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Email/internet and remote servers in China?

16 replies

30andMerkin · 06/08/2010 11:07

Wonder if anyone living/working in China could help me?

I've been offered some work in China later this year, but I'm freelance so will need to keep tabs on my other clients whilst I'm out there.

I've heard that there can be issues with getting online in China - how easy/difficult is it to get emails, how much restriction is there on internet usage, and could I rely on up/downloading files from remote servers/ftp sites as I do normally?

Thank you!

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BaggedandTagged · 07/08/2010 11:58

From my limited experiences-

Blackberries work absolutely fine.

Remote servers can be hit and miss.

Internet access usually fine with some exceptions which are subject to change at short notice.

I have it on good authority from a friend in IT security that you should assume anything sent over the internet is being read. Not sure what field you are in but be careful about IP/ top secret commercial intelligence.

Sorry cant be more helpful but at least my reply will bump you

ninedragons · 07/08/2010 12:20

I lived in China for two years and checked my yahoo email daily. Not a single problem.

Some blog sites are blocked. I think YouTube was blocked once in the time I was there.

There are many mirror servers (? think that's what they're called) which you can use to read whatever you like that's blocked (eg Taiwanese newspapers, stuff about the Falun Gong (though why anyone would want to read anything produced by that bunch of flakes is beyond me)). DH has an office in China and they routinely use them.

WRT your situation, if by "other clients" you are in PR or something and are dealing with Cath Kidson or something equeally innocuous, that will be fine. If you are an arms dealer and by "other clients" you mean the Israeli or North Korean government, yes, that would be read - same as it would be in Britain....

30andMerkin · 07/08/2010 12:38

Thank you ladies, very helpful start.

No, my other clients are definitely more along the Cath Kitson line than the earth-to-missile-destroyer line!

I need to access and transfer large-ish, but innocuous, design files/pdfs etc from ftps; various email accounts via servers including Gmail and Mistral. I couldn't give a toss who's watching what I'm doing, but I can't afford to be out of touch for weeks at a time!

(Although I would like to be able to MN... you can get on MN out there... right?! Wink)

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ninedragons · 07/08/2010 12:52

All that sounds like it would be fine. The whole Great Firewall of China thing is very much overstated in the Western media, in my experience.

And yes, I can tell you from experience, you can definitely get MN.

jodevizes · 08/08/2010 17:51

Not sure what connection rates and stuff are but in the weirder countries that tend to censor things people use VPNs which are, I think, are Virtual Private Networks. I saw this on Click on the BBC. It is a way of connecting to servers in another country so that it appears that you are in that country. It means you could also use the BBC iPlayer from China.

4pinkbabies · 08/08/2010 19:54

I am emigrating to China this Thursday, so will soon be able to report back!!

longwave · 09/08/2010 04:46

I used to work for an organisation that campaigns for free press, etc. so I know a bit about how it works.

ninedragons says from her experience The Great Firewall is overplayed in western media, but I strongly disagree. Rather, foreigners often do not experience the full effect of it. That is because we often benefit from exceptions to the rules.

For example, hotels full of foreigners have VPNs (Virtual Private Networks) that act as funnels outside of the wall. Places that are known for being mostly foreign will also have these 'free passes'. Often foreigners are using company VPNs from back home - so again, circumvent the wall and are completely unaffected by the censorship. They'll come home and say "No problems at all," which is their experience, but not necessarily the reality for the vast majority in China. Furthermore, if you navigate the web in English you have a different experience than if you do so in Simplified Chinese. Words banned in Chinese are not necessarily 'caught' in English. Content within paid subscriptions is also often excempt. So, if you are a subscriber to The South China Morning Post, you can access articles online that have been redacted from the print version circulated on the mainland. The idea is that the censorship is to control protect the 'masses' not 'the elite', thus being foreign, affluent (by local terms) and English-speaking gets you past most of it. The short answer is that you probably won't have to worry so much about it (but may need access to a VPN).

Even for the 'masses' it is fairly straightforward to find ways to 'break through'; so the firewall is much more of a cat and mouse game than anything else. For many, finding ways around it is about having a less intrusive online experience, but for some people - human rights or democracy activists, or anyone purposely or inadvertently shaming the government, it means high risks. Blogs can be shut down overnight, people can be interrogated for posting embarrassing photos or comments - and much worse: Huang Qi, for example

Imagining that you are not over there as an revolutionary you have little to worry about. However, the one comment above that I would most definitely heed to is about spying. If you recall the massive cyber attacks end of last year - most of the targets were commercial: Google, Adobe, etc. I would say you are more at risk of commercial Internet Security breeches in China than elsewhere as there is already a sophisticated infrastructure in place to do so, and it often happens with the tacit approval of the government, which has an appalling record of respecting international Intellectual Property rights, and which, in a sense, benefits from this behaviour. If you have anything you think could be worth stealing - be careful with it!

ninedragons · 09/08/2010 10:03

Do you think if I was there for two years, I stayed in a hotel for the whole time? I lived in a flat (not a compound, a perfectly ordinary flat rented from a Chinese landlord) and had a standard China Telecom internet package.

And do you honestly think that the OP, from the scope of her question, will be navigating the web in simplified Chinese?

FFS, she is BRITISH, dealing with her BRITISH clients, so your patronising little screed is irrelevant.

I also think you give the locals little credit for being able to get round such controls that there are - as I said above, my husband's employees use mirror servers routinely to read Taiwanese press.

30andMerkin · 09/08/2010 10:08

Okay, didn't mean to start a fight here.

Without getting into the wrongs and wrongs of censorship, essentially I work for myself, so have no company VPN to access.

I will be working for an organisation and have just received their 'living and working in China' guide which says 'Do not expect to keep up with your friends on Facebook and YouTube".

Hmm...

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EnglandAllenPoe · 09/08/2010 10:14

well the other issue is that if you are using facilities for locals, depending on where you are, you may face power cuts as well.

my brother also had his phone conversations listened to (they asked him for a translation of one of them!)..by his employer. There is no 'secure' or 'private' service. There are ways round things though as other posters have said.

longwave · 09/08/2010 12:32

Wow.

ninedragons I had no intention of offending you. I was writing based on experience working at a well known, respected organisation that happens to also campaign on this issue. My post was not in away about you.

I thought it would be helpful to provide the OP with some information about the general situation there. I thought it could be interesting to her since she was asking. I didn't think I was writing a patronising screed. I'm sorry you saw it that way.

Anyway, I clearly stated that locals do find ways to get around the firewall, very easily, when I described it as "more of a cat and mouse game". Of course they do, which is why the whole thing is a bit ridiculous.

Actually, I'm not sure you really read my post. I also never said she would navigate the web in Chinese. But why shouldn't she know that there is a difference between doing so in Chinese or English? I'm not sure why that got your shackles up - but I have never been sworn at before over something so abstract.

Obviously, when people are talking about whether or not they can access BBC or YouTube or Twitter for innocuous reasons the stakes are lower than they were for some people we campaigned on behalf of. Maybe I should have emphasized more that experience of the firewall, or censorship/repression in China, depends a lot on your intent. I thought I made that point to the OP by saying that so long as she is not going there to be a revolutionary, she'll be just fine. You say that you never experienced the firewall, which I don't doubt to be true, but that could also be because you weren't trying to access things that were banned.

Certainly our website was 100% blocked in China - no matter what your circumstances or location. When they lifted the ban for a short period around the Olympics it made international news. So yes, in some cases it does blatantly exist.

PosieParker · 09/08/2010 12:44

When I was staying in china, at my parents who have lived there for 8 years, I could get on the internet. The BBC, youtube and so on are blocked as is iTunes to some degree. TV is pretty hardcore censored too, whilst watching world news something about Taiwan came on and transmission was suspended. Expats do get over firewalls and TV but they are cases where Expats have been raided in the middle of the night and satelite dishes removed.

You do have to watch what you say and write in China. Whilst MNing in China the MN website was blocked.

longwave · 09/08/2010 14:05

(PS 30andMerkin you can try something like this: strongvpn.com/. geek friends give it the nod. Or Google other trusted options. Then you don't have to worry at all about access.... And best of luck on your work there!)

30andMerkin · 09/08/2010 15:19

Thanks for that. Although I do wonder if VPN servers are so good at circumnavigating restrictions/providing anonymity, I don't understand why people using the internet for no good (illegal downloading/copying music/films, fraud, child pornography etc) don't use them? And if they DO use them, then surely VPNs should be monitored even more closely than general internet use!

Probably not relevant... just got me thinking!

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EnglandAllenPoe · 09/08/2010 17:51

if you were a paedo in China, you are unlikely to need the internet much when a boy can be had for a paltry amount of juan on any backstreet of any major city.

30andMerkin · 09/08/2010 18:23

Er.. right! I wasn't thinking China-specific, just all the promotional stuff for the VPNs seems to be based around 'anonymous internet browsing'... which sounds like code for 'get up to no good with impunity' to my cynical mind!

Still, if it lets me proof editorial and ads for my clients' widgets then that'll do for me!

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