HELP PLEASE all those in Germany......

[ilovespinach]

Hi :)

I am calling for advice from all those living in Germany again.....

We has ds1's vorschule untersuchung for the last year of kindergarten today. Whilst I was expecting it throw up some problems I wasn't expecting it to go quite so badly.

Language or rather the lack of it is the main problem. DS1 has been attending a German speaking kindergarten now for 2 years but only has very basic speaking and understanding. Neither dh or I speak fluent German and we only speak English at home. Naively I believed it when the kindergarten said that English at home and then German at kindergarten would be enough to get ds through. Not sure if it helps that the kindergarten ds goes to is full of auslanders.....

I will speak with the kindergarten tomorrow about this. Has anyone here been in a similar situation? I understand that kids pick up language quickly but what do you do when that very cleary isn't the case? Are there any institutes that can help?

Of course this raises up the question of moving back to the UK. Feeling very worried about my sons future.

Need to go in the shower so cant write a long reply at the mo but there should be addditional language classes for ur ds since neither of his parents are german. We didnt qualify for this since dh is german.

Try to organise play dates with german kids, let him watch german tv, enroll him in sport where he has to speak german. You might need to just increase his exposure to the language.

Will write a longer message later !

thanks :)

He goes to sportschule once a week. I am checking out what classes eg art, music, we can get him into to increase his exposure.

I just didn't expect the meeting to go quite so badly.

I'm also worried that it might go beyond exposure :( I can see that Ds2 who has been going to kindergarten for just 3 months is picking the language up so quickly. So worried for ds1 :(

Hi. In Switzerland but have had similar problems. I second Canella- he should get extra German classes. We had this 3 times a week. German TV also works (for me too!). You can read easy books in German to him and explain words. You could also pay an adult or organise some kind of exchange with an adult friend who could have him for an hour a week to speak German to him. This is great.
People do make too much of small kids picking up languages quickly- I have 4 and I can tell you, it really does depend on the child. The other thing is- what is being recommended? Because if it is an extra year in Kindergarten or a slower-moving first class done over 2 years rather than 1, is this really too big a price to pay for future bilingualism? Don't despair of his future yet!

My DS sounds fairly similar to yours in that we are an English speaking family and he has been at German KG for 2 1/2 years. His German seems good and everyone tells me he has no problems. I notice that he doesn't translate very well sometimes-eg if I say can you go and tell your football trainer xyz he asks me if I can do it, but he babbles away relentlessly (and unendingly!) if it is something he wants to say!
He has only had an informal untersuchung with the school so far which didn't throw up any problems although he did have to think a bit and was a little slow sometimes to respond.

How many hours does your son go to Kiga? I noticed a huge difference when DS started to go for a full day. We are also lucky that the Kindergarten has almost all German native children. Can you find a teenager to babysit, read stories, play games at home?

Not sure if any of that helps but I am sure he will 'get it' eventually. It is not always as easy as people think though and I know what you mean about worrying if they will reach their potential. However I always think that they are being stretched in a different way and hopefully it will come together!

I live in France and second other posters: different children have very different capacities for picking up a second (or third or fourth) language and while some are fluent within a few months of starting school, others take years.

Agree that TV/DVDs (check the quality of the language) help a lot.

spinach, I suggest going to HNO-Arzt and getting his hearing checked.

How is his English?

Rather than start school with a language deficit, I would personally recommend staying at KIGA another year, and if need be, employ someone to read to him/work with him in German a couple of times a week.

He would be ok in year 1 anyway since they don't do that much but by year 2, he could find that he is struggling to keep up with the work unless his German skills have improved. Then you get into situations where they may decide to make him repeat a year etc and I would try to avoid that.

how old is he spinach? dc2 was a "kann kind" last year for school but he hasnt picked german up as quick as my other 2 dc so we kept him back a year so he'll start school just before his 7th birthday next september - this seemed like an easy and common decision to make. Out of the 8 dc in our village who could have gone to school only 4 went in the end so i wouldnt stress about keeping him back a year if that helps to improve his German. (and my ds has really benefited from that extra year - his german is definitely better!)

I agree with the other posters - not all kids pick up languages easily - the same way not all adults can learn a second language but you really need to ask the kiga to investigate getting him some additional lessons.

i agree with trockodile - it might be an idea to increase his hours at kiga but it depends whether you think he's not getting the exposure because of the other non native speakers.

Did he have his U9 at the Arzt? Did they recommend any speech therapy or anything else or did they think it was just a german problem? I agree with Zzen - maybe he needs a proper assessment of his hearing?

Did the kindergarten have anything to say today about it?

Hello ilovespinach. Not in Germany but in France and we had very similar issues with DD when she started school. Turned out to be very serious underlying issues (not suggesting for a moment this is the case with your DS) i.e. language disorder. HOWEVER, age six she is now fully bilingual. Huge delay in both languages but both improving daily. We also considered going back to the UK at the time but for all sorts of reasons stuck with it and it has paid off for us. All kids get there in the end, it seems, but it is very frustrating when people expect kids to pick it all up with no effort at all. It can also depend on your child's character: the easygoing ones start speaking the new language straight away and don't worry about making mistakes, the shy ones or ones who are afraid of failure tend to take their time to make sure they can speak correctly.

When you say there are a lot of auslander in the Kita, are they English speaking? Does the Kita get any extra funding to help with language difficulties?

Speak to your pediatrician about a hearing test.

Also - were you at the vorschuluntersuchung? I found that the tests that the Kita did with DS when he was 4yo (it was a assessment to see if he was going to need assistance, kind of vorvorschultest) was difficult for children who spoke a different language at home.

Although DS spoke fluent German, there were some words that he was not familiar with (because we didnt use these particular words at home).

What bundesland are you in? Assistance varies from land to land.

I agree mmelindt- there was a picture of an apron in ds1's test but he'd never used that word in german!! But he could say it in english but they dont care about that!!

Hi, I have 3dc, one in Gymnasium, one in fourth class and one in first. The kindergartenuntersuchung has definitly got stricter in the last years. My first daughter started school, having mixed with only English-speaking friends, and it was seen as o.k (she went on to be the best of her class at German!) Last year my smallest had problems getting through the untersuchung (even though her German language is better than her siblings was at that age)Being more experienced thesedays(!) I pushed for her to start school and have now seen, with no surprise, that she has settled in extremly well and has best marks on Mathes! Due to her lisping, I take her to Logopadie which is brilliant and it seems that half the village children are also attending too..certainly helps with the German "R" though! Hope this helped.

thanks everyone for your very helpful replies :) It really good to hear that your dc's have overcome any issues and are doing well :) I have calmed down a little bit now :)

ds is 4.8. He was a slow starter to talk in English. I think he has good language skills now. He still makes mistakes especially with plurals, but nothing that's above the normal mistakes kids of that age make.

I had a meeting with the kindergarten the day after the untersuchung and they suggested we contact the doctor after we return from England (if the flight goes but that's a different story) and get a referrel for a logopedie (sp) as it's not just the language but also the prononciation.

We also need to get his hearing checked out. I alreay have a recept for a HNO. Kindergarten also said that ds is now good friends with a German boy in the group who speaks very well and that we ask if he can come to play in the afternoon (kg closes at 2). We will also look for a new group in the afternoon to increase his exposure to German.

I have no problem at all with an extra year in kindergarten if that's what he needs.

Interestingly I have heard that all of the parents, even the German ones, found the second lady in the untersuchung very harsh. I was surprised at the length of the test.

thanks everyone again.

Why is he going to school in sept if he's only 4.8? Surely he'd not be due to go till sept 2012?

Hi Canella, Sept 2012 is right. All the kids in the kindergarten ds1's age have had the same test.

Are you in NRW? That test was introduced the year that we left Düsseldorf.

Don't worry about it. DD was referred to a speech therapist by our paediatrician, despite the kindergarten teacher saying she would almost certainly grow out of her speech problems.

He wanted to send DS too, but we were moving to Geneva. He told us not to put DS into Swiss school as he would not cope with a third language. DS is now trilingual.

The Germans are very therapy-happy. Which is great if you have a child that really benefits from it but not so good for the borderline DC who would be fine if left alone. It just gets the parents all worried about nothing in many cases.

i dont know anything about that test - maybe it hasnt got to bayern yet!! my ds2 is in the same age group - he's 4.4 and will go to school in sept 2012 and i havent even started to think about what he'll be like then! thats a whole 18 months away which is about the time that we've been in Germany and the amount of language development he (and my other ds) have made in 18 months is astounding. I agree with Mme Lindt - they wanted to send ds1 to Logopaedie as he wasnt rolling his R's the way they do here! 6 months later he does it probably half the time but since i dont do it, i dont think its a problem!

But it sounds like your ds needs more exposure to German and you sound like you've got some good ideas of ways to do that. Maybe Logopaedie might be a good idea for him if it puts your mind at rest.

Think its also normal for children that age to make mistakes in any language! my dc make mistakes in English - "i catched the ball", I eated my dinner" but if they hear the right words often enough then they'll say it right in the end (IMO!)

Canella
They introduced the test in NRW to try and catch the children who were not hearing/speaking well before the Vorschuljahr. The idea is that if there is an unidentified problem, the test will catch it and therapy can be offered so that the child does not go into Vorschul or school already behind.

From what I remember it was brought in mainly to help immigrant children who had no (or little) exposure to German outwith Kindergarten. There had been problems as some children were going to school with very little German language skills and finding school a real struggle.

seems like a good idea but it just adds to the therapy-happiness that is ingrained in Germans already!