Anyone move from London to Cape Town?

[AbsDuCroissant]

I'm originally from SA, but Jo'burg rather than Cape Town, and currently live in London. DP (French) and I have both been seriously considering leaving the UK and moving to, 1st choice, Cape Town, and I was wondering if anyone has done this? It seems much more common to go the other way around

Our reasoning is this - both of us are pretty miserable in London. Career wise, it's going amazingly, but everything else is getting us down - the constant winter (will it ever end?!), the expense of pretty much everything (food accomodation), the hassle of commuting etc. etc. To both of us, it seems that our lives are just a constant hamsters wheel of tubes, work, staying inside because it's too cold to go out, being ill and we'd like a life that is a bit more balanced. Things like, going to the beach on the weekend, actually seeing the sun once in a while.

Being South African (with many relatives still there), I'm well aware of all the crime problems, the fact that you do need to pay for pretty much all medical and dental bills and provide for private pension, pay when doing bank transactions etc. We don't have any DCs (yet), so don't need to consider schools. In all likelihood, it would only be for a couple of years, as DP's mom would be very upset if he was that far away long term.

Any views?

I grew up in England but my dad is originally from Cape Town & I still have family there. I lived there for a couple of terms as a young child & for a year as an adult.

One of my cousins has actually just moved back from London to Cape Town, seems to be going well for her, she has found a job but her DH is still not working. They live very near her mum & she does the childcare for her.

I myself would certainly move to CT or South Africa short term, but I would not plan on settling there longterm. I totally agree that the weather is appealing, it would be nice to get outdoors more. However, the traffic is APPALLING if you are trying to commute in & out of the city (say even just the city centre to Rhondebosch never mind if you are trying to get out to Hout Bay or Kommetjie). House prices are not cheap nor is the cost of living particularly cheap - cheaper than London of course. My concern longer term would be over raising my children there, which is probably partly a reaction to the culture of my family there than a problem with SA in general IYSIM. But I would totally do it for a few years, & would in fact love to.

I grew up in SA but have been back in the UK now for nearly eighteen years.

Tbh I think you need to look at your reasoning for wanting to leave the UK, but weigh that up against the benefits of staying here, because there are pros and cons to both.

On the plus side the summers are a bonus, the outdoor lifestyle can be fantastic, and the Cape is beautiful.

On the downside, cape winters are bloody awful - it's not like in Joburg where you get dry winters - they are wet, cold (by comparison to the summer) and very, very windy.

From a financial perspective the cost of living has gone up a lot, and it's certainly not considered a cheap place to live any more (according to most of my friends that live there).

And the thing that would put me off most is the security. I think it's something that we take for granted over here - being able to go out whenever and wherever we want, not being too worried about being broken into at night, whereas in South Africa bars on the windows are a necessity, and more and more gated communities with security guards are becoming the norm.

I think that if it wasn't for the security the other issues wouldn't bother me as much, but for me the security would be a major factor.

Yes, Cape winters are hideous!

I was thinking more - especially if you don't want this to be a longterm move, I would think about the career prospects. How easy would it be for your partner to find a job?

Thanks for the replies! The perfect solution would be if Joburg was by the coast - good weathers, good for jobs, and having the seaside.

It would definitely be short term - 2 years or so.

Both of us have been looking into finding work and have a number of contacts within SA. We both work in the financial sector, which is a bit of a pain for Cape Town as most of it is located in Jo'burg.

I do wonder about the security - DP's super keen on moving to SA, but he's never lived in that kind of environment, one where your movement is restricted so much. the other day I was telling him that my cousin's house was broken into (routine in Joburg, no one was hurt so it's all good) and he was quite shocked, whereas I was very blase (cousin's safe, stolen items can be replaced).

How do CT winters compare to London? I remember talking about this with Mom and she said "remember, CT has very bad weather", but that concept was formed when we were living in SA. I think relatively speaking they're not as harsh. DP did a comparative analysis, over a year of the weather in CT and London, and apparently the min for CT is around 8-10 degrees in winter, which sounds positively tropical at the moment.

SA has got SUPER-expensive for many things - housing rental, mortgage/bond interest rate is sky high,cars (purchase or rental and you'll need one each as zero public transport to speak of), supermarket food, general fees, household bills..don't know when you last visited but we were shocked at how very much more itcosts to "run" a family over here than in the UK!

non-SA citizens find it near on impossible to work, at least at first (even with an SA spouse)..

"cost of living cheaper of course than London" ??
not true any more in my experience!

Admittedly, depends partly on your lifestyle, in london we ran only 1 car, here it's 2 (car rental of £700 x 2 per month for basic cars ie £1400 per month). in uK we had no school fees, here we pay £8,000 a year, in UK I earned a salary, here I don't. Weekly supermarket shop about 40-50% more than in the UK.
Yes wine, cleaners, eating out is cheaper but the essentials aren't

sorry to be so negative! On the good side, as you know, it's beautiful, summer weather lovely (though still frequent strong winds), good outdoor life, postivie friendly people. Security is an issue..

Thanks ExpatAgain - pretty much I've heard DP going "it's going to be amazing! We'll go to the beach and spend weekends at Franschoek!" so it's good to get a more realistic view of what it's actually like.

Yeah, I've been looking at properties (the plan would be to buy) and it is quite crazy the prices in CT in particular - something like house prices in SA have gone up 400% in 10 years (I read somewhere). DP has a lot in savings (I don't), so we'd be looking to buy mostly cash, and depending on interest rates (I warned him they were crazy) we might borrow the rest from his parents.

We wouldn't have school fees, so that saves. We don't have a car in London, just public transport, so that would be an expense.

I'm surprised to hear about the cost of food. When we visited (admittedly over a year ago), we did find it cheaper (especially eating out - that was 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of London), but maybe that's changed. Hm. When we were out we discussed it with my cousin, who is from SA, moved to the UK for a few years and then went back to SA, and she said pretty much overall you have the same spending power (e.g. petrol much cheaper in SA, but insurance costs through the roof).

Overall though, it's the quality of day to day life we're after. I'm so sick of these ridiculously long winters that get colder every year, not being able to do stuff outside as it's too cold, too wet and too windy (I spent my childhood summers in on or near a swimming pool or beach, same for DP) and the general stressiness of living in London.

I was there in October (JHB) and shocked at the cost of everything. It is no longer cheap! Food was the price of stuff here or more expensive.

Ok - ciggies and wine are still cheaper, but not the basics.

I looked at employment and I could not find a comparable job to the one I have at present that paid the same as I earn at the moment, and I am in Scotland.

Nothing is free and there is no fallback safety net (not that I use it here - but there is comfort knowing it's there iyswim).

Having been back here for 18 years, I felt quite sad that really I could not move back to SA anymore, but the reality is that the insecurity of the job market and poor rates of pay and rising cost of living and lack of freedom for the children means that that is no longer an option for my family.

eating out is cheaper but supermarket shop isn't so often deceptive if you're on holiday! As bafana said nothing is free - from school eye-checks to GP visits, prescriptions for kids medicines etc. dc had a bug and simple visit to doctor cost us £65 ie gp fee+ 2 x basic medicines.

employment is a real issue unless you've got exceptional skills/are transferred over here/set up your own business.

I think you need to compare what exactly you'll be spending money on and do a like-for-like comparison. A friend who doesn't have kids may well find life cheaper.

sorry, just re-read yr message and see you don't have kids yet, well that will save you! Trick is to give birth on the NHS and then come here for relatively super-cheap nanny care (one thing which is a SIGNIFICANT cost saving here - i know people paying about £500 a month for a f/t cleaner come nanny, for the equivalent in London you'd be looking at £2k plus I imagine!) It's older kids - cost of living/school fees which cost here, babies much, much cheaper over here. HTH

that was meant to be with a about giving birth on the nHS for free before coming here btw, as if I'd advocate such a thing !

Of course not expat

My biggest concern is jobs, but I haven't really started looking in our sectors. We both know a couple of people who could guide us in the right direction, one who owns his own company and is veh fond of DP, and we both already work for international companies with a SAn presence (only with mine it's in Joburg, not in CT)

We'll see - the plan is to stay min 1 max 2 more years in London and then move, but it's good to get an idea of the reality, rather than then perma sunshine wine quaffing fantasy we're both living in

The other thing that has occurred to me, would you be planning on living in a suburb, gated community or a cluster complex.

My bro lives in a gated suburb, in a cluster home. So he is paying for security for the suburb and security again for the complex. They also have an armed response.
There is also a charge for the maintenance of the roads and gardens in the area.

Now, I don't now whether they are over the top security wise or not, but the majority of my friends live in either gated community or cluster homes, whereas 10 years ago the majority were in ordinary suburban houses.

However, I saw alot more people out walking and jogging in this type of complex than I did anywhere else whilst I was there.

So this could add another monthly expense that you do not have at the moment.

Ab's where about in Jo'burg are you from (nosey emoticon) I was in Greenside.

Northern suburbs (don't want to get too specific to remain anon). Greenside's lovely. When I went back I was actually amazed at how lovely it was, with easy access to Zoo lake etc. So nice

We'd be looking to buy a flat, most probably in a complex.

Hi there,

I am originally from Cape Town but have been in London for 10 years.

I would move back to Cape Town TOMORROW - if we won the lottery! We are continually shocked by the prices in Cape Town - some of the normal grocery prices are the same as in the UK, but you earn much less than the UK.

Also - the traffic in Cape Town is pretty shocking - it seems to come to a standstill for the hours over rush hour and I feel quite claustrophobic when we visit - you are very restricted in where you can drive and when. My brother lives in the Northern Suburbs (Durbanville) and works in the city centre - he needs to leave his home before 6am in order to get to work at a decent time. (Having said that - most companies are supportive of flexible working so you can leave early to compensate). He used to commute part of the way on the train but stopped after a violent incident (A woman was stabbed in the same carriage as him).

Security is an issue, everyone we know has burglar alarms / armed response security companies at the end of panic buttons and strong security measures in their homes - but to be honest after a little while you don't notice it. It becomes your way of life. It wouldn't stop me from moving back...we have always been sensible and never had a problem. While living in London, we have been burgled once, my DH was attacked in the street (for no reason) and a good friend was robbed walking home from the pub. It can happen anywhere.

I would love to move back and be closer to my friends and family - but the money issue holds us back. It is VERY expensive to maintain a high standard of living if you are earning an average local wage....

op what you also need to consider is the exchange rate - esp if you're planning to not stay there long-term.

Bearing in mind that the Rand is about 11-1 to the pound, if you are going to be buying and then selling, your rands won't be worth much when you come back and exchange them iyswim.

Also do find out whether there is a limit on the amount of money you can bring out of the country - when we left there certainly was .

If you're not looking to stay long-term would you consider renting instead of buying?

Greenside is lovely, very trendy now, with lots of nice restaurants! We were there in October, and all the Jacaranda's were out, and it was beautiful. hence me looking at the job market! But hey Scotland with winter for 10 months of the year has some advantages too I suppose

This is a reply to Absducroissant's original message. I just wondered whether you had made any decisions re Cape Town. I am in the same position. I have lived in the UK for 20 years but now have 2 young children (6 and 4) and we are considering moving back to Cape Town. Many of our friends are doing the same.

If you are still considering a move, it may be worth us talking on email if you are happy to provide me with those details. I would rather have a positive conversation about moving there rather than just hearing about the crime and security problems. There are other things to consider too, positive things. My kids are always sick here. Always having colds and they have asthma etc. I struggle with being indoors most of the time and feel that we are living half a life. They always seem healthier and happier in SA.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Bridget

Hiya. Moved to CPT 6 years ago. Southern suburbs.

Jobs are difficult here without a doubt.

We live in a gated security complex, we sleep with windows and doors open (didn't have a lock for our front door for first 2 years), my kids walk local streets fine and I don't worry. Once older they will cycle to school for 2kms on their own no probs.

Food on a par or more expensive than London. Eating out much cheaper here.

Cape Town winters are pants compared to J'burg and out of 6 winters we have had 2 stinkers......loads of rain, but rest of time its really good and often are able to go to beach etc. If it rains in CPT it really rains (2 weeks on end) but then fab sunny days at 24c. But compared to UK winters here are a ball!

I've worked all over the world and lived in Sydney. Definitely prefer it here.

If you have a bit of money and can live in an ok area, then its fab.

But most of all, I love the can-do attitude. Yes there are troubles here but there is a sense of optimism.

And please all SA-knockers don't flame me. My job (youth work for previously disadvantage youth) takes me into the townships two/three times a week and I am fully aware I live a completely secular life. I now how bloody lucky we are compared to the vast majority of the population.

But as a family we have grown so much and I am proud to live here.

We don't have medical insurance (hospital only plan) so pay for GPs etc (its 20 GBP a visit) but generally stuff like dentists is a 10/th of price than private in UK.

But, as an outsider I would say go southern suburbs versus northern. Southern is much more european. Mate runs a relocation service and the only two clients she had that came to SA that didn't stay went to northern suburbs. Its much more Afriakaans up there. Very, very different. They found it massive culture shock. All the people she has relocated to the southern suburbs loved it.

Happy to answer any questions you may have.

Good luck in what ever you decide.

And house prices in CPT nuts compared to rest of SA. Rent first. Many bargains to be had at moment as sales market is currently dead. Plus it gives you the option of trying an area first.

gosh, where do u live? I don't know anyone whether in gated community or not who sleeps with doors open am ...
it's hard to avoid the subject of crime as a major issue if you live here, it's a daily fact of life and from what the locals say has got MUCH worse over the last yr or so with rising unemploymnt, worsening economy..

I also think regarding housing that actually you get much more value for money if you buy than if you rent (as long as you have a reasonable deposit so don't pay a fortune in mortgage interest). Say a 4-bed house in a good area could rent for upwards of R20,000 per month yet to buy would probably cost R3 -4 million. Ballpark figures depending hugely on area, but you see what I mean.

The other factor for me is that it's such a car-bound life, esp for kids. It's wonderful outdoors when they are out (but that's purely for designated leisure activities rather than as a means of going from a-b) but mine, fairly typically it seems, have to go everywhere by car which curtails their freedom somewhat and reduces their daily exercise.

To be honest I now value the UK lifestyle much much more now and will v v happily go back when we're able to do so! It's so easy to take security,free health/school, good public transport for granted and be dismissive of it...Think long and hard about what you're doing, I know lots of locals thinking about taking off overseas again for career/security/family reasons.
It's an uncertain place to live, it seems, for everyone..

There is no right or wrong answer. Luckily for us....it works. For some, the UK works, for others SA works.

We live in the Southern Suburbs of Cape Town.

Happy to answer any questions.

Oh I dunno. I have south african friends. One couple has vowed to never go back there to live (after recently spending 6 months there), one couple went back, only for my friends mum to be shot dead within a month of them returning, and them going on to Aus instead. And one couple returned to London a year later because they were so miserable and admittedly had been looking at life in SA through rose tinted glasses......