university fees - what are the rules re overseas fees?

[basildonbond]

still mulling over pros and cons of joining dh in Abu Dhabi ...

something which struck me recently - my cousin, who was brought up in Sweden, wanted to go to uni here, but didn't qualify as a UK student and would have been liable for overseas student fees, thus making the idea completely unaffordable. She ended up going to the Sorbonne in Paris instead, which worked out fine for her, being multi-lingual ...

does anyone know what the rules are - if ds1 did GCSEs and A-levels out there, would he still count as a UK student (he'd be away for 4 years)

argh, head going round and round in circles over this ...

I worked in this field about 5 years ago but this is probably still true. You have to have British Nationality/ right of residence and have been living in the UK at some point during the last 3 years (will need proof of address). You might get away with it if you kept a house here and lived in it during holidays and had bills and other post sent there.

this site will tell you for sure.

Thanks Plantsitter

I'm a bit puzzled ...

the dc have joint British/Australian nationality so therefore have right of residence, but if we went out to join dh we would be UAE residents and would need to rent out our house

do you have to be British AND living here for 3 years or is being British enough on its own?

My cousin had joint British/Swedish nationality but this was a while back so don't know if things have changed

the site you linked to is helpful, but I'm still puzzled - maybe I"m being dim ...

No you are not being dim the site is not very easy to navigate hence me linking and not explaining - I was too lazy to check!

But as StewieGriffinsMom says, you have to be British (or have right of residence anyway) AND have lived here for 3 years. The nationality is not enough. Lots of people get caught out by this and the price difference is huge.

You have to have both nationality and residency qualification. Sorry.

That means being ordinarily resident for the three years before the start of the course (and not just here for education which rules out boarding schools for overseas expatriate families).

Armed Forces and OGD families posted overseas who would be UK resident other than by reason of their governmental posting would have tine time on that postng counted as UK residency. And there are a handful of places with fully reciprocal arrangements to which it also does not apply (I think these are mainly UK dependent territories, but might be worth a double check).

It looks very unlikely that the circumstances you describe would qualify.

thanks everyone but ... bugger!

in some ways it makes up our mind for us ... dh's company pays school fees at the moment, but obviously not uni fees

ho hum ...

EU students are treated the same as UK students for fees (and fee loans though not for maintenance loans) so nowadays a Swede would be able to go to a English, Welsh and Northern Irish university for the same as a UK student. They would normally be able to go to as Scottish university for free.

The three year residency rule is not hard and fast. I have a friend who alternated between living in Europe and the States. They moved back here for only two years before her ds went to university in the UK. He was given EU status, I suppose because he'd lived in Europe for a lot of his life. You could maybe then just go with him for two years and come back for two years. Still it's a big risk to take.

basildon It is a kind of grey area - a sort of loophole. The decision is up to individual universties. Most British children living in the UAE, even when born there, are able to get home status, even if not at every institution, so you should be fine to go.

I know it sounds strange but there are hundreds of thousands of British folk living in the UAE and they are overwhelmingly not paying overseas fees for university age children. Many intend never to return to live in the UK

There are things that help your case. They depend, broadly (and not very convincingly) upon being able to show that your residency in the UAE is temporary, due to employer's needs and that you intend to return to the UK to live. Evidence that will support your case will be things like:
leaving your house empty to show it is still your primary residence. Have bills in your name stretching back over a few years to prove this. A standard letter from your husband's employer, if appropriate, to show that you are on a fixed term contract or posting.

If you want more accurate and up to date information, try calling a (good) school out there and asking to speak to Head of Sixth. Alternatively, post on a busy forum called "expatwoman.com" in the UAE section. There you will get up to date advice from people going through the process as we speak. You will find that few have had problems though some of the longer stayers who appear to fulfill none of the points above might have been turned down by certain universities. I expect that your husband has colleagues who have done the same thing if he asks them or his HR dept. - depends how large/helpful the company is.

You will be able to join your husband if you wish. My only caveat is that you also neeed to research schools out there carefully. Good luck.

I had a friend at Uni 5 years ago or so who paid OS fees despite being British because his parents worked in the Middle East for the 5 years before he went to Uni. OS fees are big earners for universities! Plus you wouldn't necessarily have an LEA to apply for funding through.

If you decide to go for boarding school can you have your DS's ordinary residence changed to a grandparent's or other relatives house? That's one possible loophole.

Boarding school doesn't count, I'm afraid. It is actually excluded. It is the parents' situation that counts.

Despite your friend's status, frakkin ( it is up to individual universities and is dealt with on a case by case basis at the time of application - some students will be denied home status by some universities) In practice, the vast majority of UAE students of British origin manage to obtain home status at very highly regarded universities, inc Oxbridge and all the Russell group. If this was not the case, few British expats would remain there throughout secondary schooling as the cost of overseas fees is very high.

If you are at all interested I suggest you simply call admissions at a school like Dubai College or Jumeirah College who will explain the hoops through which you will need to jump.

I know other people who've successfully lived with GPs or other relatives AND boarded and got home status. Admittedly their parents were often going to places where it wasn't practical for the children to go too, usually for educational reasons but sometimes for security, so that may have made a difference and the individual exception rule applied.

I think most unis are tightening up the rules. When I stopped working for Bham in 2008 they were halfway through a big fees review and British citizens applying from abroad were coming under scrutiny. It might be worth contacting individual unis as well as local schools before taking the decision whether to move or not. Then you'll have an idea of what the situation is likely to be in 4/5 years time.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Boarding does not exclude you from home status if your parents' situation is deemed eligible, but boarding alone will not make someone eligible. Anyway, I am sure your husband has sufficient contacts for you to find out what his colleagues' children do. Good luck.

In the current economic situation, I would expect universities to tighten up on this significantly. There is just not enough taxpayers money around. - there will be fewer student places anyhow, fiercer competition and significantly greater appetite by a cash-strapped sector to maximize income.

Absolutely infuriating about the different rules for EU students other then British ones though.

I know students who are here from UAE paying home fees because of 'temporary' residence overseas however they do need to pay them upfront, unlike other students and don't receive maintenance loans, as the loans company seems to require residency as well.

Same rule for EU residents as British residents, it does not matter your nationality when calculating fees, it matters where a student is normally resident in the 3 years preceding commencing studies. So an UAE national resident for 3 years previously in France could then go and study for free in Scotland and pay "home" fees in England and Wales, whereas a British national residing in UAE for the preceding 3 years would pay "overseas" fees.

I guess the OP has to get "temporary" residence in UAE for the time there, keeping as much ties with the UK as possible, eg keep house, pay council tax, keep on electoral roll, pay utility bills for house etc etc perhaps pay from the UK may help?

Yes, all of that supports the application. It is not clear cut in the offical advice, and in reality, only institutions like armed forces/ Foreign Office / multi-national companies and the like are sending staff for true temporary assignments but most people generally seem to be OK. There is a whole lot of form filling at application time and then a wait to see if all your choices give home status or if some do and some do not.

It is indeed a bit of a loophole and one which you might well expect the govt to tighten up on eventually - but the govt wants British companies to win valuable work overseas, so that means sending a workforce which is not going to be prepared to go if people end up paying 30 000 pounds per year, per child in overseas fees.

don't think we can risk it really :( dh is working for a UAE state-owned company on staff not fixed-term contract and we'd have to rent out our house here to help pay for the sky-high accomodation costs out there

jem is right, it is a HUGE grey area.
I am currently living in the Middle East and DC1 is now in the U6 of his UK boarding school doing A levels.
He came out to ME temporarily for 3 years. We wanted him to return a bit earlier than he did but he was mid-way through GCSEs so we had no choice but for him to finish them in ME.

He returned last September for AS levels. Whilst he was doing GCSE we found out about the 3 year rule. We asked many questions and were basically told he would need to take a gap year (and work in the UK during that year) and he could then go to Uni. Up until a few days ago, the plan was that he would apply to Uni next month but would be seeking to defer his place until September 2012. He really did want to go next year though with most of his peers so I suggested he email a few Unis and find out if this rule was always enforced.

Several emails and phonecalls later DS has been advised that for the purposes of the 3 year rule he WOULD be considered a UK resident and would NOT have to pay fees as an overseas student.
Not sure exactly what was said (but will email and ask him) but apparently they went through lots of questions. We have always kept a property in the UK and with the exception of the 3 years DS spent out here (due to my DH's work) he has lived the rest of his life in the UK.

I pay tax on an income in the UK. His dad (my ex-husband) lives and works in the UK and pays tax.

I will double check with DS who he spoke to and report back.

As a result of the last few days enquiries, DS is frantically re-writing his Personal Statement which sets out all his gap year plans as he has to submit this to his school by the end of this week!

so if we moved to middle east and dd just did 2 years with us for her A levels out there, would she be ok for uk universities as one year in the last 3, ie this one - her gcse year, would be in uk with us at a uk school. that make any sense?!

We have lived in Cape Town for the last 13 years and are returning to the UK in Jan as a family.
I have twins who are 18 in November and complete their Schooling in December 2015. They would like to go to a British Uni. My daughter to do medicine and my son to do engineering. The UK has always been home to us however we do not have a property here.
Any tips to get funding?
We have started to fill in the UCAS app. If we cannot get local funding they will not be able to go.