Possible move to Brussels - schools and languages

[wildstrawberryplace]

How tough would it be on a 5/6/7 year old to go to a French speaking school?

We would be there for 1-2 years, and have been looking at renting in Wezembeek-Oppem area (or similar suburb).

DH's company will foot the bill for BSB but I don't want DC to only mix with expats or live in a bubble - is that likely with BSB?

Also, surely it would be better if they were immersed in French/Flemish (not sure if it is even called that!) so that they don't feel alienated outside school?

On the other hand, it may be better for their education if they continue their schooling in English surely?

Seem to have been a lot of posts about Brussels recently!

Language I would base on family circumstances and where you are living. Wezembeek is 80% French speaking but a few bits, like the strip sandwiched into Tervuren, are far more Dutch. So if a French area, go for French, if Dutch, go for Dutch. Then add variables like if the family have prior language of either language, or where you are likely to end up living after a few years.

BSB are starting a bilingual class for children born September 1 2006 to August 31 2007 in September 2011. You are still likely to be living in the expat bubble at BSB, unless you make an effort not to be. Internatoinal Montessori have 5 "bilingual" schools in the area too, but I must warn you a minority of the pupils speak French and/or English, more likely to find Germans, Finns, Swedes at these schools, not conducive to achieving bilingualism.

Do not worry in the slightest about a 5-7 year old picking up either Dutch or French.

It's a personal choice whether you choose English or not. Bear in mind this will limit somewhat integration and taking advantage of the many many extra-curricular activities available in Dutch and French in the area.

Mine went to BSB. It is a bubble. But I made some good friends there. The DDs picked up a lot of Dutch from the tv - enough to understand, speak a bit and do a holiday "stage" in Dutch. Dutch is easier for an English speaker to pick up quickly than Dutch - DD1, who was 7 when we left, could read quite a bit in Dutch too. (Unhelpfully, we're now living in Paris!!)

BSB is "nice and safe" and familiar - things like Brownies and ballet at the school, but all in English.

I guess it's up to you!

Having been in Brussels for 26 years now with a 22 year old ds (plus two otherdcs), I have been asked this question many, many times. Given the ages of your children, I agree with natation that they will most probably have no real problems picking up the language (though you shouldn't expect it be instant - some children pick it up quicker than others but it takes a while to build up a vocabularly so that they can happily communicate however bright the child). However, given the short amount of time you are going to be here I would be hesitant to subject your dcs to a situation where they cannot communicate and may hence struggle to make friends at first/feel frustrated. They would just be getting to grips with it/making friends and then you would be on the move again. Also, if you are not going to keep up the French/Dutch after your 1-2 years here, they will forget it and you may feel then that the downsides you faced at first were just not worth it.

The other thing you would have to remember for the five year old is that in the local system children do not start proper school until they are six. If you stay for one year and he/she spends that in 3rd year kindergarten, she will be behind when she goes back to school in the UK (if that is where you're going).

My ds finished his schooling (last two years) in BSB and made far more international friends than he ever did in the local school so whilst they might not make Belgian friends, they will make friends with children from all over the world (they have 70 different nationalities at BSB).

I hear the BSB is an excellent school. My nephews and niece go there and my SIL works there

How quick to pick up a language at 5-7? Well I can only go on personal experience and that of other children in our 5 year olds class who have arrived without French. Our then 6 year old had the advantage of one other English speaking girl in her clas when she started in the September and also an advantage of 2 years learning to read and write in English, I found she was able to transfer some of these skills into learning to read and write in French, plus I'm sure the fact that my French is fairly fluent helped. She did not really speak much until around Christmas time, by Easter, 8 months on, she was pretty fluent grammatically and was lacking somewhat in vocabulary, by the next September, she was almost indistinguishable with her French first language piers. The children in our 5 year olds class have perhaps been a bit slower, but they have all been reasonable fluent within a year to 18 months.

Bit of a naughty advert for BSB's bilingual French / English classes. I'mo not 100% certain, but I believe only children with French or English mother tongue are eligible for the bilingual classes, making it a better environment for second language acquisition, all curriculum in both languages too 50/50. There are 3 classes at reception level, 2 English 1 bilingual.
www.britishschool.be/index.php?pid=769

Lots of food for thought there, thanks. All very interesting info.

Longtime your point about the short duration of our stay (relatively speaking) is a good one. I think I would feel differently if it were a permanent move, and would want more integratration for them. However, it does look like BSB might be the best option as it means less "stress" for them. Particularly as DH will probably be travelling a lot with his job, often being away during the week. Perhaps trying to maintain as much normality as possible would be sensible (brownies etc).

natation we have a few friends of different nationalities in our current home, and I think their children have picked up English very quickly - less than an academic year to quite happily understand and play with English kids. They seem to learn as much from each other as from school.

To be fair on the other international schools accessible from Wezembeek, there is also St Paul's Vossem, BJAB, BISB, ISB, BEPS, International Montessori (5), Acacia and BICS last 3 bilingual).

Rainbows/ Beavers/Brownies/Cubs, you would have to sign up very quickly, I'd do it before arriving. The number of Rainbows packs has reduced by one this year, the packs are all held on the premises of BSB, St Paul's and St Anthony's RC church in Kraainem.

There are 3 dancing teachers who take classes in the area in English, do ballet, disco, tap, jazz.

It's quite possible to take part in sports in Dutch or French without understanding. I know lots of people who swim, play tennis, hockey etc without understanding, many teachers speak in English too, it's easier if it's a sport which does not require team interaction eg swimming is easier than football!
Local activities are rarely expensive, tennis is the most expensive I've found at 15 euro per hour lesson. I pay less than 1 euro an hour for swimming.

Yes, we'll be looking at other schools too, had only been focusing on BSB as it was suggested to us by DH's boss and we've only just started looking.

I wouldn't go for the Montessori. My friend's daughter went there for four years and learned almost no French at all. She was very, very behind when she went back to UK as well, and had to have private coaching to get her up to scratch in both English and Maths.

Hi,

We moved here in September with a 5 and 2 1/2 yr for a 2 year period. I didn't want to put eldest DD into a local French speaking school as she is quite shy, was already learning to read and write in English and I felt it was too short a period for the pros of being in a french-speaking environment to outweigh the cons.

We considered quite a few schools and decided on the international montessori, which we love. It's billingual which the other options aren't, although I think it's well worth looking into BSB if they're starting billingual classes). DD's maths has come on so well (she's doing long division of thousand units) and she is now reading books aimed at 7 year olds. Am not saying that to be a show-off :o just that I wanted to make the point that as with all schools, it depends on the child. She's also learning lots about the world, environment and has formed some good friendships with children from all around the world (our Montessori is a good mix).

As for the French, if this is your main concern then go for the state system. My DD understands quite a bit of French already but isn't forming sentances yet. We're making an effort with her as I speak French and we have French TV channels . DD is starting ballet soon (local, french speaking but then most of the words are french anyway!).Some parents send their kids to private French lessons.

On the 'expat bubble', others with kids in the state systems will be better placed to advise but I think it's a bit inevitable tbh. However, the bubble can be international if you want it to be.

Hope that's useful - v happy to speak if you'd like. Good luck!

We arrived over a year ago with a 3 and 1/2 and 2 year old. They did the remainder of the academic year at International Montessori and then entered the Belgian system in September 2010.

It really depends what you want out of the move for your children and how definite your time period is - might you get extended? Do you speak languages and is that important to you? Are you interested in meeting people from different backgrounds?

My kids were very happy at the Montessori but we were mainly self-funded so obviously save a wedge of cash now they're in the state system. It's very homely and for the extrovert, enthusiastic and keen to learn child, they should thrive. It will NOT make them fluent in French - especially as English mother tongue speakers - but they had a good aural understanding.

Absolutely no regrets about entering the Belgian system - also homely, and DS1 (5 in may) is pretty fluent now, all the neighbours comment how good he is!. DS2 has good vocab too and is now talking lots of French sentences. Hopefully it will stay with them for life! The teachers say that foreign kids start contributing in French after about 4 months typically. There are still kids of different backgrounds - I think 7 nationalities in DS1's class! Lots of trips and opportunities for parents to get involved too.

Definite bubble about BSB and some of it's parents, but it does probably provide the easiest transition back to the UK if that is your priority. W-O is nice and slightly suburban/small town but feels a long way from Brussels (and my friends from Montessori days who live there rarely go into Brussels :( )

Definitely recommend BCT for meeting people...

Hope that helps!

BSB mums never went into Brussels, either, Spud. Organising a night out was a nightmare, because there were only about three restaurants that they would go to - one in Tervuren, one in W-O and one in Stockel, which provoked a lot of umming and ahhing. Never managed to organise a night out in Brussels - most of them never went there at all, and never went into Leuven either. Shopping from Carrefour in Tervuren or for the really brave, the big one in Kraainem. Clothes all came from Boden as far as I could see. Boden was like school uniform in the Infant School at BSB.

I really didn't want that when I moved to Paris, which is why we opted for the city and not Croissy or Le Vesinet or St Germain en Laye.

Mrs S - your post really tickled me - I love Mini Boden as much as the next middle-class mum but please don't say you live in Brussels if you stay in your bubble and don't go near!

For a real feel of the city and keeping green on your doorstep (we have the foret de soignes right behind our culdesac but can walk to the metro into town) - I would choose Auderghem / Watermael-Boitsfort / Ixelles to live in anyday!

Sorry to hijack OP but would appreciate your opinion MrsSchadenfreude on my Paris dilemma - Preschools in Paris - EAB Monceau full - merci beaucoup!

Some fantastic advice there, about both schools and language and expat bubble, I recognise it all!

It's quite possible to even create your own expat/international bubble at a local French school too - our 5 year old's French Belgian class has 21 children and there are 14 nationalities. At BSB, it is pretty much the same with around half the children at infant level from non anglophone backgrounds, many local French schools in the area are around half non francophones. I do try to make an extra effort to pick Belgian friends at our local school, if only because I am terrible at saying goodbye and there is quite q high turnover among the non native francophones as they move on.

It is quite possible to live a "parallel English speking" life in the area. Apart from Brownies and dancing, there is Little Gym which seems enormously popular with the BSB/St Paul's/Montessori communities, warning it is incredibly expensive, I believe something like 20 euro per hour, whereas in French or Dutch, you could do the same activity for 5 euro per hour. I do wonder if the major benefit is that the anglophone mums can socialise during the Little Gym sessions - it's in Wezembeek-Oppem near to Delhaize if you are interested.

If you are keen to have easy access to the centre of Brussels, the 39 tram runs through part of the commune, connecting with the metro at Stockel and Montgomery. Or alternatively, the streets near to Stockel metro still in the commune which are 20-25 minutes by metro from the city centre - we live in this area and go maybe once or twice a month into the city centre. I think if I lived in Tervuren, I would be more likely to gravitate towards Leuven.

Just one last note, Wezembeek-Oppem is in parts quite rural, one part is in Stockel and next to the metro, one part is virtually in Tervuren etc. As for facilities for children, it's a mixed bag and not as much as you will find in WSP or Tervuren for example. There is no swimming pool but you get reduced admission to WSP's pool called Sportcity. There is only ONE public playground, right in the north of the commune. On the positive side, there is a sports hall in the "Tervuren" area which does very cheap children's after-school activities in French. There is the BCT meeting room in the same building as a great community centre called Imagine, again with after-school activities in French.

Oh and I hear fantastic things of La Fermette maternelle school in W-O - but I think it can be difficult to get into...

Natation makes good points about W-O - all ring true with me. Not sure if BCT will use imagine forever either...lots of concern about its accessibility / practicality unfortunately :-/

La Fermette should have plenty of space, I've never heard anyone turned away for lack of space there, classes in maternelle around 20 mark and the max is usually kept to around 25. It is possibly the school with the highest percentage of anglophones at maternelle level in the area. Pretty popular with anglohphones - have only ever heard 2 criticisms of the school which is not bad really, 1 is that there is no gymnasium in the school and the children have to get bused to the local sports hall so they don't do perhaps so many gym sessions as others schools and 2 the lovely playground with climbinq equipment etc is reserved only for acceuil and 1e maternelle, a bit frustrating I imagine if you are in 2e or 3e. Best buildings of any French speaking school in the area, not surprising as it is funded by the Flemish community and not the French one! One possble drawback for a 5 or 6 year old going into primaire in Kraainem or Wezembeek-Oppem French schools is that these schools do not get any extra funding for a "French second language" teacher as the children are all supposed to be French speakers (you have to lie on the application form if you do not speak French at home). But no certainty that the Brussels French schools will retain their funding for French second language support, as the French government has just passed a decree called "Robin Hood" which proposes robbing schools in east Brussels of funding and giving it to schools in poorer areas.

All useful, thanks. I speak three languages myself and I think it's a good thing to have going on, but I wouldn't go out of my way to push it on DC.

To add something to the mix, we've now decided that we would prefer to live in Ixelles or similar for the reasons Superspudable mentioned. We'd been thinking of W-O because I had friend who lived there about 5 years ago, and she was happy and the house and area was "nice". However, it appears that there are some really great loft style apartments in the city with close access to green spaces and loads of space, which is more our cup of tea as a family.

I've been looking at BEPS - any experience?

I second everything said about where to live on here. I used to teach French to some of the mums at BSB and it's true that a lot of them seemed a bit scared to go into Brussels! I live in Auderghem, right next to a metro stop. I wouldn't want to be much further out than here. Watermael-Boitsfort's pretty green - I really like it there.

Just a word about Ixelles, it can be pretty bad for parking. We spent the afternoon with friends there and they can spend ages looking for a place to park when they come home from work. They have one garage space (rented, round the corner from their house) but two cars.

Spud, which commune are you in?

Sorry, no experience of BEPS.

I'd look at BJAB and ISB if Ixelles as some parts are very accessible for both schools, hmm BEPS.

Ixelles however is a very varied commune, very suburban in the south end, very city and built-up in the north end. St Gilles, Forest, north Uccle and Etterbeek and some parts of Brussels 1000, Schaerbeek, WSL and even WSP also have loft-style apartments with close access to green spaces. I'd get hold of a good one-page map, a public transport map and make use of google mapping when looking at accommodation. Immoweb descriptions are often rather far fetched - when it says 5 minutes to XXX it often means 5 minutes if you were travelling at over 100kms an hour by car!!! Biggest downside to living closer to the city centre is that you will struggle to find parking on the street and few apartments have garages big enough to fit in a family car. Some bits of Ixelles are also much more expensive than Wezembeek-Oppem.

No experience on BEPS I'm afraid.

I'm in Auderghem and think it's quite convenient, can be quiet and green but also has easy access to BXL too.

Another tip on google maps - when you do "get directions" you can click on the train to see how far it is by public transport which I use all the time.

Parking can be a problem in parts of Ixelles, but some parts it is fine, particularly on the border with Watermael-Boitsfort near Bois de la Cambre. Hopefully loft apartment developers have thought of that new invention the car!

The other downside to a loft-style apartment is that if it is part of a converted "maison de maitre", there's a chance there is no lift which you may find quite hard with young children. Some apartment block residents might be happy for you to leave a pushchair downstairs, but no guarantees.

Would you not be interested in a period house? There are loads in WSL/WSP/Etterbeek for 2k or less giving you plenty of space, usually a walled garden and a garage plus parking space. These areas are as little as 10 minutes to the centre by metro. BJAB and BISB are the most convenient of the international schools for these areas, schools of less than 200 children and again around 50% anglophones.

In Ixelles, the local schooling is very much sought after / not sought after at all, the sought after schools do their admissions almost a year.

Yes we'd thought of the parking issue. We've seen a few apartments which are ground floor with parking, yes they are £££ (where's that euro sign again ) but we'll get a fair amount of that covered as part of DH's remuneration. Also seen some nicely renovated period townhouses a little further out with courtyard gardens and parking which we'd be interested in too. They actually seem very reasonable compared to similar places in Paris for example!

Will look into the other central areas you all mentioned, as well as the schools.

Feeling more positive now we've decided to go central! You've been a real help, I feel that our research is now off on the right foot, so thanks for your input.

Sounds like you are getting good advice. Not much I can add really, as my dd was 2 when we moved and we plan to stay for the duration, so it was easy to make the decision to put her in a local school - she started Maternelle at 2.5 and was quiet for about 6 months - since then she appears to be effectively blingual.

That said, in my neighbourhood, non of the children are at the same schools and are a mix of nationalities/mother tongues. They all play happily together outside. There is French/Dutch TV of course - it is amazing how quickly young children absorb things.

Dd has a place at the Brownies in Kraainem starting after Easter. I think she has several nearly 10 yos leaving in the Summer so there may well be spaces for September. I can let you have her details if you are interested. Rainbows is now only held at BSB and St Pauls I think.

Little Gym is wonderful for the kids, but as someone already mentioned, it costs a fortune and is a bit cliquey. I always used to feel underdressed, and disappeared off to do my shopping at Delhaize rather than mingle.

Also, feel free to PM me if you would like to be added to our local email list. We organise get togethers quite regularly.

And look out for the "Another one moving to Brussels" thread - this is linked to on the Local page or you'll find it by scrolling down the list in Living Overseas - there is lots of info in there about schools/areas etc.