern wide.

If there are children who are outside the normal school system - maybe in a private school for example - or they were close to getting the required grade but not quite, then just after the Übertrittzeugnis there is a probeunterricht at the gymnasium/realschule where they are tested as to how they'd manage at those schools.

They can always change schools again at the end of the 5th class again I think, so if your dd was at the hauptschule for a year to get her german better then it wouldnt mean she was at the hauptschule for ever if her grades were good.

Hope that helps. Sounds like an exciting/stressful time for you all in the next few months.

That is good to know.

So we could go to Scotland, and have her sit the Probeunterricht in Spring, in case we want her to transfer back to Germany.

I had a word with her teacher this morning. The maths homework that she was struggling with this week is grade 3 maths. She should be able to do this. Her teacher last year was not good at teaching maths.

that sounds like a way to do it.

To give you some idea about the maths in the 4th class, they were doing adding, subtracting up to 100,000 and mulitplying and dividing for example 93196 by 59 (got dd's maths book in front of me!). They also do lots of problem solving. an example is

"Auf dem Moor-Bauernhof standen in den ersten 150 Tagen des Jahres 25 Milchkuehe. Dann kammen fuer 90 Tage 5 Kuehe dazu. Fuer den Rest des Jahres waren es dann wieder 3 Kuehe weniger. Jede Kuh gibt im Durchschnitt 12L Milch. Wie hoch war der Jahresertrag?".

Amazing what difference a teacher can make to how the kids process maths.

Oh God, she would not manage that, Canella.

When we started in the holidays to do some maths work, I realised how bad she was. We signed her up with Carole Vorderman's Maths Factor and she had to do a test that assessed which level she should start at. She started at a level lower than DS who is two years younger.

This week's homework was similar to this:

50 - ? - 100 - ? - ? - 175 - ?

And she could not do it.

It's a shame it's Munich Mmelindor because in some Bundesländer you don't need an Übertrittzeugnis. I just sent dd to Gymnasium when we returned from UK to Niedersachsen but in Bayern you can't do that. Here even if your dc gets the Hauptschule Empfehlung you can decide to send dc to Gymnasium if you want. Dd has some dc in her class who had Hauptschule Empfehlungen and they're still holding out in year 7 now.

If you're going to be living in Munich for a while then I would try and get your dd into Grundschule there as soon as you can move to get her German going again. If you go to Scotland she'll have lost even more German. As Canella says you can always try to move her up if she starts in Hauptschule in year 5 and she catches up enough they can do tests to go up to Realschule.

If you move to Scotland it'll be difficult to compare grades as the years are different. Ds was in year 5 in Germany but he went into year 6 in UK as that would be his age group, then we came back to Germany and he went into year 6 again whereas he'd have gone into year 7 in UK, very confusing to start comparing. He was ahead in maths in UK but he missed alot of stuff too.

That is interesting, Admylin. Yes, part of the problem is that we have to go to Munich.

I am not keen on going to Munich with DH, simply because it may well be a short stop there. We are hoping that he will be able to move somewhere else within a year. I don't want to put her through the pressure of 4.Klasse right now - she is not a confident learner and I am worried that it would put her off completely.

I know how you feel, it's the not knowing how long you'll be somewhere that is the worst isn't it? I'm in the same boat - still!

I wonder if you'd be allowed to let her re-sit the whole 4th year if you did go to Munich in summer? They might accept to let her do that to catch up seeing as she's been abroad for so long? Good primary schools offer DAZ lessons too to catch up in German.

Why don't you see whether you can put her in the French lycée in Munich? I would have thought that continuing her education in French would be less traumatic, given that you don't know where you are going to be in a year or so.

What about looking at lycée Jean Renoir if it might be a short stop? I don't know how they're fixed for space but after being in francophone Switzerland you might be quite high up the list for entry?

Plus if she's still primaire then they'll have Wednesdays free which gives time for her to concentrate on German in the event that you do stay put.

Or how about trying the European School, whether the French, English or German section? It will be more sympathetic to coming from a multilingual background and different system than will a German school.

We thought about the French school, but I think they are move advanced than the Swiss schools so I think she would struggle a bit there.

And tbh, I don't think we will be able to afford private schools. Housing in Munich is very expensive.

I will be looking into working again, and would likely find that easier in Scotland, where I would have my parents to help with childcare.

Can you not ask your DH's employer for help with school fees? It seems mighty unreasonable for him to move around internationally for his profession but for your children to have to adapt to local education every time.

Oh, the European School looks interesting. And it is not as expensive as a "normal" private school.

I looked for international schools and didn't find that one.

Munich is the home country, so they won't help with school fees. We could have had them in international school here but went for French speaking so that they could learn French.

If we move again, it may not be with the company. We don't want to live in Munich particularly, and that is all they are offering at the moment.

MmeLindor - my sister recently got her three children into the European School in Bergen (NL) despite not being a European Union official or any sort of priority applicant. Her DCs are trilingual, however, and that definitely helped. If you want to talk about the European School, my sister and I are alumnae, too (Luxembourg).

Bonsoir
You have really put the cat amongst the pigeons now. We shall have to have a good think about our plan.

TBH, I think that your DCs are of an age where you need to have a long-term scenario in mind!

It is difficult when we don't know where we will be in the long-term.

We had discounted the French school on financial grounds, but now that I see that the European School would be do-able, we might change our minds.

Do you use English as your home language Mme?
They may find moving to Scotland, than Germany too much to take in such a short time. Do they remember school in Germany at all?

They were never in school in Germany.

We speak German at home, they speak French in school and English with their friends.

DH and I speak German with them, they answer in English. Sometimes I speak English too, it depends. We have never stuck to the OPOL idea.

They are very used to switching between languages, it does not phase them.

The reason we are keen to do the Scotland move, is that DH is not that happy to be going back to Germany, we had hoped for an international job to come up. We thought that continuing schooling in their strongest language would be better. German is their weakest language.

The next move would hopefully mean international school, ie. in English.

There are definitely arguments for schooling them in English while trying to maintain their German and French as far as possible. The trouble with Scotland will be just that - maintaining their other languages. Though it would undoubtedly be good for their English and also give you a good idea of their "level" versus their Anglophone peers.

mmelindor I'm late to this thread but think it would make sense to maybe sent DD to an international school.

Grundschule or Gymnasium in Bavaria is good but tough and I don't think that they might have difficulty in integrating your DD. Also if you decide to send her to a Grundschule you cannot choose the school but you are allocated a school depending on where you will live.

Have PMd you with name of school my DD goes to. They also have one in Munich. Good luck with the move!

Thanks, FritziGreenEyes. Have replied.

MmeLindor - what about DD repeating a year of grundschule - very common here - to get her up to the standard needed?

Have a look at www.toytowngermany.com for more info about schools in the Munich area - loads of expats there and lots of experience/advice.

We had a complete nightmare with grundschule in NRW and as such sent our son to an international school - the right decision for us - but as DE is the home country for DHs job we're having to fund it all ourselves.....

Yes, same situation here. We would have to self-fund.

I thought about having her repeat a year, but that should be the absolute last resort, tbh.