One more moving to Brussels :)

[ShutterNutter]

Hi everyone! Found this site a few days ago and I see that some of you live in Belgium :-)

My husband has been transferred to Brussels for 3 years, which is great and we are looking to move early next year. We have 2 little girls 5 & 6 .
We have been in Brussels for 8 days now school & house hunting. I tell you it has not been easy. We just can't decide were to live. After looking at quite a few houses we have come down to two.

The first house we are deciding on is in Ixelles near all the shops, it has no garden (not even a little patch) and no parking which is a bit of a pain driving round and round trying to find one after a long day of work. On the plus side the house is near Tenbosch Park and another big play ground that I can easily walk the girls to, also all the restaurants and shops.

House number 2 is in Watermal-Boitsfort, it is bigger and newly renovated, plenty of parking but the nearest shop (which is 2 supermarkets) is 1.5km away. Not crazy far, but far enough not to make the area very exciting or have anything fun to walk to.
One of the things that appeal to me coming to Europe is the fact that you don't have to get into your car just to get milk. I really enjoy walking and was looking forward to be able to walk to the corner store to get milk or whatever. Also living in a quaint, pretty european style street is very appealing.
DH understandably wants it to be an easy commute to work (Auderghem) and back and to the girl's school (we are deciding between BEPS and ISB) and the Watermal house would certainly provide that. It also has a garden for the girls. The downside is that this house is just surrounded by big offices and buildings and some embassies.

So, after all that rambling ... having lived in Brussels for a while, would you go for the more lively location and walkable locations, but smaller house and no garden, or the bigger house with a garden but not very exciting surroundings but closer to work and schools?

I probably won't have car for the first 6 moths or so but will probably get one later. DH will have car and will be traveling quite a bit with his job. I'll be a stay-at-home mom.

Thanks for any input!!

Signed, indecisive Crazy Rambler ;-)

Hi ladies,
I will sure tell my husband about E411
Natation I just found this cheap house at Overijse today and in Leuven recently I find cheap and nice places so no particular reason for looking there I just mentioned these two places.
You see we have not decided on a specific area, we are just looking for a nice two bedroom apt or house for maximum 750 per month. Of course we would prefer something in an area that my husband can commute relatively easy to his job. Since our budget is limited though, we would consider finding something more far away from brussels since my husband will be able to commute by train bus or tram. We will have a car but I don't think driving to brussels in the morning is a nice thing to do to yourself:)
It seems very difficult for us to decide which are the best areas. We will find the maps and try to concentrate on certain areas.
How much time do you think my husband will need to actually find a place? He would like to find one as soon as possible so our family will not be apart for too much time
Concerning the guarantee he will need to have a belgian bank account or he just deposits the money to the owner's bank account with the first months' rent?
Any other tips concerning rental agreements? It seems that Belgian owners are really scary. We were thinking of asking for a three year contract since we hope our financial situation will be better and we will have the opportunity to move to a bigger house after three years

You will need a Belgian bank account. We set up our ING account before we moved - they are used to expats and it was simple. The guarantee is held in a locked account in YOUR bank. ING offered us the facility of a guarantee without us actually handing over any cash. It's kind of loan yet not a loan. This costs us about 50 euros per year. The standard lease here is 9 years, but you can leave after 3 with no penalty - before that you have to pay 3,2,1 months rent respectively.

Leuven is lovely - very nice shops and lots of restaurants. If you can get to the railway station easily it is about 40 mins to central Brussels. Many of my work colleagues commute MUCH further than that.

Don't think that moving further away from Brussels will get you cheaper prices. Do factor in transport costs plus travel time. If you are happy with an apartment of 80m2 2 beds, then in fact there is quite a choice in the eastern communes at 750 euro including charges (so you might get hot water, heating included in price). Here is just one example, but you'll find others like it in 1150, 1200, 1160, 1170, 1030, 1040 communes. This one is in supposedly one of the most desirable areas of Brussels, it's almost opposite a very popular school with French and Dutch sections. It's a 3 minute walk to Stockel metro.
www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3490716&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1#onglet

The very shortest time to find a place, sign contracts, arrange security deposit, moving etc will be 2 weeks, that's knowing exactly where to look, having appointments arranged in advance.

A season ticket Leuven - Brussels on the train is just over 1000 euro for 12 months, but most employers will subsidise a great part of that - ask how much. A single journey between Brussels and Leuven is 4.80 euro. A season ticket for Brussels region for metro, bus and tram is 478 euro, again employers will subsidise a great part of that.

Do you have any idea where your husband is likely to need to drive to with his work too? That could be quite a deciding factor as to where around the Brussels region you would settle? For example, if he will be often driving to northern France, then the west side of Brussels would be better, if off towards Antwerp or Netherlands, the north side, if off towards Liege and Germany, the east side would be better.

Portofino what you say for ING is very interesting, I will check it. Also good to hear that we can leave the place after three years with no penalties. I realize that a nine year contract is better than a shorter one because of the guarantee. If we decide to leave the owner will inspect the house and charge us for the cost of damages? Before renting the place we can inspect the house on our charges or the owner will pay for it? What energy consumption would be good?
I have the impression that living inside Brussels it will feel like living in the central of Athens no green a few parks and very crowded. I know that in fact Brussles do have a lot of parks and children facilities. It is just that we are not used to this because we live in a very quite suburb of Athens with lots of space, playgrounds, we take our bikes and go for a nice walk.
For example when I visit my relatives in Belgium, who live in Sint Pieters Leeuw close to Halle, I love it. Nice neighborhoods, parks, beautiful houses and appartments and close to Brussels. I understand that such an area might not be practical for other reasons like commuting, transportation costs, schools etc.
Of course we are always checking the areas close to my family at immoweb so if we find something there our quest will end shortly.
In the meantime I am counting on your help for other areas.

There are lots of parks and green spaces in Brussels - I wouldn't worry too much. Normally when you move in and out, a surveyor comes to do the "Etat des Lieux" = this is a very detailed report of the state of the property. And I mean VERY detailed - if there is a scratch on the paintwork, or an appliance, it is recorded.

That flat is a bargain, natation. We will move in a couple of years - and I want something cheap, 3 beds though....

i have never been to Athens but I'm a frequent visitor to London and know Edinburgh pretty well (capital Scotland) plus Paris. Brussels is very quiet in comparison to London and Paris, more like Edinburgh.Take a look at google earth to see the large park areas in the north (Laeken), south (Uccle) and east (WSP) just as examples. I only know my own area very well which is WSP and it's about 1/3 park area and our house is 1km from a huge wood which stretches for kms and kms yet we are 20 mins by tram/metro to the Grand'Place. From our house you can cycle into the forest or the opposite direction along a lovely old railway cycle path to the city centre. There are over 20 playgrounds in our commune of 40,000 and 3 parks - Parc de la Woluwe, Parc Parmentier, Parc des Scources. Where Porto lives is even more rural yet it is just outside Brussels and there is a bus directly into the city.

Don't whatever you do accept a fixed 1,2 or 3 year contract with no "get-out" clause as your rights are poor compared to a 9 year contract and you need to be sure you will stay for the duration of the contract, whereas the 9 year contract you can at least break with penalties in the first 3 years. You will have to pay half the cost of entry inspection and exit inspection, so expect 200-300 euro there. Don't be surprised if damages end up at over 1 months rent, if it is less then you are doing really well.

Look out for newer looking boilers and double glazing. Rental properties now have to come with energy certificates. I don't know how reliable these area. However we have moved from a house with single glazing and an old boiler, to a house with double glazing and brand new boiler. Our annual fuel bill was 3600 euro at our old house, in the new one, we hope to almost half that to 1800 or 150 euro a month, might just be a little more. That's gas and electricity.

One last thought before choosing area is to decide language of schooling. Brussels is somewhere around 90% French speaking now and I read recently that the number of those classing themselves as ethnic "Moroccan" is about to overtake the number of those classing themselves as "Flemish" first language -that was to illustrate that the Dutch speakers are very much being squeezed by the French ones further out into Vlaanderen, but there is still the choice of Dutch or French schools. In Vlaanderen, eg Zaventem, St Pieters Leeuw, Leuven, there are only Dutch language schools.

www.eupedia.com/belgium/population_statistics_brussels.shtml
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_Density_in_Athens.PNG

Porto, here is another bargain house near Place Dumon ....... downside is that the landlady would not give us a 9 year contract on this place, ah well it seems like the tenants she did find have not lasted even 6 months there!!!! You can get however a 3 bed near us in an excellent condition for 1300 euro or less if you strike lucky.
www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.estate.cfm?idbien=3516308&ongletactif=2&jpgnameinp=3516308_5.jpg&xincludedetail=2&xgallery=gallery&mycurrent_section=Rent&xbg=N#onglet

Zimaroulis, that apartment in WSP I linked to is 48 rue Jean-Baptiste Lepage, 1150. If you look on google maps, you will see how close it is to the 2 local schools, ie about 20m!!! It's also right next a small shopping centre, about 200m away, with supermarket where the entrance to Stockel metro is, about 150m to the nearest playground, about 300m to the old railway cycle path which goes into the city centre and also leads to a sports centre, 3 or 4 more playgrounds along that cycle path.

Natation can you explain to me about schools in Brussels?
Lessons are in French altough Brussels belongs to the Dutch part?

We decided as a first choice to look for an apt inside Brussels and then as a second choice we will be looking at Sint Pieters Leeuw or Halle

Brussels Region is officially bi-lingual so you will find French and Dutch speaking schools. A lot of French speaking families put their children into Dutch schools - the standards are considered to be higher and they subsidise more - I believe that parents can only be asked to pay 25 euros per year per child for "extras" -books, stationary, trips etc.....In the French system you pay for all this. For Primary aged children you get an extra 50 euros child benefit in August to "help" towards the cost.

Hi portofino, yes I know that Brussels is bilingual so I will try to look for a Dutch speaking school. Are there such in Brussels?
I have heard the Dutch schools are quite rigid and strict? Is this true?
Our son is 4.5 years old speaks only Greek and he is a very sensitive and shy little boy. I really want to find a school that will help him to adjust at the beginning that is my biggest concern

I thnk Belgian schools in general are strict - well at least as compared to the UK. He will start in 2/3 Maternelle/Kleuterklas depending on when he turns 5. Maternelle is generally a lot more easy going with lots of learning through play. Natation is the local schools expert.....

I would be very cautious about choosing a Dutch speaking school in Brussels, because you may find many schools with such high percentages of French speaking children in them, it will be a case of French in the playground and when the teachers are not listening and Dutch in the classroom, that is not ideal when your child speaks neither Dutch nor French. You don't get many non Belgian children in Dutch schools either, whereas in French schools, you can get 30+ nationalities in schools. The school opposite the apartment I linked to, Ecole Communale de Stockel has 30+ nationalities in the French school and many children arrive there with no French. In the Dutch school with which they share facilities and right next door, you will find close to 90% French Belgians and 10% Dutch speaking Belgians, maybe a handful of children neither French nor Flemish Belgian. I would however fully go for a Dutch speaking school if living in a Dutch speaking area such as Sint Pieters Leeuw, even though there are many French speakers living there now who send their children to school in French in Brussels - schooling as close as possible to home is always more desirable, sometimes it is not practical, but if you can do it, living and schooling nearby is surely better for little children.

In Brussels, Dutch is taught 2-4 hours a week from 3rd primary to end of secondary in French schools, French is taught (despite being usually mother tongue to majority anyway) from 3rd primary to end of secondary in Dutch language schools. You will however find many French schools in Brussels now start Dutch from 3rd maternelle, sometimes earlier, as the French community has woken up to the importance of the other main language in order to get on in life and for job prospects in Belgium. There are also many immersion programmes in the French schools now for children to learn Dutch, more than a couple of hours a week, where the children spend whole days or even the whole time in Dutch.

You will find no difference at all between Flemish community and French community schools when it comes to discipline.

Map of majority of French schools in Brussels, kindly made not be me but a parent searching for schools who passed it on to me.
batchgeo.com/map/6972012203999a3df3a7a5fb2902bcb7

Map of all Dutch language schools in Brussels/Tervuren.
batchgeo.com/map/0ab9b04d71432cbcbb02ab479275d4cf

Hallo ladies,

What's with the immoweb?
I called for two ads last week and they told me that they have been rented for quite some time now. Although I sent an email at immoweb one of them is still at their website and marked as new.
Anyway can you tell me about this area please?
immo.vlan.be/en/Detail/Duplex/to-rent/1080/Sint-Jans-Molenbeek/(VWA23865)

Many agents are rather unscrupulous and say places are rented, then often suggest somewhere else. If you ask in French or Dutch, you might indeed get a different response. Some agents however just can't be bothered to amend the adverts (take 2 or 3 minutes) and just leave the adverts to run until no longer valid.

Molenbeek is not the nicest commune, very deprived in Brussels terms, schools with high failure rates. Of course there will be a few places in the commune which are not so bad, that apartment looks fairly nice for Molenbeek.

Here is a map of with the 4 least deprived schools in Molenbeek, if the apartment is near these schools, I'd take it as having potential, otherwise, personally I'd leave alone. Appears there are 2 possible areas of Molenbeek not so bad to live in - 2 * 2 schools close together.

www.batchgeo.com/map/d2b84165ab28381de253981616091fbd

Compare this to the full map of schools in Brussels which shows all the local schools.
batchgeo.com/map/6972012203999a3df3a7a5fb2902bcb7

Thanks natation,

A friend of mine called who lives in brussels and she talked to him in French..

Could you please tell me about Ecole St. Job? My friend's son goes there and if we find an apt close to them we thought it would be nice for our boy to go at that school. Since they have almost exactly the same age they might even be at the same class and our son will be thrilled to have a familiar person at school

Zimaroulis, I know no-one at Ecole Communale de St Job, so I think your friend will be better qualified to advise you what the school is like. It's got quite a high rating in the "deprived/priviledged" index, as have most Uccle schools - Uccle has a varied housing stock but at its top end, it's the most expensive place to live in Brussels region, so it's no surprise that most schools score highly on this index. The school's website lists one class for each primaire and maternelle year, except mat 1 and mat 2 which have 2 classes per year, so at the moment, it's a relatively small school. Uccle is a big commune, both in terms of population and km2, so if you want to be near St Job, do check location of apartments before looking.

Thanks natation, yes it is quite expensive that is why we are looking at other communes in brussels as well.

Natation do you know among Sint Pieters Leeuw's schools which is the best?