Relocating to Hong Kong with 5 young DC.. HELP!!!

[wetwelly]

Calling any HK mums with young children.. My DH has been headhunted to join an investment bank in HK.. It's looking like a september move over there for us and frankly, I'm terrified!! I have 4 DC and am pregnant with no. 5 due mid august. Just to complicate things. The company actually wanted us to move sooner but I just cannot contemplate moving whilst pregnant and giving birth etc over there.

So plan is to move when new baby is 4 - 5 weeks ish.. eek. I just don't know where to start..

Firstly - a home. Company has provided us with a relocation person but they just keep sending unsuitable property details. Our budget is reasonable - but looking like will have to be out in New territories to get the space. We are used to a nice 6 bed home over here with loads of outdoor space and live very rurally. Can anyone suggest regions to make a start for the search? So far.. Tai Po has been mentioned several times. Discovery Bay we just cant seem to afford what we need.. DH will spend some time over in Shenzhen just over the border into China. So bearing that in mind too..

Next.. schools. I am used to our lovely very english prep school here in a lovely rural location with a very active pta. I guess I'm not going to find it's equivalent?! I will need a yr 3 and a yr 1 place for sept 11 plusa pre-school place. ESF schools seem to be slightly cheaper which is good considering we will have 5 dc there eventually. However, the jump in affordability to the private schools doesn't seem huge and so would consider these too if could get the right place.

So basically.. am just grateful for any advice, tips etc about how to manage this seemingly impossible move with 5 dc under 7.. and preferably reassurance :-)

hi there, just a quick one as my youngest is waking up: have you tried geoexpat for HK? good forum.

well, not current knowledge, but live-in help is relatively v cheap, so would be a good help to you. What can you afford in discovery bay?? It's very expat/family friendly and much less remote than new territories.. It may help to reframe your expectations - HK is super-crowded and v v v expensive propertywise so may be best not to look for "equivalent" properties but what is reasonable/affordable/fits you all.
hth.

I guess 3500 - 4500 per month in GBP would be max.. Discovery Bay did seem to be very expat friendly - I was just concerned about getting into the schools over there as such high demand. I have found that we could get a 5 /6 bed fairly spacious house out in Sheung Shui NT for that budget but just wonder what day to day life would be like out of the main city. It looks like an 'expat' type development.

I guess it depends what your essentials are - space v everything else. Could you stay in temporary accommodation and take the first couple of months to decide/?

Sai Kung is lovely - by the coast, outdoors lifestyle and big houses.
What about Pokfulam?
Or what about Sha Tin - lots of nice developments with big houses and swimming pools, close to Sha tin junior school? Sheung Shui is quite far out - I wouldn't be so keen to live there with little ones.

Most expats have a maid to help with household tasks and childcare.

ESF schools are great - you will probably need to get kids names down soon though to make sure they get a place.

I know you've said that you don't want to have dc5 in HK - but if your husband's job will pay for the medical insurance - you might like to look here matilda hospital it's the best hospital in HK - more like a hotel!!

I have 6 children and live in Clearwater Bay. Housing is more affordable there, good rural location but only 30-40 minutes to the city. Good ESF school and pre school.

Hi there

I think you have to get used to the idea that you are not going to have the space that you are used to. To put it in perspective, only 5% of residential units in HK are >1,500 sq ft so bigger apartments/ houses command big premiums. It sucks, but HK rents are basically 2x central London. The good news is that it's totally usual for younger kids in HK to share bedrooms- that's normal, so if that's an option, you could get a slightly smaller house in a better area

Like Roobag, I was going to say Clearwater Bay, because the ESF school has a very good rep and the ESF schools prioritise children who can't access the local system (i.e. non-cantonese speakers). Also, Clearwater Bay and Sai Kung are the two most "expaty" bits of the new territories, albeit the most expensive. With your budget you might have to go for an older style property but you'll get something suitable.

Re schools other than ESF, the International schools (esp Kellett) are hell to get into- it's a case of names down at birth, and then priority to siblings and debenture holders, so you'd be very very lucky to get September places now but maybe get on the waiting list. Lots of people come and go so you may hit the jackpot.

Anyway, one last thing. I think you're right to give birth in the UK. I wouldn't come to HK and have the baby here- you are too late to get into Matilda or Adventist (need to be booked in at 9 weeks) and although the government hospitals are medically fine, they are something of a culture shock in terms of visiting hours, having to take your own toilet paper and sheets, no birth partner allowed in if you have a c-section etc. In the NT, the level of English is not always that fantastic amongst the nurses/midwives.

Good luck with the move!

see link- there's a 5 bed in Clearwater Bay for HK$58k- could probably get them down a bit

www.hongkonghomes.com/property_search/search.php?sch_type=1&location=85&pr_from=0&pr_to=100000000&rt_from=40000&rt_to=60000&keywords=&page=1&rec_per_page=5&sort_by=3&action=1&mode=1&max_page=0#history_1

Thanks everyone soooo much for your perspectives on the move..

Mungo.. I hadn't realised quite how far out Sheung shui actually is.. Although it does seem a good location for my dh having to cross the border into China regularly? I haven't yet looked to see where the nearest ESF school would be to there in the NT - maybe Sha Tin?

Sha Tin school did look lovely on the website.

Roobag - It's so nice to find someone else who actually has a large family out there?! Everyone else I've spoken with including the relocation guy has almost gasped at the prospect of 5 children!! What ages are your children and do they attend the CW bay ESF there? I will be a stay at home mum and feel almost exhausted at the idea of 'starting again' and forging friendships etc. How has that been for you?

Bagged.. I had a feeling that was the case with hospitals there. I just feel that I ought to have baby here in august and then gear up to go. I'm thinking that it may be more realistic to try to get my older 2 children (6 and 4) a school place for jan 12 rather than september and keep them at home getting used to everything for 2 -3 months or so. I think we would struggle long term with the fees for the international schools. How does the academic level of the PYP compare with the british primary system has anyone found?

Many many thanks

I dont know about PYP personally as my son is a baby, but I have friends with kids in ESF who think it's pretty good.

I'm not sure if other posters would agree, but the impression I get is that ESF is a bit more "keeping it real" than some of the International Schools where a high proportion of kids come from extremely wealthy homes and there is quite a lot of "expat brat" behaviour- not poor behaviour at school but just bratty behaviour outside school- at parties/ play dates etc. I'm sure there are also some really lovely kids in those schools, but this is just what I've heard.

If you're going to be a SAHM, I'd definitely look to be in an expat enclave because, language aside, most Chinese mums do work FT (unless they're mega rich Tai tais) so it could be a bit lonely unless you can tap into the trailing spouse network.

Hi wetwelly

know how daunted you must feel, i did this a year ago with 4 weeks notice. Will give you my pennies worth and then please message me if you need any more info!

Homes - as has been suggested you need to relieve yourself of the expectation of the 5/6 bed home. You may get this and that is great but the area you move to will soley be decided by the school you choose. It is the complete norm here for children to share rooms, to get the most out of the space that a house/apartment offers.

Schools - your major problem. It was ours too. We also came from private school sector. Knock your ideals on the head! There are GREAT schools here but they are a world away from the small, cozy world of UK pre preps!
Frankly I would say if your husbands company want to move you that quickly (dont forget the new school year will have already started before you get here - mid August start)then you need to be talking to them about the possibilty of a debenture. Ridiculous money - nothing can justify it but it is the nature of the beast. We looked at Kellet but there were no debentures for us to puirchase at the time. this is the closest you will get to a UK prep school system tho. Got to say, I love being away from that now. My kids have a school with 40 different nationalities and even tho there are ALOt of students (900+) as opposed to 150 in UK, the pros outweigh the cons for me.
ESF schools are great - i loved The Peak and Clearwater Bay (both with strong PTA parent body) but I could not get both kids in and was not prepared for the younger one to wait it out at kindy (lots of kindys have P1 and P2 places available for kids who are on school waiting lists - good point to remember).
International schools. Pros and cons. I love ours. Yes, I agree with Bagged that there are a few international schools with reputations for "high maintenance" kids.But hey - its Hong Kong and theres a lot of that about!

Areas to live - as mentioned if you want the space - Sai Kung (CWB ESF). Cars needed. Alot of ferrying about with 5 kids!chances of getting both your kids into the school at same time - limited! you may be lucky with your yr 3 child and if they get in they will life the year 1 child way up the wait list becasue of sibling priority.
Discovery Bay - would be great for a family your size. No cars and lots of outside space to ride bikes and play out.Good choice of kindys too.Everything walkable distance and slightly better air quality than island. Only 20 mins by ferry to central and easy route to Kowloon side too.School is an issue - for direct entry would need a debenture - I think DBIS currently stands at $400,000 (yes you read that right!) and this gets you to the top of the wait list, notstraight in and is non refundable. there are also good kindys there that have P1 and P2 classrooms. know someone who has used this facility.
Discovery College is a private ESF - your child would be tested before offered a place. but good repuation.
Lantau International school is worth a look. Its a shack on a beach but its reputation is fantastic.

Have you looked at Hong Lok Yeun (New Territories)? This is a gated community with small plaza, town houses (for about 50K)club house. The school is great - HLK International.we really liked it but it was too far out for me. Good if your husband is going to mainland.Your nearest centre would be Sha Tin and you would need two cars. Your nearest train station I think would be Tai Po.

Overall - schools are a problem that even people I know who have been here for years face. Its part and parcel of HK life. Do not stress. Make the best judgements you can on areas and schools as I guess you are not coming over for look before the move? Make the decision and then wait it out. You will always find people in the same situation as yourself.
HK is a fab place - it is very friendly and an easy, safe place to raise kids.
Who is your relocator - bear in mind if it is a company like Jones Lang or Savills then they only show you whats on their books, you need to have a broader view. Take a look at Square Foot - a HK property website.

and yes - my advise as others have said.stay at home for birth. too much of a culture shock that far down the line and too much to organise with a move and schools etc!

Good luck!

My advice is try to get the school places sorted first. ESF class sizes are big, 30 children with one teacher and 1 EA. International School class sizes tend to be smaller, but not as small as UK fee-paying schools.

See if your hubby can negotiate corporate debentures to secure places in either an ESF or International School. This is really the only way to jump the waiting lists. All schools run school bus services, so that's a plus that it reduces the school run stress.

Also, see if hubby is able to negotiate club membership. The months from May to October are pretty hot here. It handy to have access to a nice swimming pool.

Have you looked at the following HK sites:

www.geobaby.com/

www.geokids.hk/

hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/

Hi Wetwelly,

we moved to HK about 16 months ago, and live in Shatin, and are very happy here. We have 3 boys, twins aged 4 and a younger one aged 2. I agree with what the other posters have said about Clearwater bay and also Sai kung, they are both lovely places with lots of expat stuff going on, restaurants, bars and so on, and have a lovely feel about them. You also tend to get more space for your money compared to HK island. Shatin is also great, but there are far less expats, although sai kung is an easy 25 min drive away, clearwater bay is only about 45 mins away. Tai po is lovely and again, you get more for your money space wise, but there are even fewer expats there, so bear that in mind if you want to be close to western shops and so on (although there are plenty of those in Shatin if you are after designer stuff - you have to go to kowloon tong to find the nearest Hennes for example). Hong Lok Yuen is a definite option as muffintummum said. hong lok yuen It is small unlike shatin junior or renaissance college (the main schools in shatin district) (which suits my boys as the twins are quite shy), has only 2 classes per year, has a really good sense of community spirit, involves parents and the community as much as it can and so on. It also teaches the international baccalaureate, and the teachers are excellent. They also have a playing field (sad but true, I do not know another HK school which has such a faciltiy as a field as there is such a lack of space, and it has grass on no less! I almost cried with delight the first time my boys came home with grass stains on their knees as it is so rare to see out here). My kids go there and I can't praise it enough, it is fabulous, and there is a lot more space there too (although again it is all relative. 'More space' in HK would mean 'quite cramped' in UK). HLY would also be very convenient for your husband if he was going across to shenzen all the time as it is well on the way out to the border crossing. It is one of the few places where you will get a house as opposed to a flat as well. We live on the Chinese university of HK campus so are only one MTR stop down from tai po. If you are after rural, tai po might be the way to go (there's still the odd paddy field and water buffalo to be seen out tai po way, and you would be more likely to get a house as opposed to a flat too). You would need a car though, especially with 6 kids (gold star for you on that front by the way, I'm very I'd love more, but my husband says no, no and NO!!) as villages in HK are not the same as in the UK. They have no infrastructure, so no shops, post office and so on, so you would need to travel to get anything done. Regarding hospitals, if you are in the new territories, there is the prince of wales hospital which is associated with the university (can't find a web site for it, sorry) and also the union which is private Union They are the nearest ones I know of to Shatin. I hope I have not put you off your coming move - we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it out here, and plan to stay for a good long while. I've only pointed out some of the more trying issues of living here as they seem to be the ones you are (quite understandably!) most concerned with right now(forewarned is forearmed after all), but if you give it a go, I'm sure you will be rewarded, as it is such an exciting, vibrant place to live, and we can't believe our luck at being here and being able to have such a fabulous experience together as a family. Please get in touch if you have any questions or just fancy meeting up once you've arrived. I'd be very happy to show you around and help out as best I can. Good luck with the move (and the arrival of number 6! Just to warn you, everyone will be amazed that all the children belong to you. I have enough trouble in having 3, people are always stunned by it, so you will knock 'em dead with 6!) Good luck with it all, and as I said, feel free to ask wawy as I'm very happy to help any way I can.

sorry, not 6 kids, 5, got a bit carried away there!