Worried about returning to Singapore..

[suzxie]

Hi all

My very first post and I am looking for some views as I am going slightly mental thinking about my situation 24/7 in my little noggin ..

I'm a Singaporean mum of 3 (4 yrs, 2yrs and 4 months)- I've lived in UK for 15 years (currently based in Surrey) - I'm in Singapore on maternity leave and am contemplating moving back here for good.

Pros - I guess the main reason for the move would be the route-learning but still excellent education system, the opportunity for my kids to learn Mandarin (useful with the current rise of China) and safety.

The other benefits would be the kids being able to get to know their grandparents, cousins etc, e weather and the kids being able to play outside (and not stuck indoors with colds), swimming, etc.

Also, being in Singapore for the last 4 months has been pretty different to UK - the vibe in Singapore is much more positive and future-facing (admittedly a lot of it is linked in to making money etc) but the atmosphere in UK is currently rather downbeat, probably because of the austerity measures.

Cons -
Mainly my difficulty with finding a job in the UK again if DH or kids are unable to cope with the local life. This is because i currently work as an in-house solicitor and a recruitment agent has told me that UK companies do not rate prior Singapore experience in finding a job in UK and not having recent UK experience would place me at a very big disadvantage in the UK job market. So this feels scary as the move to Spore is likely to be permanent..

I will also be leaving a good job with an excellent work-life balance (I work from home 2 afternoons a week) and subjecting DH, myself and the kids to the pressures of a S'pore lifestyle (long days working/studying, high standards...)

and a number of other pros/cons but I've run out of time at the mo...

Do you think I should make the move? Any comments welcomed!

Slim: all this digression? Thought that's what MN is all about. I love the way threads can go off on tangents.

But anyway, an interesting debate, different strokes for different folks and all that.

Thanks OP (was a little worried you might be offended, but you are admirably non-defensive). Enjoy your retreat (lah)!

I love the digression, nothing like it to get a little smugfest an interesting discussion going

Hi suzxie, hope you are gettingsomewhere with decision making. Whatever you do, I think you alwaqys win some and lose some. We are in the Czech Republic here and love it so will be a bit sad to uproot and move on, where ever we go really.

Some interesting rading about Singapore. Executions has set me back a bit. Could imagine from reading these posts I will miss having land, space and the countryside but you can never have everything, can you?

Lucky you, going on retreat. Have a nice time.

Hi suzxie,

I'm a working mum who moved to Singapore last year from London (but not originally from the UK). I know slim said that she found worklife balance good in Singapore, but unfortunately that has not been my experience, nor an experience I personally have witnessed frequently here.

I find the hours painfully long and little to no understanding or appreciation of work-life balance. Perhaps because so many people have live-in help there is no impetus to change working culture to allow for more flexibility. There also seems to be a fear here of falling behind (as you are Singaporean, I'm sure you understand this much more than I), which makes it hard for individuals to break the cycle of long hours & face-time by asking for flexible work arrangements.

If you are able to run your own business or something similar, perhaps you could do better than me (is that what you were doing slim?). For example, I know one woman who was freelancing on a project basis who was able to pick here children up from school. But she also found it very difficult to keep clients and eventually had to take a full-time contract role, leaving her in the same position as me - rarely home in time to see her kids. Unfortunately for myself and most working mothers I know here, the juggling act we are used to in places like the UK shifts radically in Singapore, and more often than not the sacrifice ends up being the time you spend with your children.

Recently there were a swathe of interesting articles and opinion pieces in the local papers around the fact that the birth rate has been slipping drastically despite encouragement from the government to have more children. Many women wrote in explaining that with their working life demands it was impossible to make time for one child, let alone more. Many called out for more part-time arrangements, which are frankly like gold-dust here in terms of opportunities. The "opposing" letters claimed that part-time workers are no good; the fact that they care about their families proving that they are less committed to their jobs. It didn't seem to me that the impasse was going to change anytime soon.

I hope this is not too bleak (and sorry it's such an essay!), but I wanted to share my own experience with you.

I definitely agree Hodel, there is absolutely no room for flexible time in most professions. I followed that debate and its quite unlikely to change.

I worked in property so I could technically manage my time by refusing clients and I did before school holidays, but if you want your income you work weekends too!
Then set up a retail operation and as we all know being self employed often means even more work as it follows you home.

Still, I think with an equal work load, Singapore is just a bit easier.

I have NO idea about living in Singapore.
BUT, I uprooted the family, husband and two kids, to move to my native Norway after 15 years away, in London.

We deeply regret this move. I had certainly looked at life here through rose tinted spectacles. It is not what I had imagined at all. Even if I was born here, and lived here the first 20 years of my life, it was not like I imagined, and a lot had changed.

It is so different to the uk, in respect of how things WORK, and nobody told me how it is, and how to do things, they expected me to know, as I was Norwegian, but I had never lived here as a dependent adult, so I did not know. This relates to how to apply for nursery, schools, banking issues, insurance, taxes, tax returns etc.

If we could turn the clock back, to before we moved, we would.

Think long and hard, that is my only advise to you.

OK now back and a little update/digression. :)

Suffice to say, the "should-I-stay(in SG)-or-should-I-go(back to UK)" kept replaying again and again in my mind all throughout last week and drove me mad until on day 4 of my retreat, I surrendered and decided to leave my family's lives up to God (sorry, feeling embarrassed religion can be such a sensitive topic!) ...

It was an emotional breakthrough for me as I tend to overthink things sometimes and be too much of a control freak. Learning to let go and let someone else (hopefully!) to take control of my life was a leap of faith and was very very tough. However, a second after I made the decision, I suddenly felt a weight lift and since that moment, I feel so much lighter and at peace.

OK, I haven't turned into a happy-clappy or brainwashed religious fanatic () but I do feel a lot better. Knowing the pros/cons is necessary but I now think that if it is meant to be, it will happen. So I'm not worried any more, unlike what I was when I first started this thread. Hurray!

I hope I won't become a social pariah now .. but I thought my experience might help someone sometime... Hope all of you are having great weeks and please do drop me a line ...

Hi there, unfortunately I think I am about to get on the bashing bandwagon too, sorry about that.

I am from the UK and I have lived in Singapore twice, in total for 8 years. I've also lived in HK for 7 years, so I am a bit of an Asia pro. The first time I lived here I was working. I hated it. I used to tell my husband that if I died, no one would notice as the locals didn't even acknowledge my existence in the 2 offices I worked in. That was of course until one of them was getting married and then I was expected to hand over a red packet with 40 pounds in it even if I didn't go. I then lived in HK for 7 years and whilst I found a lot of the cultural difficulties similar, I had an absolute blast. I made fantastic friends and loved the upbeat buzz of the place. We returned to Singapore, reluctantly on my part with 2 young children. We have been here for nearly 5 years.

Personally I do not enjoy Singapore. Although I will say that it is a good place to raise young children or so I think. My son goes to a top international school and is doing great. If I could take that school and put it in the UK with him in it I would leave tomorrow. I have never made any friends here, only artificial self important acquaintances. I hate paying GBP 3,500 rent a month (and that's cheap!) for a small semi with an atrocious landlord who penny pinches and who has the law completely on his side. Unfortunately I have never come across a landlord here who wasn't of the same ilk. I would buy here, but then who wants to spend 2 million pounds on a semi which has fluctuated in value like a roller coaster over the past 15 years. As for safety, I am the first person to say that the UK is messed up and unsafe, however despite being from a rough town in the north of England and having lived all over London, I have never been a victim of crime. That was, until I moved to Asia ;) Since I have lived in Asia I have been harassed, burgled, had my phone stolen (all in Singapore) and had 2 other attempted burglaries in HK. Don't get me wrong, I've also had great times in Asia with fantastic holidays and privileges I will never get anywhere else. However the great, long holiday is over and I long to return to my own country. At present there is an underlying negativity toward foreign talent here that is being translated into changes of government policy e.g. not allowing dependent holders (wives like me) to start up businesses, rejection of residency all because the locals think that foreign workers are taking things away from them, which in fact they are not. We have a garden here, but it's too hot to play outside. Last year around this time we had 35 cases of dengue fever in our street and we had to shut the windows , sleep under nets, spray daily and run to the car to go out - for 8 weeks. With 2 kids under 5, what a nightmare!!!!

I know that moving back to the UK there are going to be times when I regret it. However I recently spent a lot of time in the UK and Europe and I was amazed at what a different person I was and how happy I was.

Sorry, if all that sounds so negative. I know lots of people enjoy living here and that's great. However, I do not nor do many of my friends. Many of my seasoned expat acquaintances have returned to the UK/ Australia wither from their own choice or forced return and they all say the same thing. They had a great time, it was a great experience however they wouldn't come back. Back home it's not better, it's just different.

Hi there, unfortunately I think I am about to get on the bashing bandwagon too, sorry about that.

I am from the UK and I have lived in Singapore twice, in total for 8 years. I've also lived in HK for 7 years, so I am a bit of an Asia pro. The first time I lived here I was working. I hated it. I used to tell my husband that if I died, no one would notice as the locals didn't even acknowledge my existence in the 2 offices I worked in. I then lived in HK for 7 years and whilst I found a lot of the cultural difficulties similar, I had an absolute blast. I made fantastic friends and loved the upbeat buzz of the place. We returned to Singapore, reluctantly on my part with 2 young children. We have been here for nearly 5 years.

Personally I do not enjoy Singapore. Although I will say that it is a good place to raise young children or so I think. My son goes to a top international school and is doing great. If I could take that school and put it in the UK with him in it I would leave tomorrow. I have never made any friends here, only artificial self important acquaintances. I hate paying GBP 3,500 rent a month (and that's cheap!) for a small semi with an atrocious landlord who penny pinches and who has the law completely on his side. Unfortunately I have never come across a landlord here who wasn't of the same ilk. I would buy here, but then who wants to spend 2 million pounds on a semi which has fluctuated in value like a roller coaster over the past 15 years. As for safety, I am the first person to say that the UK is messed up and unsafe, however despite being from a rough town in the north of England and having lived all over London, I have never been a victim of crime. That was, until I moved to Asia ;) Since I have lived in Asia I have been harassed, burgled, had my phone stolen (all in Singapore) and had 2 other attempted burglaries in HK. Don't get me wrong, I've also had great times in Asia with fantastic holidays and privileges I will never get anywhere else. However the great, long holiday is over and I long to return to my own country. At present there is an underlying negativity toward foreign talent here that is being translated into changes of government policy e.g. not allowing dependent holders (wives like me) to start up businesses, rejection of residency all because the locals think that foreign workers are taking things away from them, which in fact they are not. We have a garden here, but it's too hot to play outside. Last year around this time we had 35 cases of dengue fever in our street and we had to shut the windows , sleep under nets, spray daily and run to the car to go out - for 8 weeks. With 2 kids under 5, what a nightmare!!!!

I know that moving back to the UK there are going to be times when I regret it. However I recently spent a lot of time in the UK and Europe and I was amazed at what a different person I was and how happy I was.

Sorry, if all that sounds so negative. I know lots of people enjoy living here and that's great. However, I do not nor do many of my friends. Many of my seasoned expat acquaintances have returned to the UK/ Australia wither from their own choice or forced return and they all say the same thing. They had a great time, it was a great experience however they wouldn't come back. Back home it's not better, it's just different.

Oooops. I thought a part of my thread was a bit insensitive so I edited it - but it looks like now there's 2.

Apologies!!

quint I think that we are opposites, I am English and my partner is Norwegian (I know this thread is about Singapore, but I have the same 'where to move to' dilemma). Sorry to hear you have regretted your move back. I have responded to earlier posts with a different name about the hard time I had in Norway (Bergen (v. tough) and Oslo). I now have the dilemma of England v Norway (currently in Australia), life seems to be so difficult in a relationship with 2 nationalities once children are involved, the pull of all the different factors, grandparents, culture etc etc. Do you think you will move back to UK? I haven't lived in UK since uni so would have similar issues with practical life skills especially as the onus would be on me to fix things as the 'English person' like my partner was in Norway, which I found frustrating because it affects the balance of a relationship. Australia is a nice neutral country, yet too far from 'home' wherever that might be. I have no idea how to solve my dilemma, so might wait to be guided by OP, it's just hard trying to explain to people who all look at me like because I'm supposed to be grown up and have a plan. Good luck OP and all others with similar dilemmas!

Guided like OP

Hi OP I'm Singaporean too and I live in Kent!! I was in Singapore for a month during my maternity leave and although it was great being there I think for me it was a relief to come back to the uk. Having said that if my parents had a domestic helper and if we hired a car I might have felt differently! I was home with my DS who's 3 and my DD who was 4 months old (then).

I listen to stories of not having work
Life balance and I worry. Yes there's domestic help but I'm not sure that I want to have to work till 10every night and pay someone £2/300 to put my kids to bed.

Which retreat did you go to? I used to attend holy fam!