France: teaching asst manhandling children in first week of Petite Section. What do I do?

[thereistheball]

DD has just started Maternelle, at the local private school. She has two teachers, both of whom are new to the school this year, one for Monday / Tuesday, and one for Thursday / Friday. Throughout the whole week she has a teaching assistant who has been at the school for a long time.

On day 1 I heard the assistant shout quite harshly at a child who was crying. On day 2 I heard her do the same thing. I was concerned enough to ask mothers with older children who have been in her class about her, and was assured that she is perfectly nice.

Today I saw something about which I am deeply uncomfortable. The teaching assistant had some children (possibly from Moyenne Section) arranged in front of her on the floor. One girl was crying. The assistant absolutely yelled at her to stop crying, in a continuous stream of words rather than a one-off 'Arrete!'. She then marched over to the girl, grabbed her by one bicep, yanked her literally off her feet, dragged her for 2 metres and forcibly plonked her down in front of where she had been sitting, all the while still yelling. I don't think it's exaggerating to call the assistant's behaviour to the child violent. I was with another mother who saw the end of this and who was equally shocked. The girl in question was cowed into silence.

I cannot believe that this kind of manhandling of toddlers is acceptable - it would certainly not be in the UK. Are things that different in France? Nobody in authority came to find out what was happening despite the volume at which she was shouting. If it turns out to be within the bounds of normal teaching behaviour then I may have made a mistake about the school.

Practically speaking, I need some clarification about what the school considers to be acceptable disciplinary behaviour. I would also like some assurance that this will not happen again, though I don't believe that is realistic. I am not confident enough in my French to raise this in conversation - I will certainly offend the assistant with my lack of nuance. I want to write a letter explaining what I saw and asking for a copy of the school's discipline policy - but i am also reluctant togo on record in week 1 as a difficult parent. Unfortunately the other mother is away all next week so will not be around to back me up.

I'd be grateful for advice from anyone with children in the French school system as to whether this is normal behaviour, and the best way to proceed. Thanks in advance.

I hadn't realised how long that was. Thanks for reading this far.

What a difficult situation. I'm in Belgium and while I have seen teachers shout at children and pull them up when they are being very naughty, the manhandling of an upset child is unacceptable. In fact the teachers always pick up and cuddle crying children.

It sounds like the teacher you describe is struggling to maintain control if she has to resort to that sort of 'discipline'. I would not be happy if my child was at that school, I'm sorry.

Thanks for the quick response. I am really unhappy about this and worried that we have made a big mistake sending her there. My strong impression was that the assistant was yelling at the girl because she was crying, not because she was misbehaving. If I were on surer ground I'd storm in with all guns blazing but I don't know the culture and I don't know the language, and it's my first week as the parent of a child at school. It's reassuring that this doesn't seem acceptable to you either.

Sounds horrible. Ours are at the local state maternelle and I have never seen anything like you describe. Teachers certainly do shout at the older children, but little ones, particularly if they are upset always seem to be treated with gentleness. I speak as someone who has had my crying dc2 peeled off me (in a kind and sympathetic way) every school day since the rentree, even though this is his second year at school.

Could you give the local state school a try? I know that I would not feel confident to challenge behaviour of the sort you describe - not particularly because of language issues, although the nuance point is always difficult in dealing with the school - but because the school culture is so different here, and I would not have the slightest belief that it would have a positive effect.

We are lucky that our kids are happy at school (other than dc2 at the moment of parting), but if they weren't I would just assume that I would need to change schools rather than expecting any sort of complaint to work.

Not normal for this happen - go to the head teacher first of all.

Could I do that with a letter? I'm not confident of being able to express myself sufficiently in conversation on a topic this sensitive.

Sure - plus do you know any of the local parents in that class? Get them involved

Yes I do. Have spoken to one, am waiting for another to call back. They will help me get the phrasing correct. Should I address is straight to the head? DD's teacher on Monday was not there today so the only thing she could do is show it to the assistant or escalate it.

Really reluctant to be making waves in DD's first week but can't do nothing. Ugh.

yes I agree a letter would be good, you will feel uneasy for the whole year if you don't do anything.

Could be good if the locals complain first. If it's a small town then the head will know the parents & want to keep them happy

They won't complain, which is why I feel as if it might be accepted behaviour here.

I have had another idea, which is to return to the school at 4.30 and have a word with DD's teacher, who gives me the impression of being sympathetic, and who, being new, might not incline to defensiveness if I start making accusations of violence about her colleagues. What do you think?

I have just spoken to the other mother who saw what happened. She also said that she had seen the assistant shouting 'severely' at the children prior to today. We've agreed not to say anything just now but to observe whether things settle down next week, in case this is her attempt to impose discipline in the first week. In effect we are giving her the benefit of the doubt, which I'm not delighted about, but it is worth it for the sake of solidarity: if anything else of the sort happens again we will complain together.

She did say that if that had been her child, she would not stand for it for a second.

I feel much better knowing that someone else is with me on this.

Thanks for your advice.

Good luck

and good for you taking action & involving the other parents

If I were you I would just go to the the head and explain your concern.

I remember DS was in a centre de loisirs when he was around 5 and one day he came back and said one of the TA hit him on the head. His friend confirmed it. I went there next morning, past the said TA (giving him evil eye) and asked the head to investigate which she did right away- the guy did get annoyed with DS for not crossing the street fast enough or something similar- and gave him a little slap on the head.

He was fired on the spot.

Dragging children by their arms and screaming at them is unacceptable and I think most head teachers would agree with you.If that woman can't control herself than she has no place in school.

OP did you see this article in the Guardian recently? You would probably have some good thoughts on it.....

Thanks bluecardi and winnybella, I'm glad your situation was resolved so well.

I think I'm still going to take strength in numbers - I will have no hesitation in reporting this woman if I see or hear anything else like this from her again.

Sorry to hear that you are having problems.

Generally there are more children per adult in French nursery schools and a culture of lots of whole class teaching. As a result of these two factors staff are naturally more involved in crowed control over individual needs which can be a bit of a culture shock for me Anglo-Saxon Mums.

Having said this, this assistant does sound VERY rough even by French school standards!

Good luck - be strong! Keep us updated!

Just wanted to add another voice to the posters who said they had never seen anything like this. My two DDs are at our local private maternelle and I can't imagine any of the staff behaving like this tbh.

I think the person you need to talk to is the president of the OGEC.

The OGEC is essentially the board of goveners of the school. Teaching assisants are employed by them and NOT by the head of the school. Other than the teachers themselves all costs for private schools go through the OGEC so they are the employers.

It may just be a settling in period (I'm not excusing the behaviour by the way) and things will improve, but either way the OGEC need to know. There is normally a 2 week trial period for new employees after which it is very hard to remove them until the end of their contract.

It is not always easy to find people on the contracts we offer, so sometimes staff are taken on who are not necessarily the best person for the job.

Find out who is the president, or maybe the treasurer of the OGEC and talk to them. They can then take things further if needed.

I've never seen or heard of anything like this in our school either.

If I did, I would bring it up with the 'délégué de parents d'élèves' who is there to act as an intermediary. You could perhaps put your thoughts in writing to that person but ask them to represent you verbally towards the head teacher/governors. (The délégués haven't been voted yet this year for our school but last year's list is still up on the notice board and I think those people are still the representatives until the new elections have taken place.)

Interesting article although isn't CP 'cours préparatoire'?

I'm french and when I was a little girl, it was very common to see teacher screaming or hitting children. I'm sad it is still happening.

This doesn't sound improbable to me, thereistheball. I wouldn't like it either, but I didn't like DD's teacher in Petite Section either - she wasn't physically violent, but she was psychologically violent and DD was very frightened of her (and still talks about it), and she is not a timid child.

I wouldn't start asking about discipline policies etc. I would ask to see the head and have a chat about cultural differences in approaches to small children.

I've seen quite a few what I would call unacceptable actions from maternelle teachers in my dd's school. One day I passed a little girl (of less than 3 years old) in the corridor who was alone and sobbing. She was in 1st maternelle and they get them to sleep in the afternoon (this was the afternoon). I tapped on the door to tell the teacher and she said she knew she was out there as she'd put her there. What had she done? She'd asked (apparently noisily) to go use the potty and woke some of the others up. This was only about a month after they'd started. Poor little mite! I pretty much told the teacher what I thought about it all and went straight to the secrétariat. Yes, they said, they would have a word with her. Doubt they ever did. She's glared at me ever since. I don't give a monkey's. DD's own teacher took a boy by the back of his collar and dumped him in a corner once. He was an extremely disruptive child and would have tried anyone's patience, but still.

Good luck trying to sort it out!

Merrylegs, thank you for the link to that article - that's just how I feel about Belgian schools!