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Nice family cities in the UK

9 replies

italianmom · 08/02/2011 19:16

My husband has been offered a position with headquarter in Brussels. Since Belgium always ranks so high on "best places to bring up children" lists we were definaly thinking to relocate there.
It turns out though that we could really live everywhere in that part of Europe because he will be traveling for half the week anyway and he can work from home for 2 days.
If we choose to live somewhere in south England it would be so much easier because we speak the language. But then learning another language even though it's hard it could be very useful in the future.
But back to those "best places to bring up children" lists. England is always at the bottom of those lists. Why? Is it really bad?
I forgot to mention that we are currently living in California. California is also always at the bottom of those lists. There are reasons for it. But there are also some wonderful areas for families. And we are lucky to live in one of those.
I guess my question is: What areas in the south of England are great to raise children?
Now that you have lived abroad what do you think about raising children in the UK?
Thank you very much

OP posts:
natation · 08/02/2011 19:35

Ok I am far too biased. We moved from the south east of England to Brussels and I would rather slit my wrists than have the family return to the south east.

Where will your husband be paid from though, it might make a difference to where you choose to live? If he is paid in euro from Belgium, then he is going to be paying Belgian tax. It would make sense to live there, as then the tax bill can be reduced with childcare costs for example. If your husband is paid from another country, then it may be less financially efficient to live in Belgium.

PROS of Brussels
1 )small city, easy to get around with cheap and varied public transport, children free up to 12 years old, 12 + at very low cost, if working for a Belgian employer, transport costs are heavily subsidised and often free

  1. housing in some places can be expensive, but choose the right area and it will be far cheaper than the south east

  2. I've not had much experience of health care here, but what I have experienced the health services are on a par and sometimes better than UK

  3. local schooling is often excellent, far better than what we experienced in the south-east, but it may depend on the ages of children.

  4. drink and drugs to me are visibly alot less of a problem, rarely seen hoards of drunk and drugged teenagers, the only real druggies I've seen frequent the metro begging

  5. after school and holiday activities for children are without question better, you will have great problems choosing, south east you will find it hard to source affordable and varied activities

  6. forest on your doorstep in the south and east of Brussels, loads of parks with playgrounds aplenty

natation · 08/02/2011 19:35

PS sorry I cannot think of anywhere really nice to live in the south east.

Bonsoir · 08/02/2011 20:40

Kent west of Ashford (for the Eurostar terminal) has lovely villages and great schools and lots of activities for children. But you need to like a rural lifestyle. Lovely in summer, near the beach, lots of tennis and cricket etc, but über quiet in winter.

italianmom · 08/02/2011 22:41

So natation, are you going to be in Belgium indefinally? I have just being thinking about what would happen if our move become permanent. Do you think your children will have a good future in Belgium?

About taxes it looks like at first we will actually still pay taxes in the US, but in the future we might have to start pay taxes in Belgium. I am still trying to figure out how we can qualify for health care in Belgium if we don't pay taxes there. We don't have all the details yet. Luckily we have several months to sort everything out.

I still hope to get some more info about the UK though. Last time I was there as a tourist I really enjoyed it. But lately all I hear about it is negative. What happen?

OP posts:
natation · 08/02/2011 23:13

I'm not really the best person to give a reasonable comparison between south-east England and Belgium, I just dislike the breakdown in parts of society in the UK, there is a huge underclass there of people on benefits, it creates alot of resentment among those middle income earners who are just about able to look after themselves and their families. But mainly we like it better here because our children have more opportunities to do sports after school, more freedom, more autonomy.

If you are living in Belgium but being paid in a different currency, you can opt into the social security system, that gives you entitlement to health care. You still pay monthly health insurance too, it is not huge though, we pay under 10 euro a month for a large family. My employeur includes optional hospitalisaiton insurance as part of my contract, so anything not covered by basic health insurance gets covered by the hospitalisation insurance.

Family life and values are still quite strong here, as far as I can see alot stronger than in the UK. Fathers where families have split in the main play an equal part in their children's life, it's the norm to have 50/50 care, "family" is very very important. It sounds old-fashioned but I like their values. UK does seem to have lost its way in this respect. I'm sure Belgium may go the same way eventually.

The tax system here can be quite cruel to single people and families with just 1 or 2 children, paying 50% tax ans social security in this situation is not unusual. 3 children + is quite advantageous, it's no surprise families with 3 or 4 children are quite normal here, not only do you get more salary tax free but you can off-set an awful lot of child-care to reduce your tax bill. I have a tax allowance of somewhere like 20k tax free per year, would be lovely to make it to my limit!!

No idea if we are here long term, that is up to PM of the UK David Cameron who seems to have a vendetta against UK government employees based abroad and seems hell-bent on sacking a fair proportion of us.

Seriously check out the fact that USA does NOT have double taxation treaties with several countries in the world. For example, we are paid from the UK, we pay our taxes there, we still have to declare them here, but we pay no tax on our UK income to Belgium. This is because of a double taxation treaty. Whereas for US residents, money from US companies is taxed on a world-wide basis. If you are living in a country where teh US has not signed a double taxation treaty, then you pay tax again on the same income to whatever country you are living in. I'm no expert, but that's how I understand it works.

Oh one last thing, child benefit here is exceptionally generous to families in Belgium for families with 3 or more children. We get over 800 euro per month, it pays for our grocery bill. We could also opt for the UK child benefit, but that would give us only 300 euro per month. So that's another reason why I cannot say the UK is a great place for families to live, it's not for anyone with more than 2 children.

LongtimeinBrussels · 09/02/2011 01:03

natation, how many dcs do you have to get ?800? We have three and "only" got ?586 before ds1 stopped studying. My dh has been paying 50% tax and social security with a dependent wife (you get a tax allowance for this in Belgium italianmom) and three dependent dcs. It'll be even more now that ds1 is no longer studying! He is self-employed though and I know that has an impact.

italianmom, there seems to have been a bit of a breakdown of society. Maybe it's that there are more separated families nowadays, more families where the parents have never worked and hence that's the children's idea of what is normal. Lack of jobs doesn't help. It's happening all over Europe I think but the UK seems to be leading the way. There is actually plenty of it here in Brussels but the expats and better off Belgians tend to live to the east and parts of the south of Brussels and rarely venture over to the "other side" where there are plenty of rougher areas/problematic schools etc. Living over this side you don't see it much but it is reported in the papers.

Family values are very strong here. I think this is great but it does make it more difficult to make friends with the Belgians as it takes a lot longer for them to accept you into their circle. However there are certainly more children in dd's year with divorced/separated parents (she's 11) than there were in either of my ds's classes in the same year (they're 22 and 19).

My parents live in Hampshire and there are, as Bonsoir says, some lovely little villages in the south. However housing would be very expensive in these areas as they are greatly sought after. Housing here is cheap in comparison (unless you want to buy as then there are large taxes to pay).

natation, I thought the double tax treaty meant that you paid taxes in the UK, the Belgian tax authorities looked at what you'd paid and if you would have paid more in Belgium (which is likely to be the case I suspect with the tax rates here) then they could take that extra from you. Have I misunderstood?

natation · 09/02/2011 12:34

Longtime, you are sort of right, for me I pay tax in both countries as I work each year 2 different jobs. The UK takes its tax, then I declare the net income to the Belgian Fisc, they add it too my Belgian earned income, they cannot tax again that income but it can mean I pay more tax on the Belgian income, thankfully I don't as I am still under the threshold at which I start paying. Hubby earns only from the UK, declares it to Belgian Fisc, gets a nil return.

Back to nice places to live, perhaps Faversham or Canterbury if you are looking for more than a pretty village, somewher ea bit bigger?? It really depends on the ages of the children though, grammar schools are on the whole excellent in Kent, but if the children are already over the age of 11, it's harder to get a place in them as the places are already taken!!! Canterbury has at least very good facilities in the city, if you can't get a grammar place at one of the 3 grammars, there is an excellent Catholic secondary which is "comprehensive" in intake. Some of the primaries are a bit :-< in the city, you would need to choose wisely. Faversham is much smaller, very provincial, quite quaint in the town centre, but close to London, not too far to travel to catch the Eurostar from Ebbsfleet to Brussels.

lalamom · 13/02/2011 10:09

Tunbridge Wells or Cantebury both lovely and if you can get kids into Grammar Schools for senior- they are excellent and equivalent to private schools-some have a broad admission- say 25% of applicants who take the 11 plus entrance exam. Quick access to ashford for transport links too.

natation · 13/02/2011 11:43

Things to take into account if you are thinking of commuting from south east of London to Brussels.

Train to Brussels leave from either Ebbsfleet (closer to London) or Ashford. You can go up to London but that does make the journey longer, perhaps even twice as long.

Travel time to/from Ashford and to/from Brussels is approximately 90 minutes. Only 1 train in the morning from Ashford to Brussels, one train in the evening back to Ashford.

Travel time to/from Ebbsfleet and to/from Brussels is approximately 105 minutes. 3 trains a day in morning/early afternoon from Ebbsfleet, 4 trains a day in the afternoon/evening back to Ebbsfleet.

Eurostar timetable here

Canterbury is a nice place to live and is directly train connected to Ashford.

Faversham is directly train connected to Ebbsfleet.

Tunbridge Wells is very pretty but unfortunately property is even more expensive there and no direct train connection to either Ashford or Ebbsfleet, car is a more practical option. Tonbridge nearby is directly connected to Ashford however.

This map is very helpful in seeing where to connect by train with Ebbsfleet and Ashford
here

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