Please come and talk to me about Singapore

[imopop]

Hi Have three DC 7,2 and 8 months. Am thinking about possible relocation with DH's job. Need info on healthcare, schools, housing and cost of living. Also things to do
with the kids. Anything and everything really do to with Singapore.
Many thanks

Wow, huge topic!!!

This is our third posting to Singapore and we've been here for 3 years now, DDs aged 6 and 2 (DD2 was born here and I moved 6 months pregnant).

Pros: Singapore is safe, clean and advanced, you can get everything you need. Kids swim every day, education system is good and healthcare is so advanced it's untrue. Income tax is relatively low.

Cons: It's super-expensive!!! Also sheltered, humid, a bit draconian and censorship is alive and well. You can get camp fever (it's the size of the Isle of Wight) but we have budget airlines to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodia etc etc.

About costs, get health / dental insurance, return flights to the UK, housing, utilities, schooling etc etc (ie as much as you can) included in the salary package.

We pay about GBP 7000 a month to live in a 4 bed house in a condo in a good family / residential location. You can pay less, houses tend to be cheaper than condos (but we prefer condos as there are other kids / mums around all the time). A good place to start is here www.propertyguru.com.sg/

Electricity, water and services run to about GBP400 a month and we use little air con.

Shopping is expensive too - I pay about GBP 250 a month for food, supplies, nappies etc, not including wine, which starts at about GBP 10 a bottle!

DD1 goes to a British school (she's in P1) and we pay GBP3000 a term, DD2 is in childcare 3 mornings a week for about GBP 300 a month.

You can live much cheaper than us, live further out, take HDB (council) housing for a few hundred dollars a month, shop at the markets rather than the supermarkets etc, depends on your lifestyle and priorities.

You might also want to consider having live-in help (we don't but we're in the minority of our friends), this runs to GBP 230 a month salary, plus insurance, food etc and my friends reckon this runs to about GBP 450 a month total.

There's loads to do with the kids, the zoo, lots of soft play, bike riding and roller skating along the coastal parks, beaches, science centres, museums with sections aimed at kids, parks, gardens, lots of shows, aquarium etc etc.

To be honest, it's one of my favourite places (if you can get past the censorship / death penalty stuff) and of the 7 countries I've lived in, it's the top place I would consider raising our kids. They have more freedom than they would have in the UK and access to a huge range of experiences. Both swim like fish, are learning Mandarin and our eldest knows lots about different Asian cultures from first hand experience.

If you've got any questions, just ask.

Lolly-Thank you so much for taking the time to write back. Much appreciated and extremely useful. Its great to hear first hand. We live in Jersey channel islands at the mo after relocating with DH's job from the UK so used to cabin fever!!You sound very experienced at relocating. We would not move without the expat package. May come back to you with further questions if ok. Many thanks.

Have a look on expatsingapore for more info, also there was a thread ten days ago on this which has some good info in- though I think Lolly has summed it all up.

There are big waiting lists for the most popular schools (SAS, UWC, TTS) so get in ASAP if you want one of these.

I think Lolly has summed it up too , but GBP400 per month on utilities and you don't use much aircon? thats really high! We live in a 4bed condo and only use aircon to sleep in 2 rooms, and our utilities bill averages about GBP200. Sorry also have to disagree that condos are more expensive...we pay SGD5000 for our very large (albeit older) condo in Holland Village.

Agree re the food though and everything else, loads to do with the kids, easy to travel to neighbouring countries...

Thanks for your advice empire and papooshka. Need to gather as much info as poss. Can I ask what the supermarkets are like in relation to quality and ease of use with kids. Jersey was about 20 years behind until the recent arrival of Waitrose.Thanks again

Hi
We are also relocating to singpore as well in a few months and this information has been great - any further information you can provide would be most helpful too!

I have a 15 month old and would like as much information as possible!

Just a quick hello, lolly has summed it up pretty well.

Just wanted to add, for more info, do an advanced search on singapore in the living overseas thread, we have covered a lot of ground into detail in the last couple of years!

good luck!

You need to ensure you have a strong and solid relationship with your husband. I have heard and known of many relationships to break up when couples have relocated to Singapore/Asia.

imopop certainly they are not as good as UK supermarkets (I sadly really enjoy trips to the supermarket when we are at home visiting) but Cold Storage not bad - even stocks some Waitrose stuff and Carrefour is cheaper and both have a wide range. Fairprice is also ok. As most things are imported supermarkets are generally expensive especially for 'western' goods and if you want organic food then that is even more $$$. You can save by shopping at the wet markets.

For kids you can find most things you would need to buy in the supermarkets. One thing that I still find strange (we've been here 4 years now) is that shops don't normally open till 11am but supermarkets generally open at 9am. If your youngest is on formula (when you get here) you might want to check that you can get the same brand.

Conquita, if a man is into exploiting human misery and paying for sex, he can find it anywhere. That was a gross racial generalisation and not helpful at all.

Conquita - After 10 years of a rock solid marriage I can safely say I dont think it will be a problem!
Merlion - Thank you for for your advice all helps me build a picture.
Laptop - I totally agree!Would not move half across the globe if I had a crap marriage!

conquita has a point though. Being a bigger fish in a small pond can go to the guys heads a bit and many egos soar in Singapore compared to say back in a town in the UK. There is much more opportunity to party and they can be overloaded with lots of pretty young things showing an interest - often the men love it and don't want to leave in the end much more than the wives.

I am afraid Conquita has got a point. I have seen many marriages here fail, including couples who have been together over twenty years. There are many temptations for the men. I am not talking about prostitutes but about young girls who see Western men as extremely wealthy and a good catch even if they have got an ex-wife.

Back to the OP's questions though- Coldstorage is fine and Marketplace is even better for groceries. It can be a bit hit or miss regarding what is in stock; you might see Branston (for example) in stock then it will all be sold and there isn't any more for two months. I have learned to get stuff when I see it.

There is a fab grocer in Ion- imagine Harrods food hall in miniature and you get the idea. Jones the grocer is equally good- but very expensive. They have a cheese room where you can get wonderful rare cheeses. They even sell fresh clotted cream.

Meat other than chicken is extremely pricey. You will weep at the price of a leg of lamb. There are a couple of good butchers eg Swiss Butcher at Dempsey, and you can order all your Christmas meat or party meat there.

The French chocolatier on Portsdown Road is worth a visit. You can watch the chocolate being made through the window if you go in the cold room. Lovely fresh breads are available at Picotin (French restaurant and bakery) near Turf City.

For cheap and cheerful food use the local wetmarkets- fruit and meat are much cheaper. Just watch out you are not being charged more than the locals as an ang moh face can increase the prices.

Re the supermarkets, I think everyone initially goes to Cold Storage/Marketplace and then you realise the massive markups they are putting on products, so you end up at Carrefour or Giant or Fairprice, who maybe don't have the same range of 'expat' food but are SO much cheaper for your basics....

Just to give you an idea of how expensive food is here, Lurpak Spreadable Butter (the small one) is about $7 here...thats GBP3.50 approx.....in the UK I think the big one is about GBP1.00.....

Theres also an Aussie butcher at Holland Village that is good.

There's also QB foods at Jurong, which is a great butcher, especially for beef. Prices are lower than any other butcher or supermarket I've found and great quality too. Just waiting for my freezer to clear a bit, then I'll stock up

agree about Cold Storage etc being more expensive but just bought a large 500g tub of Lurpak yesterday for 2.80 GBP in Sainsburys.

It is more expensive here but you also forget that prices are rising all the time in the UK too. I've been here 3 years and whenever I go back I'm amazed at how expensive the UK is in terms of food - not as much as Singapore but much more than when I left and what I compare Singapore too.

At least fuel is cheaper here

Can I ask about buying. We are moving to Singapore in next coulee of years. We have lived in Brunei and Malaysia before but always rented.

We want to stay and buy a 2 bed flat . What price would tbat be as we get told very different prices? I am aware of the 2 tier housing system

7000 rent seems really high. We could live in a club suite at the ritz Carlton for less but tier are only two of us.

• GIANT ... disgusting fresh food and pretty much al from china.

• Carrefour is best for french cheese&yogurt, french brands for biscuits/tinned foods, wine and a few decently priced deli items.Nothing fancy though. STEER CLEAR of the fruit and veg (spoil in 24h and often from china). The fishmonger is knowledgeable and they always have a good selection. The have french frozen veg and things like quiche, specialty breads etc...

• Fairprice is great for the big monthly shopping ie:cleaning stuff/nappies/drinks etc...I found it good for dry goods such as quality whole peeled tomatoes.

They carry the same range of organic beans/pulses etc... as other chains and the same range of pesticide free fruit and veg as coldstorage. Just before I left (6 months ago) they introduced packed meat from culina which I found of good quality and hormone free chicken (sakura brand), the latter being quite pricey. The big fairprice at bukit timah plaza is really good.

• Coldstorage is best as a one stop shop (the bigger ones)

• marketplace honestly does not store anything that you won't find above appart from waitrose organic frozen veg.

Its just handy as you'll probably spend too much time wasting time in Tanglin mall

NOW lat but not least, a great place to shop for fresh meat/fish and veg are the japanese supermarkets (meidi-ya in river valley & Isetan on orchard). Really not more expensive if you go for targeted shopping. You get small but choice portions of dewy fresh tasty food, impecably cut and packaged.
They also are the best place for healthy school snacks ( zillions of options of sweet and savory rice crackers etc...) and have very good affordable deli counters (if you are familiar with the food that is!)

imopop, I can not emphasize enough how one of your first priority is school BTW

Gottakeepchanging, prices have now soared just above previous peak at end 2007.

For many reasons, i think buying is still a good perspective in some instances. Its practically interest free at the moment but you now need a 30% deposit.

Price really depends on the location and type of product you are after.
You are not eligible to buy/rent HDB unless you are a permanent resident or citizen.

We woukd have about 1 million GBp I think- cash. Less if we chose to keep house in tbe uk. We currently earn 250 k between us but dh woukd earn more in Singapore.

that's a very reasonable budget for a 2 bedroom in a good location.
Do you know singapore at all, any idea where you'd want to be?
(I used to work as an agent so feel free to PM if you want pointers)

Yes we have been many times and were there for Christmas. Dh is currently out in hk for a few weeks and it has made him decide that it's def going to be Singapore.

Somewhere not too far from business district I think. We want city living. We aim to be away most weekends.

Last time we lived in Asia was in the late 90s recession. We were amazed at how affluent Singapore and kl were this time.

We just moved to HK and this prompted us to buy in Sg before we left.
HK has just raised the minimum deposit threshold to 50%!
Sg is draining so much new money from the region, really it still makes sense to buy.
I would definitely recommend New built, although it still makes sense to buy older and bigger in very primelocations (tanglin/grange/paterson hill/leonie hill)