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Moving to Brussels and after advice please!!

40 replies

SalM · 04/05/2011 16:02

Hi all, my DH has been offered a job in Brussels and we're trying to decide whether to go for it so any advice you could give would be gratefully received! He would be based out of an office in Louvain la Nueve which I understand is a little out of central Brussels. I have a dd (2yrs 6 mths) and am expecting another baby 4th October. I have many questions!

I'm just wondering where I would start looking for pre-school / nursery care for my 2 year old and what the available / recommended options are.

With regards to rental properties / location, what is the best website to use for this and which areas would you recommend based on the location of the office? Would we be better living somewhere more central and commuting (I guess DH would be going in opposite direction of the rush hour traffic?) or staying closer to Louvain la Neuve? I would ideally like somewhere not too quiet but I would like a house with a garden, not an apartment.

Giving birth to baby number 2! Has anyone experience of this in Belgium and any advice you can give?

I currently work 4 days a week from home and I will be able to continue working for the same company when we move...I assume that althought I would be paid by a UK company I would need to pay Belgian VAT?

Sorry for so many questions, I have ALOT on my mind! Thanks.

OP posts:
natation · 04/05/2011 16:49

Louvain-La-Neuve is about 30km from the centre of Brussels, it would be a minimum of 30 minutes commute. It is a new town, lots of cycle paths, pedestrian walkways. French is the only official language there.

I would do research of where husband's colleagues live, if the office has many international colleagues, ask around to see if the majority live local or not. I am guessing there are not a whole lot of English speakers in this area, compared to the population you find in French dominated East Brussels and the Flemish (Dutch) speaking communes east of Brussels. It really is a personal choice, if you want to live close to work, in a more "Belgian French" town or if you are prepared to have a commute for a more international population. The housing costs will be considerably less in LLN than in the Brussels area.

Another possibility for location is along the E411 motorway from LLN up to east Brussels - Wavre, Bierges, Limal, Rixensart, Genval all French speaking, or Overijse, Tervuren, Hoeillart which are Dutch speaking. There is a local French school which offers teaching time in English a few hours a week, extra fees apply I think no more than 4k per year, about 40% are native English speakers. It's called Ecole le Verseau. It is unique in Belgium in teaching majority French and a few hours of English. I'd personally live as close as possible to this school, given work in LLN, but in fact a great proportion of children commute from Brussels to go this school. HOWEVER, chances are the school will have no places, so if basing a house on going to this school, secure the school place first before looking for a house. The train line runs through Hoeillart, Genval, Rixensart to LLN, so this is another consideration for commuting options. Most employeurs pay all or most public transportation costs.

A third option I owuld consider is east Brussels area : Watermael-Boitsfort, Auderghem, Woluwe St Pierre, Woluwe St Lambert, just outside and officially in Flanders but French speaking are Wezembeek-Oppem and Kraainem. These areas are very very popular with expats, housing can be very expensive here, a 4 bed can easily cost 2k per month for example.

You will find houses with gardens everywhere, even in central Brussels, so do not worry about that.

Your biggest problem, especially in Brussels, when it comes to schooling is finding a place. Most children are enrolled in school between 6 months and 18 months old. School starts at 2 1/2 and most children start school at this age, so you would be looking for a place when most places are already taken.

If your husband comes under the Belgian tax system, it would be financially better to transfer to Belgian child benefit - it took me 18 months to do this and got a whopping great back-pay. Your husband can claim any child expenses under his tax declaration and pay less tax.

As to your employment paid from the UK, you will still have to declare it to the Belgian Tax authorities, I am guessing you COULD transfer your national insurance contributions to the Belgian system. If you would have paid more being paid by a Belgian company, the Belgian tax system would ask for you to pay additional tax on your UK income.

Finally, you will find nearly every house for rent in Belgium advertised on www.immoweb.be
A good idea is to get to know the post codes of areas very quickly and make great use of google mapping.

scaryteacher · 04/05/2011 18:45

I don't declare my UK income to the Belgian tax authorities as I pay tax on it in UK, same for dh. I understood this was the agreement and the Inland Revenue certainly seems to think so.

natation · 04/05/2011 18:55

No it's the law scaryteacher, you MUST declare world-wide income on your tax form. It's different to paying tax on it. Even UK bank account interest must be declared, as well as Belgian accounts. HM Revenue will confirim this. No idea what happens to dependents of those on special ID cards or with diplomatic status.

There is a bilateral agreement between Belgium and the UK, but it does still mean for ordinary people, you have to declare UK origin income still to Belgium.

We get separate tax forms for us, hubby has a special classification. I declare income from the UK and Belgium on the same form, pay tax on UK income, under tax limit for Belgian tax (hopefully). He declares only his UK income on his form, with a covering letter, pays no tax.

And having only just received my tax rebate from Belgium, about to fill in the next form.... just love doing this LOL

Longtime · 04/05/2011 21:17

Yes scary there is a dual tax treaty here. I think it works somewhere along the lines of you pay tax in the UK, you tell the Belgian authorities what you've earned/paid tax on and if you would have paid more tax here they can claim it!!!

SalM, I live in Auderghem. Not as popular with expats or as expensive as some of the other communes. The commute out is nothing compared to the commute in so your dh wouldn't have a problem going towards LLN. However, it really depends on where you end up sending your dcs to school. A friend of mine lives in Auderghem and her dcs went to Le Verseau. It wasn't so dreadful dropping them off but then coming back after drop-off in with the traffic into Brussels was a nightmare!

Also, I had all three of my dcs here at Edith Cavell hospital in Uccle. I have no experience of any other country to compare it to but I was very well looked after. My gynaecologist delivered my babies (the hospital midwife assists) and also monitored me very closely during my pregnancies (which were pretty crap to be honest).

Oh, one more thing. LLN is a big student town. Not sure if that should having any bearing on your decision or not but thought I'd tell you anyway.

scaryteacher · 04/05/2011 21:50

We usually send the tax forms back with a certificate from the appropriate office that dh is HM Forces and that I don't work here, and we get a nil to pay each year. Presumably under the Status Of Forces Agreement (special ID card) that is all kosher. I don't earn enough in the UK to pay tax as I get a refund each year, and the rental income is also tax free (rent less than expenses on house).

Longtime · 04/05/2011 22:09

Oh yes HM Forces have a special status.

Longtime · 04/05/2011 22:10

How are you doing by the way scary?

natation · 05/05/2011 08:29

The only definitive answer about declaring UK income in your circumstance would come from the Belgian Tax authorities, HM Revenue can made an educated guess but since it is the Belgian tax rules which count, it's the Belgian Tax authorities which would have a definitive answer. The personal allowance here is around 6k per year, plus children would increase this allowance. So if you don't pay tax in the UK because of being under the personal limit, chances are you wouldn't either under the Belgian tax system either, it's just a matter of declaring income.

Colleagues of husband all get nil returns as they are UK tax payers. One with children even got given several hundred ??? in tax refund due to having children, even though he had no Belgian income.

Superspudable · 05/05/2011 13:54

I live in Auderghem, but on the south side of the E411 motorway which runs from Brussels to Louvain-la-neuve. My next door neighbour works in LLN and it takes here around 20 minutes. I would not recommend living anywhere which means you have to go on the Ring (R0) motorway to get to the E411 as the Ring is just gridlocked...

I also second natation's recommendation of immoweb but you need to know commune postcodes (use google) - 1160 is Auderghem, 1170 is Watermael-Boitsfort, 1150 is Woluwe-Saint-Pierre. Those are all on the Eastern side of Brussels. LLN itself is a new town, with a shopping mall, cinema, Tintin museum and university but not much else. It really depends what you're after!

You will find creches all over, www.one.be should have listings of them, but my kids went straight into school. Children generally attend preschool (ecole maternelle in French) from 2.5 years. Our school which I would highly recommend, accepts them from the month they turn 2.5 so you don't have to wait for the next term or anything but each school may be different. Generally need to be potty trained but some will tolerate a lesser extent of this.

No idea on the VAT I'm afraid, nor giving birth in Belgium! There is a great expat families association though called the BCT, organises coffee mornings, ante natal classes, playgroups etc. www.bctbelgium.com

SalM · 05/05/2011 14:47

Thanks for all your messages, they've been very helpful. We're trying to get a better picture of the VAT we'd have to pay as that will ultimately sway our decision. My boss certainly wont give me a pay rise to compensate for the increase in Taxes I may have to pay!

OP posts:
natation · 05/05/2011 15:04

VAT in the UK is 20% and top rate in Belgium is 21%. Don't quite understand how it is connected to work....are you self-employed?

You are better off getting some (admittedly often inaccurate) information from www.xpats.com about how to get yourself based in Belgium but paid from the UK.

Longtime · 05/05/2011 15:57

Superspudable, you must be really close to me :)

Superspudable · 05/05/2011 17:05

I am between Bd du Souverain and Chaussee de Wavre on the forest side :)

Longtime · 05/05/2011 18:37

The E411 runs along the back of my house (nice!) and I'm right near Beaulieu metro station.

scaryteacher · 05/05/2011 21:28

Longtime - stitches out tomorrow and I can at last have a shower!

Natation - 'definitive' advice on tax position given by the Support unit for NATO, EUMS etc, so I assume they know what they're doing.

Longtime · 09/05/2011 23:32

Hi Scary, hope the stitches removal went okay. DS1 currently in hospital recovering from an emergency appendectomy last night.

scaryteacher · 12/05/2011 16:51

Stitch removal went well, but scar itches like buggery. Hope ds1 is OK; is he in UK or here?

Portofino · 18/05/2011 08:37

Oh just seen this one. Hope you are OK Scaryteacher, and that DS1 is too, Longtime!

monkeybumsmum · 18/05/2011 10:01

Oh gosh Longtime, hope your ds is okay...

Scary hope you're okay too!

SalM I would definately agree with natation, and would highly recommend Ecole Le Verseau. My ds (4) goes there, and it is wonderful. I do think you need to live near the school though, it would make life a lot easier, although I do know of one parent who lived in Brussels and commuted.
With regard to having your baby, depending on where you end up living I would consider UZ Leuven (Gasthuisberg) hospital. It's in Leuven and everybody who works there speaks english. The antenatal care is excellent, and the midwives are great.

Must dash as need to collect ds from school!

Longtime · 18/05/2011 10:23

Superspud, not far from the maison communale?

Monkey and Porto, ds1 is fine thank you. Went back for his post-op check-up yesterday and everything's good.

Superspudable · 18/05/2011 10:25

No not really - right on the southern edge, near AXA / formerly Royal Belge on Bd du Souverain....

Longtime · 18/05/2011 10:34

Oh that bit of Chaussée de Wavre (was thinking more of the bit nearer to me). I was on that side of Bd du Souverain last night dropping off a friend who lives on rue J-B Vannypen. I see from the other thread you're moving. Are you leaving Brussels? Sorry for the hijack OP.

Superspudable · 18/05/2011 12:02

Sorry it's prob my fault for confusing you - Chaussee de Wavre is a long and "confused" road!! Your friend is not a million miles from me...
We're off to Paris...cue excited but scared emoticon!
Sorry for the hijack too OP!

Longtime · 19/05/2011 00:00

Oooh Paris, exciting! So we'll still see you on the Living Overseas boards then. Good luck!

ffionsmummy · 20/05/2011 15:33

Hi SalM

Just seen your post and wanted to reply as it sounds like we're in a similar situation, we're also due to relocate to Belgium soon for dh's job ( was meant to be July but now looking more like August) dd is 2 years 3 months and i'm also expecting, due in November so expecting to deliver in Belgium too. Have you got any further with your decision about what to do? We haven't been househunting yet but hoping to do so in the next month or so and likely to look east of Brussels, I think!! Would be lovely to hear how your plans are going as all our friends here think we are mad!!