Frühlingserwachen - spring finally seems to have arrived in Germany and Austria...

[LinzerTorte]

... or at least I hope so.

For everyone in Germany and Austria, and anyone else who would like to chat!

I know what you mean admylin about the mixed reaction. I remember my brother being relieved to be finally told he was dyslexic. He had struggled for so long at school and finally there was an explanation to all this suffering. I did my phd alongside two women who were dyslexic and wow, were they brilliant students. They had got the support they needed at the right time. I hope this now means your daughter will get the support she needs.

canella - no idea about eggs. I tried to do it last year and failed miserably. The staff at the kindergarten thought it was hilarious that I asked for instructions and even so could not do it. Are German/Austrian mums born with a egg-blowing gene then?!?!

Linzer - I ´ve booked the shaman. I´ll keep working on finding a way to have another coffee!

banana- great that all was well in the end. Like canella, having dc have made me more sensitive to things.

I think Germans and Austrians are born with a bastel gene, which includes egg blowing abilities. I tried to make my own Adventkranz one year and it was a complete disaster - not fit for being on display. I shall stick to the far superior supermarket versions in future. I don't think I baked a single biscuit last Christmas and am unable to help DD1 with her crocheting, so am a complete failure as an Austrian mother.

We have our Elternsprechtag this afternoon, but they only allow five minutes per child which doesn't seem very long - I'm sure we used to have 10 minutes with DD1's old teacher. Both DH and I are going in case the DDs' appointments overlap (they're 20 minutes apart); if the worst comes to the worst, we can probably leave the DC at the buffet as there are bound to be other parents around who they know.

admylin Interesting to hear that most children with dyslexia cope quite well after a few years' training. DD1 has been going for extra lessons for a couple of years now but it's hard to say how much they help; she def. still struggles with German, but it may have been far worse if she hadn't been going to the lessons. I've also heard that dyslexia can often improve when children become teenagers and am hoping it's true.

bananas Maybe we'll see you at one of the NÖ Card destinations if you decide to get cards! We need to renew ours as they expired on 1st April. We should have a look to see if there's anywhere we can go this weekend as I've just found out we'll be looking after a friend's two children all day on Saturday so we'll definitely need to get out somewhere.

Off to the English lesson now - I have a headache and don't really feel like teaching, but maybe it will take my mind off the headache.

pops in to say hello

Hello Cinders! You must be psychic as I e-mailed you about 2 minutes ago and said you should come back and join us on the thread.

Yes Linzer, (thanks for the message by the way) I think the doctor was maybe talking about dd in particular her age - she's 11 but in a class above her age group so mostly 12 year old dc and has done alot of extra work. Maybe if we'd caught this when she was younger the therapy would have been different and maybe slower, not sure. Anyway, school has to make allowances for her until 8th or 9th grade from what I've heard.

We've got one of those awful collective Elternabend meetings tonight. I find them a waste of time as usually everything they tell us is sent out in letters at some point anyway and the rest is usually about hans not wanting to sit next to Boris and can he sit next to Peter instead

I'll be going to show face and hand in the certificate from the doctor. Will have to ask for a private meeting anyway to discuss any changes.

good luck with the parent evenings
ds teacher is still not talking to me ...

anyway must hide the puter in a mo

At least she won't get you to teach the class English then, Cinders. I don't mind doing it, but it's very time-consuming. My only consolation is that I'll probably be able to teach DS's class with virtually no preparation - I dread to think how many hours I've spent printing out handouts, laminating flashcards and just generally finding things to do with the class.

admylin Yes, I usually find out more from the minutes of the Elternabend than if I actually go. I used to be able to get out of them by sending DH but it's a little trickier now with two DC at school.
Have you decided yet where you want to go in the UK btw?

I'm now feeling paranoid as there's a boy in DD2's class called Pascal and I'm sure that the children were laughing at the way I pronounced his name. DD2 has already told me that I pronounce egal in a very funny way (confirmed by DH!) so I am going to have to avoid saying any words that end in -l in future.

Why isn't she speaking to you cinders?

Agree about the bastel gene! Dd tries to have it but ends up leaving a trail of mess from her room to teh kitchen to the living room! Usually little snippets of paper or material. She made quite a good voodoo doll out of black felt and stuffed it with cotton wool. It even had a pocket sewn on to hold the pins. She wants a sewing machinne but I think you need a whole spare room for a sewing machine to be any fun!

No still haven't decided about UK as have to speak to dh first. Trouble is he has other things on his mind and by the time that was sorted he'd fallen asleep on the sofa last night so I just left him to it and went to bed.

He's had a response from the job application in Canada that they have to wait until May to short list candidates but he'd be very interesed in meeting dh.

well she seems to only see the bad in ds

which on some days can be rather a lot

but he has been put into a special one to one class for

one hour a week

wow

and at one point she even stopped ds going
oh well
think it may be easy not to talk to her
silly as the school want a native speaker

Hello - I am new to this thread - moving to Frankfurt in July. We have 2 children who are 2 and 3 yrs and I want to get them into a german speaking preschool. I enquired about a german montessori but it is full - I am not wedded to the idea of montessori but I very much want the children to learn german. I have read that some bilingual schools are not as bilingual as they make themselves out to be - they are populated by germans who want their children to learn english. So my question is: - has anyone put young children into a german speaking preschool (speaking no german themselves) and if so how did it go? and how do you find out how good the preschools are?

Hi thedevilsinthedogstail . We are in Bavaria which is probably nothing like Frankfurt... but the normal state Kindergartens are just as good as Montessori in my opinion (and actually use quite a lot of Montessori-esque principles such as children using "real" tools, natural materials (wooden furniture not plastic) mixed age groups (3-6 mainly), kids being encouraged to do everything themselves of which they are realistically capable etc. etc. We speak 95% plus English at home as a family (though DH is actually German by birth) but the kids are the only bilingual children (of any language mix) in their rural state kindergarten - there is a little boy with a Rumanian mother and a little girl with an Italian father but both speak German at home and not much of their second language, only my children are actually speakers of any two languages.

We moved here when DD was 18 months and she was speaking well in English but only knew one or two German words (DH was funny about speaking German to her when we lived in England and said he felt silly, so she had not heard much) but she picked a lot up just from toddlers group and the playground (plus in-laws in our case but they live an hour away so were not enough of a factor to have been mainly responsible). I made sure both children attended local toddlers group with me before starting Kindergarten, and we spent tons of time in the local playground, and they both started kindergarten with enough German (DD with rather more even though DS was actually born here - language over all comes easier to DD). After 6 months in KiGa though neither can be told from a 100% native speaker, no accent, age appropriate native speaker vocab and grammar, some use of local dialect ... and people are shocked to hear them switch to English with me.

Our local kindergarten doesn't usually take children under 3 - technically they can take one per class but only if space is left after admitting all the 3 plus children who apply, and even then only if both parents work, so your 2 year old may not get a place at a state kindergarten unless Frankfurt is different - cities are often different even without considering the totally different state though, so this is only something to consider, not fact set in stone or anything!

Other than that I would recommend going for your local state KiGa rather than a special bilingual or niche one, as IMO it is really lovely for kids to make friends with local children who they will then easily be able to play with outside Kindergarten hours - if they make local, native German speaking, friends their German will come on much faster.

Good luck with the move!

hello cinders we haven't met - that sounds a strange situation with your ds's teacher! Hope it blows over soon!

Thanks 2and1ontheway

think it is unlikely to blow over
but at least it will not blow up.

I think going for a local kiga is the best bet
for friendships as well,

I also lack the bastel gene - but I first blew eggs after moving here when kiga required 4 blown eggs to be sent in for Easter craft - DD (then 3) talked me though how as they had done some in KiGa already!!! There was no talk of boiling them so I never did - but then as I say I was following instructions from a 3 year old! They worked fine though and I only washed them once done - not even in hot water....

I rarely go to the Kindergarten's group Elternabend Linzer - terrible mummy I am sure they think I am, but they go on for hours and as you say you learn nothing that isn't in the minutes. Originally I coped out due to my German, when DD first started KiGa Í would not have understood much, but now I guess I would I just don't want to go! Obviously I go to anything which actually applies to my children specifically, like the one for Vorschule parents and the one at the school about starting but not the general ones which seem usually to be mostly about about preparing for the Christmas market/ summer fest/ St. Martins Zug etc. etc. etc. I had to miss one recently about the Vorschule kids upcoming trip away as I was working that eve, but had a 1:1 with DD's teacher for 10 mins the next day and got all the info then - much better!

admylin glad your dd has her official diagnosis and will now get specific help and allowances made.

The saga with my neighbour viewing me as a source of free childcare continues - part of the problem being as she is my next door neighbour and the kids are the same ages and do play together I don't want to make an outright enemy by being full on rude to her... but I have started being very blunt indeed, beyond my English comfort zone! Today I picked all the kids up from Kiga (she was meant to do the morning run but for various reasons I took my kids - it was DS's first kiga trip by bus and despite being excited yesterday he was scared this morning - he wanted either me or DD to go with him, but the Vorschule kids went separately yesterday so she couldn't, and it seemed a bit late and impractical for me to last minute volunteer go go along) so I wanted to hand him over myself. Anyway I picked the kids up at the end of KiGa, returned the neighbor's kids to her house - and there was nobody in! House empty! The gran lives there in a granny flat but wasn't answering her bell either, so I had to bring her kids back to ours. I called and left her very abrupt voice mails to fetch them and she rolled up 45 mins later and said she'd been delayed, her DD asked to stay but I said no and sent them home. DD had another friend here to play this afternoon - she is quite bored of always "having" to play with the neighbour's DD! I have told neighbour I am no longer able to pick her children up from KiGa or keep them here and have told her it is because of the pain I am in at the moment, but have said I can take them in the mornings still if she is willing to fetch mine - taking in the morning is a 10 minute business, fetching is a faff getting the kids rounded up and out the door (esp as her son insists he can't put his own shoes on and getting down on the floor in the KiGa cloakroom to do it is not fun at 38 weeks preg) even before I then get dumped on to babysit for half/ all the afternoon! I shall just continue to be firm I guess... There are only 2 more days of kindergarten, then one week of holiday, then I'll be in hospital for my c-section!

Sounds like your neighbour is really taking advantage of you 2and1 - I can't believe she would turn up 45 minutes late (that's bad enough) and without even letting you know/asking you beforehand. I don't blame you for saying you can't pick them up any more - good on you for starting to be more blunt with her (I also lack the blunt gene as well as the bastel gene!).

Welcome to the thread thedevilsinthedogtail. I wouldn't worry too much about putting your DC into a German-speaking Kindergarten even if they're not used to speaking German at home, as children can usually pick up a new language fairly quickly and easily at that age. There are quite a few children (mainly Eastern European) at our Kindergarten who didn't speak much/any German when they started but they don't seem to have too many problems learning it and they're all fluent by the time they start school (much earlier in the majority of cases).

Cinders Sorry to hear about the problems with your teacher. The system here often seems very rigid and some teachers just don't seem to want to bother with children who don't "conform".

Well, the Elternsprechtag was a bit of a waste of time - I went to see DD2's teacher, who said that DD2 is doing fine and so there wasn't really anything to say about her. She could have told me that after yesterday's English lesson! (DD1's old teacher always used to take a couple of minutes to talk to me after the English lesson to save me going in again to the Elternsprechtag in the afternoon). DH spent longer with DD1's teacher as there was a bit more to discuss - her dyslexia, secondary schools, etc. Her teacher thinks that she would cope quite well at Gymnasium, which was good to hear, but her grade for German is still between 2 and 3 - her overall mark is being brought down by the fact that she got a 5 (the lowest mark here) in one test because she didn't understand what she was supposed to be doing.

Anyway, enough procrastinating - I have to finish a job by lunchtime so must get on with it.

hello cinders- are you in austria too then? sounds like a tough situation with the schoolteacher. how much longer does he have her?

thedevilsinthedogtail - hello! I´d go with the local german one, the children will learn very quickly and will teach you! I put a 4 and 5 yr old who spoke no German (dh is German but had been out of Germany for so long that it did not feel natural to speak German to them when we lived in the Uk - now he speaks German to them) into a German Kindergarten (in Finland so they had an extra language to struggle with). They learnt German within 6 months, during which they did not seem particularly upset or struggling. When we arrived here I put 2yr old ds into a German-speaking Kindergarten, he had spent 8 months in a Finnish Kindergarten but adapted fine too. And I have seen plenty of similar examples, so my dc are no exceptions.

2and1 - I am glad you said something, hard as it may be for you. But she really is taking advantage of you. She sounds rather disorganised apart from anything else. If you weren´t there, then who would look after her dc? Saying you are being blunt makes it sound rather negative- you are being assertive!

admylin- how do you feel about a possible move to Canada? Would you rather stay in Germany?

Good to know I am not the only one with the missing bastel gene. The thing is, I enjoy doing it with the dc (well dds as ds is not really into it) but just not very good at it! How did the eggs turn our canella? did you manage to get them to the kindergarten without dropping/treading/squashing them?!?!

Linzer - good to hear about dd1. Do they have to have a 1 in German to get into the local Gymnasium? Waste of time about dd2. I don´t mind the 1-1 with the teacher but hate the general information ones, such a waste of time.

Must go - got to get the car tyres changed though it is so grey and cold it does not feel like spring is here- boo.

2and1 - well done for being assertive. If I was your neighbour I´d be offering to help you out by taking and fetching your children to/from kiga. I certainly wouldn´t expect you to be providing a free child care service.

cinders - sorry to hear you´re still having problems. Is there any chance of ds swapping classes.

thedevilsinthedogstail - I agree with what the others have said about trying out the local Kindergarten. I´m also in Hessen and our kiga has only started taking 2 year olds this year, so I´m not sure how easy it would be to find a place for your youngest. Be warned that the ratio of staff to children is much lower than in a UK nursery. As 2and1 says they really encourage children to develop their independence and are given a lot of freedom in making choices which might look irresponsible/dangerous if you´re used to uk nurseries eg. ds has a workbank with hammers, saws etc in the corner of the room and the children are expected not to touch it unless they´re being supervised. I´m sure in the UK the tools would be locked away until they were needed.

I´m another one missing the bastel gene, although dd seems to have picked it up from somewhere.

Linzer - I´ve similar problem to your Pascal problem with one of the children I teach. He´s called Ole which on the face of it should be simple. I can now pronounce it 3 different ways, but none of them are right, so I now avoid saying his name.

bananas - thanks for mentioning the tyres- it´s reminded me I need to get mine changed.

I'd also be the one offereing to help you rather than leaving my dc with you as hupa says, 2and1 is she not sympathetic of your situation at all? Does she ask you how you're feeliong in your state?

Thedevil, it's amazing how quickly dc learn languages even 4 and 5 year olds don't need long to start understanding and joining in. My dc went aged 4 and ds couldn't speak at all and he kept saying I don't understand in English! But only for a month or so.

It's Zukunftstag here today. All dc from year 5 to 10 are at work! Just got back from the little afgahni shop where I buy spices and okra and he's got 4 boys cleaning his shelves! The hospital is over run with dc following doctors around. Ds is with dh's engineer for the morning learning about data analysis (yawn) and then a quick trip to the cantine with dh for lunch then I'll pick him up. Dd is at a Berufschule with her friend's dad who is a electronical engineer teacher. They'll be having a go with some robotic machinery.
NOt sure what to think about the elternabend last night. Only half the parents turned up. I gave teacher the dyslexia certificate and he said it'll only be taken into account when we parents present the Nachhilfe proof that she is doing something out of school. That will take 2 months to set up anyway (waiting lists) so it sounds as if they will still mark her down for spellings even though the psycologist's certificate should be enough. Think I have to go back eh? I could speak to the social teacher who ever that is.

Have just finished work - it took me far longer than it should have done as I was struggling to concentrate for some reason, although coffee definitely helped!

bananas DD1 would theoretically need to have 1s in German, maths and Sachunterricht to get into the Gymnasium that her dyslexia teacher recommended (the better one for her as a "kleines zierliches Mädchen"), as there's quite a lot of competition for places. However, she thinks that she'd be able to get in with 2s if she has a dyslexia certificate. There is another Gymnasium but I've heard a lot of negative reports about it; two of my friends went there and said they wouldn't send their DC there.
The neue Mittelschule is also an option, but I think the Don Bosco Gymnasium is just too far and DD1 really isn't keen on going all that way on the bus (much as I liked the fact that the school has its own coffee house!).

hupa I'd managed to avoid saying Pascal's name up to now, but have just started using lollipop sticks with the children's names on them - I take one at random if I want to ask them a question. (I saw it on a British TV programme and it seemed a good idea, as I usually end up asking the same children all the time.) The teacher looked at them a bit sceptically and said she could have given me a list, but I'd still be fiddling about crossing the children's names off once I'd asked them - and am quite attached to the sticks now that I've gone to the trouble of making them!

admylin How frustrating that the teacher won't take the dyslexia certificate into account yet - your DD still has dyslexia, whether or not she's having Nachhilfe! I can see that they want to encourage you to get help, but it must be very demoralising being marked down in the meantime; surely proof that you're on a waiting list should count too?

hupla and admylin she does offer to help - but every offer has an attachment or a follow up - she said several months ago how when I got big and when the baby arrived she was going to help me lots - at that point I still only had a Golf so couldn't physically pick her kids and mine up from KiGa together due to lack of car seat space, and our kids played at each others houses regularly but not as babysitting - as in both of us would be home but the kids would just call round and play, and that arrangement was totally fine (though her kids have always been quite demanding guests in terms of constant requests, sulks and fights...)

I think the problem started when she got afternoon work (kids only in KiGa mornings) and presumably she assumed, or had arranged, that her mother, who lives in a flat within their house, would look after the kids. Seems this has not worked out for whatever reason and she has therefore decided that rather than give up the job or pay for childcare she will rely on neighbours...

Cynically I am pretty sure looking back that her sudden offer to help me out (which was a future offer - when you need it, not yet - at that point I was looking pregnant but not struggling or in pain unless I over did it physically) came at the same time she realised she needed extra child care options, and also at the same time I had mentioned I was going to give up my one day a week daytime job earlier than originally planned as I was finding it hard physically -at that point we both worked Fridays - she still does but now seems to work several other afternoons too.

I told neighbour I would be picking only my kids up from KiGa this lunch time (I took all 4... she had offered to fetch but my kids didn't want to go home with her...) and she sounded a bit surprised... I took my kids out for lunch and then an icecream in the nice town square not too far away as the sun is out - we had a lovely couple of hours, I feel like I don't get much time with only my 2 atm until the tired evening hours! We got home and there were the neighbour's 2 kids standing at the end of our drive (blocking my way in, I had to open the window and ask them to move) saying they had been waiting ages for us?????? I had promised DD that we would go and call for another of her village friends and bring her back here, and DD nearly cried when she saw the neighbour kids as she really didn't want to play with them again! I still took DD to call for her friend and brought her back here - the neext door neighbour kids asked to come with us but I said no, it is getting a bit like being followed around by stray dogs! Eek to say that about kids but I think both DD and I are feeling that way! Ds doesn't mind playing with the neighbour's DS so much, but he doesn't have as wide a circle of friends and is happy anyway with anyone who likes kicking a football or riding up and down on bikes! Neighbour's kids are still hanging out at the end of our drive and in our garden even though DD and her invited friend are now inside... sigh! I asked them if their mum is home and they said she isn't, but their Oma is... don't know what the story is...

admylin that sounds incredibly rigid / unsympathetic of your DD's teacher - would be a whole different thing in the UK, where it would be down to the school to provide support, not to you to prove you had done so in order to get her diagnosis taken into account! I have always heard that the system here is great for totally average children, but falls down for anyone who has any needs (or abilities) differing from the absolute norm... seems that may be true! Zukunftstag sounds interesting, although a bit loopy that all the year groups have it on the same day - sounds rather over crowded!

Linzer and hupa I had problems pronouncing a few names at school when I did one day a week at a Grundschule - I am afraid I just decided to tell them I was pronouncing their names the English way as my whole job description was "immersion" I get some of the kids KiGa friend's names a bit wrong too and my kids tell me off - I do try harder to get those right but inevitably fail - I think my accent is terrible anyway, but at least I can make myself understood - I am miles and miles behind you both though in terms of learning the language and still instantly recognisable as a foreigner as soon as I open my mouth!

2and1ontheway

my german will be far worst than use

I make the truly most awful mistakes

omg
and I can not even write a simple word in English

use is meant to be yours

I sometimes despair with my German. I can do the accent when I'm calm but when I get nervous I start getting the words in the wrong order and then the accent goes!
Last night at the meeting I understood most of them but if I miss a word or two then I'm lost and I just sit smiling and nodding going ja, hmm, ja when everyone else does. One mother (she seemed quite aggressive) I didn't understand her at all - she spoke very fast and she was mad about something.

I've also given up on work - meant to be proof reading a publication but it's so boring, although I understand the subject (almost) as it's dh's old topic that he researched in Berlin. When his colleague here sends me things to check I don't undertsand half of it. It's mostly about data analysis.

I had to get up even earlier than usual today to get dd to her Zukunftstag place on time and I'm on my 4th coffee but I think I'm giving up - it's almost 8pm and time to rest.

dh had me proofreading too...

and the subject was

horse

castration......

Good news - ds1 found dh's wedding ring - in his shoe! Relief all round! Sorry for not replying to any posts. Teaching German tonight and have to get everything ready. Hope you're all having restful nights!