Hong Kong or Singapore? Advice please??

[giddybiddy]

DH has announced a move to Asia might be imminent though exactly where not sure. He may be able to influence location but not sure where we should express a preference for.... Have three DDs all primary school age so schools are of paramount import. I have completely succumbed to being an expat wife so my work centers around making family life work where ever we are. Any advice on life style, schools, location would be really welcomed. Many thanks!

"baggedandtagged, have you heard of the harbour school?"

I have heard of it but I dont know much about it, or any of the HK schools in detail - sorry. My son is only a few weeks old so I have literally just fired off some applications to get us waitlisted in case we're still here when he starts school. Havent actually visited any of them yet- just gone on rec from a friend of mine who is a supply teacher here and a vague assumption that we'll still be living on the island as opposed to the mainland.

We dont get debentures as Dh on local contract so I'm using the scattergun approach

Hi baggedandtagged, sorry I should have recognised you from my old post! hope all is well. Weather was just gorgeous this week, we really enjoyed it this time.BAck to SG tomorrow for the countdown. 6 weeks to go!

Giddybiddy good luck with everything.

Hi,
Im also big Hong Kong fan have been here 17 years!
Re Schooling, this is a really big issue and probably once you have accepted the accomodation joke( size v cost) is really the biggest issue you face as an expat. You have to put names down as early as possible. Even with company debentures places are hard to find.

Kellet follows The British curriculum & for stumping up a huge debenture will usually find you a place.
My friends children are attending ESF schools and they have been really happy although places are hard to find mid term.I think some ESF schools hv already switched to IB.
My DC attend Lycee Francais, which like all the international schools requires an admissions test and interview as well as debentures and places do crop up throughout the year, although with DCs school the place has to be for the right candidate at the time in terms of gender place on the waitlist.
Expats arriving mid school year usualy have to accept ESF whilst pursuing International school places.
Quality of schooling is excellent, lifestyle much more dynamic than Singapore, more diverse range of expats in Hong Kong but have to admit Singapore is prettier! Either place Im sure youll have a great time.

Re Harbour school - there are much better options!!!!!

THK, what better options please please please, desperate measures and all right now. AM GOING IN 6 WEEKS AND LOOKS LIKE HOMESCHOOLING RIGHT NOW!

Hi Slim,
do you have your accommodation confirmed or know which area are you planning?
Not sure if your children are full British nationals or ages - ESF should be able to find you a place for the moment at least but don't tell them that of course.
Bradbury and West Island seem to have places so Im told. Gleaneally possibly. (friends a teacher)
the Hong Kong academy would be a better option than Harbour . did you visit Harbour school?
Canadian International - fabulous campus, may well have space as they are actively looking to rebalance the mix of overseas Chinese.
A close friend waited 2 terms for a place a German Swiss which wasn't bad going as it's one of the highly sought after schools although personally we weren't enthralled.
it may well more expats leave at Christmas so places become available.DCs school has already sent out the forms for withdrawal so sure other schools may have
done so too.
If your not going to be Hong Kong side- The Australian International school would be worth looking into.
Good Luck.
Girl in dds class entered without being wait listed, 2 terms later is leaving as she can't handle the intensive French and has secured a place at HKIS again no debenture on hand or wait list.
I truly believe its the parents who push that get bumped up the list and the wait list is a fall back.

This is so useful thanks. I have contacted all the schools who basically ask me to pay them lots of money without saying whether there is even the small chance of my 3 DDs getting in.... Just going on the websites I had shortlisted Kellett, Hong Kong Academy and the Canadian School but am not sure whether to wait til we visit in the Spring to apply or to just do it now and hope I like them... What do you think? We don't actually need places til next academic year, I am just trying to get as organised as I can.......

flying in tonight to finalize lease. DH not understanding the urgency to get ESF to cough up the place and they wont until address confirmed.
Wailtisted at HK academy since early summer and was there again 2 weeks ago on a 2nd tour to beg them but no place for mid year entry!
Same at Canadian. True, best campus by far.
We did pass the test and there was a place at gsis but did not like it at all. Would have meant starting in September which was not an option anyway.
french international said next year, impossible in january.
anyway, will be there first thing wednesday kicking a fuss and see what happens.

I saw the harbour school by the way and wanted to cry at first but after a full tour, was very impressed by their enthousiasm and use of limited resources. Great teacher ratio, the head of school is quite a lady.

Certainly not a "choice" per but a good option for a term or two.
I personnally thought HK academy seems to have no substance at all. They look like a happy bunch, but a bit too laid back. The head of primary kept referring to her various assistants during the 1h30mn tour as she did not seem to know what IB means....A it worrying as it was a big selling point i her pitch?

THK thank you for the update, thought there would be something new to consider!

Giddy, apply apply apply. certainly Kellet and the Canadian. Both have great facilities and are very sound academically.

Slim good luck- definitely don't just accept the brush off re wait lists it's definitely not what they make them out to be it's all about being persuasive and getting beyond the war offices ( admissions staff)
If youre really desperate and can afford it then some schools such as Kellet do offer places in leiu of a school donation. really crappy as it's makes a mockery of selective admissions! Of course schools don't readily advertise this and sums involved are usually around the H$1 mill. Depends on how desperate you are and if company will contribute?
Re GSIS - keep in mind school starts at 7 and finishes at lunchtime.
If I was in your shoes I would push for ESF simply because International schools are selective and I think they would be less inclined to take a child from Harbour over an ESF student - Harbour has no recognition here.
Kellet isn't known for academic prowess so if Kids are smart consider this point. It is usually a fall back
school for expats with$$ who's Kids don't get into an
International school and whos parents want more
prestige than ESF. It's lovely and fluffy as parents are
paying a bugger load for the school.
Depending how long you plan to stay Kellet isn't really a through school although it has recently offered a seconday section however this is in the new terrritories
ESF secondary do not usually accept Kellet children
as they don't generally meet ESF standards. harsh but
true I have a couple of friends who have had to send children to boarding school from Kellet as they simply
couldnt find secondary places for them .
My choices would still be
FIS - although admin and organisation is ropey it's education is great but the school still feels
approachable unlike some of the more glitzier schools
Follows IGCSE and IB .
GSIS : academically very good but school/ style for me would take adjustment -they are very unapproachable
HKIS : American curriculum but academically strong
and very big on community culture. Not for shrinking
violets.
Canadian : love this school. Now IB but ratio of Chinese to western still not well balanced and most children are being prepared for Canadian or American University . Still think this is a great school with fabulous ethos.
Chinese International - this was our 2nd choice as we want our children to be fluent chinese but we decided against it finally as 90% children are Chinese and with the best will in the world integration is limited. ( hired home tutor instead)
failing all above ESF Bradbury , Gleneally, Peak
Then HK Academy , do know 2 children attending here and feedback is positive.
Sorry so long but hope it's helpful
lastly Harbour as a true last resort.

THK, that was a great way to sum it up.

Exactly the feedback have had from everyone.

so basically need to push for ESF while I wait for FIS (we are native french speakers FGS! both DH and I former french lycee and that does not seem to help either).

x

Slim - I feel so frustrated for you.
In DD2s year we have had 5 new children 4 of which came direct from overseas & jumped the local waitlist. ( which as parents makes us roll our eyes as we are always reminded how selective the school is and how there are lots and lots of children waiting to join)!!!
No French background so they are in the beginners level despite Y5 which the school on paper says they dont do.
1 child transffered from Bi-ligual because there wasnt a male child waitlisted to fill the place.
Have you got a strong enough referrel letter from current school, could Yr DC school "highly recommend " etc etc.
Let me know how it goes Im thinking of youX

THK, what you say about Kellett is interesting re secondary as my eldest is about to start Secondary school and is academic. Which of the ESF secondary schools have a good reputation, do you know? My concern about HK Academy is that they are only just beginning to expand at the older end of the scale, but they have been the most approachable! I had thought that FIS wouldn't be an option as we don't have any French connections (well a French brother in law!) but maybe that shouldn't be a consideration?!

PS, Good luck Slim, it must be so stressful, hope it works out soon!

Good morning giddy
Island school is the best ESF secondary followed by South island then West Island West Island .
FIS and GSIS secondary always have places in F2 as a number of children will go to boarding school at 11 and 13 so if your child has studied French or German previously you would stand a good chance of entry to respective school.
Not sure if KG5 is ESF but they always come very highly in the results tables.I don't know anyone attending either so can't give more info!

Giddy just checked and KGV is ESF.
It's on Kowloon side which is probably why I don't know anyone attending. But if you check their results it's a very good school.
Re ESF just a tip in case you have narrowed which school- it isn't unheard of for people to " borrow" addresses in order to fit the catchment area.
In the extreme( I say extreme given the cost of housing here) I do know 1 family who rented a tiny apartment they didn't live in for 6 months in order to get into school.

Giddy- If ESF would choose SouthIsland. Nicer than island& have read your OP and think as an expat SAHM you will most likely end up living on the Southside.

If you want more opinions of parents with children in the schools to help you check out asiaxpat
( choose hong kong forum)if you haven't already and stick a post on there.
Education here is a very personal issue given that many schools are selective & with limited places parents views can be tainted by which school accepted or rejected dear Johnny!!!

THK- just wanted to say thanks for this very comprehensive info.

Just a couple of quickies- we have put a few apps in for DS (who is 8 wks old- insane i know). My current pref is the Canadian. When you say it's not that well balanced, do you mean dominated by westerners or dominated by Chinese?

Also, I havent applied to the Lycee yet based on rumours that there is quite a lot of bullying and discipline can be poor. However, this came from someone who left HK a while ago. Would you say that that is in any way true now? You clearly really like it so maybe I should rethink.

TIA

Ok, just been the fis and no chance at all just yet. Basically corporate debenture places us at n.14 on list and that is entry in 2012 at best!
No french passport no entry at this moment. One of my estate agents is French and just this month she has 3 french families relocating from Tokyo who will get priority anyway even if they have just applied.

Will update you tomorrow on my visit to esf.

Hong kong academy is more approachable but that said, they can't work miracles and it seems they have too many Brits for their liking.
I do like their ethos of being inclusive And truly internAtional but it's all a bit confusing because at the same time they do seem to be segregating exactly for the same reasons.
The selection process is so random that there is very little predictability on the outcome.

Housing still not sorted as dh being a bit precious. He wants a house, I want a condo so kids can have playmates. Hate the whole club scene so need facilities on my doorstep as will myself never set foot in the club.

Giddy, despair not, but do play all the cards you have well ahead of coming. If somehow you can still make it to Singapore, do not hesitate to shout, I know my way around things there.

Agree you definitely want to be on the south side. No doubt in my mind !

Giddy for fis I enquired about dd's application. She should start reception in September 2011 but because of their cut off date she would only sart at 4.5 years old in 2012!
basically they said she would be accepted before ds whose already on the waiting list and would then give him sibling priority.
They currently have wAiting list for 2014 entry for reception. If we were to apply for her today to start in September 2012 she would be n.112 on the list and they basically only have 50 places to offer.

I have heard rumors about bullying etc...
A product of the french lycee myself and can honestly say that there is no bullying as such. But the ethos is very different from the British system you are used to. Children are treated more like adults and yes are expected to "grow up ffs!" . The teachers will definitely not be sensitive and caring but rather like academic mentors.

Slim22- that's good to know. I have a pathological fear of bullying but am happy with a school that encourages maturity

Bagged and tagged: in 6 years we haven't come across any bullying at FIS! Having only 2 classes per year the parents all know each other very well and it wouldn't be something that would escape the radar.
All the kids are from educated middle class backgrounds and by nature of the school come from families who are keen on education.( you have to be as your children are expected to keep up and there is constant homework).
We registered our 2 at birth, youre not crazy. A dear friend who was a head teacher told us of a lady submitting her application with a 16 week scan attached!

Having known so many cases of children jumping waitlists I don't believe schools strictly adhere to them.

Slim- A house on the Southside would be fabulous. Club culture is very big here and unavoidable. Most children have so many extra activities that clubs are generally where they all meet. Parents with Boys are usually Cricket club or Football club members as many extra curricular Rugby/Football etc takes place there. ( tap and ballet too) Aberdeen Marina club although very impersonal and iMO large characterless is big with Southside families for ice skating , drama and dance and the adventure zones!
The American club in Stanley is where most
Americans hang out.
I think Bagged would have the same feeling re clubs here ??
Parents with houses are popular as we all love the children have the chance to play in a garden !!!!

Bagged: re Canadian
75% are currently Chinese Canadian passport holders.
At the time we were applying the school only followed the Canadian curriculum which is why finally we didn't select it.it's now IB but geared towards American Universities .
Our very close friend was the headmaster until last year and we were so tempted as the teachers, facilites and culture are excellent.
Don't limit yourself since you hv time on your side register with all the schools you are considering. You can always take yourself off the lists!!

Slim- just a thought have you looked at Parkview .
It's the only development I can think of that would give decent on site facilities.
Although I'm with your husband- I'd love a house!

Hi there

thought I would add my thoughts in as we did this over a year ago and it is stressful.I have not read all the posts so excuse me if I am reapeating what others have said!

You can get your name down for EFS. You need to pick one school as your choice. if you dont end up in this area you will be moved over to your local school and keep your place on your list. If you havent done it, do it now!! We looked at them all and loved the Peak and glenealy. What others have said about keeping in contact with the schools admissions is also right. there is no rhyme nor reason to the way it works. We got showed around Clear Water Bay school and were given a place on the spot even tho we had Glenealy as first choice and no address in HK!! Our first choice ultimately at EFS would have been the Peak - great headmaster.lovely feel and small enough to feel "homely".

Again, as far as the international schools go, you HAVE to see them for yourself. I got a place for one of my kids at the French school but disliked the school and could not get a vibe from the Head.(happy to hear others love it tho!!)
Kellet, no debentures to purchase so wouldnt even see us.
GIS - did not like but have friends who love it.

Do not know where you are settling, but have you considered the new territories? We visited Hong Lok Yeun International school and liked it but the area did not suit us.
the Japanese International school also has an international stream, based in Tai Po.

We have ended up in Lantau, and at an international school and we love it. We have best of both worlds - green and open spaces and more square foot for $ but central 20 minutes away.

If you want any more specifics, feel free to ask and good luck to all moving here, its a fab place, and you WILL get school places at some point. Remember that alot of the kindys (dont know the ages of your kids) have classes up to year 2, to cater for kids on wait list. I appreciate it means two new schools to start, but it is an option.

Good Luck!!