Talk to me about moving to Middle East or other "exotic" but well paid location.

[MmeLindor.]

We are thinking about our next move and are very tempted by the tales of expats who have lived somewhere for 3 - 5 years and earned enough to buy a house back home in that time.

I have been an expat all my adult life, but in Germany/Switzerland. DH has been here in CH with me for 3 years.

He may be moved back to Germany (or elsewhere) within the next year and we have been talking about trying something completely different. There are options in his company to do this, or he would consider moving to a different job. He is in finance.

We are both able to cope with being away from family and friends, like travelling and seeing new places. The DC are pretty open to new ideas. They are trilingual English/German/French.

I would be willing to go anywhere that is not dangerous. I am aware that there is no guarantee, but obviously some countries are more stable than others.

Any ideas?

I have been an expat in China for 3 years and see more and more people being sent back to Europe or moving on to local contracts. You can have a great life in Asia with the right package, but not convinced you can save enough for a house in 3-5 years.

Shanghai
When I say enough for a house, I mean about £100k. Not really to buy a house outright, but to have a good starting point.

Anyone know which headhunters deal with Middle East or Asia?

You could start with Korn-Ferry, one of the largest executive recruitment firms. Their Asia website is here.

Thanks, MrsD. DH has heard of them already. Going to have a good look this weekend

The Boss, PM if you want pointers, I worked as a property agent in Sg up to last year.

Mme Lindt. Good luck. Asia is really a fabulous experience for the whole family if you are open to new experiences.
Jakarta, KL, Bangkok, Shanghai, Beijing, Ho Chi Minh are great places to live. Certainly there is a bit more of a culture shock than in SG/HK but there are still big expat communities and good school, cheaper rents, great base to explore the region and learn about a new culture....And the food and fresh wet markets of course!!!

I would say your aim of saving a tidy little sum is very achievable.

Interesting reading as we have been considering a similar move. We're just back from 4 days in KL where we met up with some friends who have lived there for 2 years, they are not very keen and are moving on shortly. I must admit, although we were only there for 4 days, we took it off our list of possibles. However our friends had spent a few years in Dubai prior to KL and loved it as do other friends. We're considering Dubai, HK and mainland China. Always interesting to hear what others pluses and minuses are.

Sibble
We have met loads of people here (in switzerland) who have raved about Dubai and Singapore. It is part of the reason that we are considering the move.

LWH
Thanks for the tips, will keep all of those places in mind

I never thought I'd consider someplace like china but the expat experience has opened my mind and made me more bold. So perhaps.

Only places I have "rules out" are politically unstable countries or regions. How is Jakarta at the moment? Anyone know?

I agree about KL, I would not want to live there either. I would happily live in Hanoi or Bangkok or mainland China though. I know two people who moved to Sg from Shanghai recently- one loved Shanghai but the other didn't take to it.

It is difficult, isn't it? Obviously we only know a part of the story, what is being reported on the news here but KL seems to be very volatile place, and has been for some time.

I had a friend about 14 or 15 years ago whose brother lived there. She would phone and he would report seeing burning cars outside his apartment building, on a semi-regular basis.

Saving lots of money isn't a given even in somewhere like UAE

You'd have to make sure the package you got offered covered all your housing and school fees. Rents in Dubai and Abu Dhabi are not quite as stratopherically high as they were a couple of years ago but they can still be eyewatering, especially for a reasonably central 'family' villa, plus you usually have to pay for the whole year in advance. School fees are high too and places are hard to come by as the best schools are oversubscribed.

Petrol is much cheaper than in the UK, but most other things are either the same or more expensive

Few expat packages are as generous as they were a few years ago - we have friends who were in Abu Dhabi ten years ago whose entire living expenses (rent, maid, car, school/nursery fees, food shopping, the lot) were covered by his housing allowance - they never touched his salary and in four years had saved enough to buy a farm in Tuscany, but those days are long gone - now you'll be lucky if your housing allowance even covers rent ...

Have to agree with allhail I think the bubble has burst in the ME. I spent over 5 years in KSA and have just returned to UK and DH joining me next month.
It was great at first, DH's package included free house, domestic help, school fees paid and generous travel allowances. Was fabulous at first but gradually things went downhill. Can't go into too many details but lots of employees leaving DH's company very unhappy and the remaining expats were being forced to take on more and more work. New employees recruited to the UK were arriving and finding they were being lied to about what their package was (eg being told they'd get a nice 3 bed villa but ended up sharing a 2 bedroom apartment etc)

DH did earn very good money and we had lovely holidays and paid lump sums off the mortage but I don't think it would be possible to pay off a house entirely in 3 to 5 years.

Please think very carefully before moving to somewhere like the ME, it is not always as exotic as it sounds

Sorry for hijack. Mumofsussex, you're mumoverseas, right? You're back then? How's it been? It's been shit for me, really miss it. OP, that's a downside if you go and love it, you have to come home again....

Thanks for the warning. We would be very cautious about what exactly is being offered.

At present we are considering pretty much anywhere, as long as the pay is reasonable and the job is interesting.

IloveGregoryHouse yes, its MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Thought I'd better name change now I'm back in the real world/UK, didn't want to be accused of representation. Got back here just over a month ago.
Don't get me wrong, I REALLY miss my friends,the routine I had, the sun when it is pissing down with rain here, and my domestic help (definitely am missing him most) and of course I should add my DH who is still there. BUT, I am loving the freedom here. I can get in my car and drive where I want when I want. I don't have to constantly check my watch when out to see if I have time for a coffee and shopping before salah and most importantly the freedom and independance. I can now start thinking about re-starting my career or looking for a new one. I'm sure when it gets to the start of September and all my friends are returning to the sandpit I'll feel a bit sad but mostly (I hope) because I will miss them and I will look foward to DD starting at her new school and both she and I making new friends. Inshallah

I'm so sorry its been shit for you and hope things get better soon x

Shanghaidiva
Would you mind if I PMed you?

Sibble what made you rule out KL? I am moving there with DCs in 2 weeks' time (DH has been there since March working for a Malaysian multinational on a 2-3 yr contract). He has found the climate and absence of arts/culture challenging, as well as the fact the city is designed exclusively with car drivers in mind, but I am not sure the extent to which any of those factors are very different from the other Asian options mentioned on this thread. Interested to know what made Dubai better in your friends' eyes.

agree with mumofsussex, the me is very different to europe your whole life will be different in the me, not least because you will not be able to go outside at all for days on end due to the heat and dust. even if you can't see the dust, its dusty which wll most likely affect yours and dc breathing, so if they like sport or playing in the garden, you might have issues.
also its very expensive and you can spend all your money just leaving for holidays and for the 2-3 month summer break when everyone leaves anyway for ramadam, unless you are unlucky enough not to be able to. people without dc's seem to like the me more.
the finance sectors will be best place to start, maybe linked in, australia is starting to recover, anywhere off shore finance, would have thought geneva v good? goood luck!

I agree with ShanghaiDiva - I'm been here 4 years and it seems to be accelerating - I know of more people re-patriating this summer than ever before (could of course be circumstantial)..... however, there are lots of people coming too! I don't know what their packages look like but our compound is full and I can tell you if I were the one paying the rent I wouldn't be living here!
We save a fair amount living here and have been able to buy a house in the UK for holidays (not outright but big deposit and should be paid off in not v long). I think it also depends on what your lifestyle is. I could happily spend every penny DH earns if I were the kind of person who bought lots of clothes, handbags and went out to eat several times a week! Nor am I the kind of expat who feels they have to live like a local person and immerse themselves in the culture. I'm kind of in between and we still save quite a bit a month (and could save more if we put our minds to it). But you have to remember that you have to live and enjoy it here too - we love it here and it's been worth being away from our families for.
Our major problem with expat life is we can't see how we could possibly give it up!! Just hearing about the rioting in London and the financial crisis makes me even more sure that moving back to the UK is not happening anytime soon (and I'm fine with that).
... now must dash, the ayi has taken my son out for a walk so the driver is taking me to the Sheraton for some meat for dinner (which will be prepared by the time I get back)! expat life is great! ;-) (if you can ignore the heat!)

Shanghai makes a good point- you can save money in these low tax places, but many people don't just because they go insane and start buying Ferraris (yes, plural) on finance the second they touch down. I saw so much of it in Dubai (not so much in HK to be honest), where people came out on a great package, a no tax salary and still managed to piss the whole lot up the wall (of the Al Qasr after the Friday brunch buffet ) and went home penniless, or, even worse, couldnt afford to go home because they'd acclimatised themselves to this profligacy.

I am not saying the OP is a feckless idiot (she certainly doesnt seem it) but you can go with great intentions, but you want to make friends, and maybe you meet people who have a lot of money and it's really easy to get sucked into spending £500 on a night out, no probs.

We are on a local package in Asia. It can be a bit when all our friends have bigger appts as they're on rent+salary (so they get a rent budget and they might as well max it as they dfont get the difference if they dont), and I do have to give myself a reality check on how much we shd be prepared to spend just for a roof over our heads. Dh is on a good salary, so it's worth us being here, but it's amazing how it refocuses you on how many sq ft you really need when it's your own money.

Gosh yes - its the same here. You see expats eating out every night, weekending in 5-stars 2-3 times a month, spending like its going out of fashion. And they are the same ones who say they can't go home because they haven't saved anything and aren't on the property ladder in the UK already, so could never afford a house/mortgage.

And then there are people like us, who still weekend away, but not as often, eat in most nights and cook local food alongside favourites from home, don't really do the club scene, and are generally sensible with spending. But that's because we came here with a financial goal in mind and are determined to meet that goal. And we're not exactly having to scrimp and save to achieve it - just doing things not drinking wine in hotel bars, and not buying clothes here (work/smart type stuff is super expensive) and stocking up in the UK instead when on home leave.

Having just left Korea (and am so "homesick" for it!) I'd recommend looking at the lesser known countries. We've moved to HK and I do think the bubble is bursting on packages, but the local property and schools haven't changed. Some of the other countries will still offer packages to get the skills in or because people are less willing to move there.
Look at tax rates - and things like pension pay backs, these can make a big difference in the long term even if the "package" doesn't include everything you would like
I also think some of the other countries offer more in terms of life experience --- ok so this is totally biased because I'm finding HK just so British compared to Korea and of course there are lots of places here that arent I'm just too new to know them yet!

Very good points.

We have been in Geneva for 3 years, and know people who have done the same. Eating out a lot, spending all their cash. We have lived reasonably well here, we eat out occasionally and have trips away but in B&Bs not in 5 star resorts.

What is it like in Asia then - with regard to food? Can you buy "European" ingredients (I don't mean baked beans and Fray and Bentos pies). I cook mainly from scratch and rarely use packaged food but would I find similar cuts of meat, similar veg? At present I am particularly interested in Shanghai.

You can get most things, but it's a question of price. Even in HK which is probably the most westernised bit of Asia, European food is expensive because it's all imported, yet imported in in relatively small quantities as only c.1% of the HK population is going to include (eg)brie on their shopping list.

Also, if you're prepared to eat Chinese chicken, then cheap. If you want Australian hormone free then expensive. You get my drift. Similarly, I buy all Thai/Filipino veg, but if you want dutch, then it's literally 6x the price.

As the Boss says, the best thing is to mix local and western ingredients. Also, this is where an amah/helper comes in handy as they know where to shop, what to buy, and what to make with it.