known donor Vs unknown donor - head is spinning!

[tricky77]

hi all,
today is my first day on this site, and already I found some really useful and interesting posts....so it has prompted me to start my own thread to try and search for some wise words, help and guidance in our attempts to enter the world of gay parenting!
my girlfriend and i have been together for 7yrs, and have been talking about starting a family for a couple of years now. We're getting "civil-d" this year, which is all very exciting in itself, but it has also prompted us to really try and come to some kind of decision as to how we want to go about getting pregnant....because we keep going back and forth on the same debate of the pros and cons of "known donor Vs unknown donor" - and keep coming out of these debates none the wiser!
So, i wanted to start a thread here in the hope of getting in contact with other gay mums who may have had the exact same debates, and to hear your stories and experiences as to how things have worked out for you?
our gut feeling has always been that we would like to go with a known donor, because we feel it would be important for the child to know who their father was, and to be able to form a relationship with them...but for the child to always see myself and my partner has their parents....so, in an ideal world, our kd would be the kind of uncle figure that has been talked about. BUT, then are worry is if the kd then wants more involvement along the way, and wants to play a bigger a part in the childs life, and the decision making....and would their input make matters more complicated in the long run, as it would be 3 parents trying to decide whats best for their child instead of 2......and would sometimes the kd and one of us agree with each other, and therefore casue a divide in our relationship....aaagh - hence the head spin!
then, on the flip side, using an unknown donor would mean none of those complications would happen, as there would be no confusion as to who the parents would be....but then how would this affect the child when they grow older and want to know where they came from, and who their father is....and would they miss having a key male figure to spend time with etc.......
im sorry that my first thread on here is a complete rambling mess - its hard to stop once I started!

our situation recently has taken an interesting turn, because we have been introduced to a friend of a friend who is interested in being a father....he is gay, and his partner already has a 15yr old daughter who he spends time with too....he seems lovely, and we all agreed to spend more time together getting to know each other and see what happens - but i guess that now that someone has come into our lives who is a potential KD, all these questions are buzzing through our minds. this guy seems very keen to be an involved father, which is great in one respect, but it does the raise the question of HOW involved?
so, i guess my first question, for those of you who have used a kd, is where do you start in terms of creating some kind of legal agreement at the beginning as to who makes the final decisions, rights of access etc.....
i could go on and list a whole load of other questions......but im pretty sure this first post is quite long enough!
sorry again for the ramblers, but any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

Have no practical advice to give but just wanted to say "welcome" and good luck!

On a personal level I think I would go with unknown for the reasons you have highlighted about the donor maybe getting too involved later on.

You will be your child's parents and having to explain about "uncle X" might be confusing. I don't know.

There is a girl in my DD's class who is 15 and it has recently transpired that her mum did exactly what you thinking about. The lady they live with is not "auntie X" but in fact her mum's lover. They visited a sperm bank. They have all been keeping it quiet for so many years and recently it has all been revealed.

I feel so sad that they haven't been able to be honest for fear of what people will say.

Anyway, whatever you decide good luck!!

I am sure some wiser MNetters will be along soon to give you some proper advice rather than my drivel!

thanks for the welcome message, and for your thoughts as well - all still very helpful!
i think that the one thing we are sure of is that whatever we decide, we will make sure we are open and honest with everyone involved right from the start...so we've one made one decision at least! ;)

i hope that you dd's friend is ok though.

well I've posted about our set-up here before - welcome btw.

DP and I have a 14 month old daughter, conceived using a KD. Unlike a lot of people, though, we didn't know him before this process - we found him through rainbow families, and after much talking etc etc we have an arrangement whereby he sees DD every couple of months for a couple of days (we're in Ireland, he's in England). As she gets older, we envisage that this will change. We are the parents, take all parental decisions, provide for her, do all the day to day care. We would, as a courtesy, and because we like him and respect him, inform him of major decisions and ask his views, where appropriate. His name is not on her birth cert, but we are already absolutely honest about what his relationship is to her - he is her father and she knows him as 'daddy'. Not being honest is a recipe for disaster IMHO. Not knowing him was actually helpful in one way in that everything had to be discussed, and nothing could be assumed.

It's not easy and it does involve a whole lot of negotiations and discussions that the anonymous route doesn't involve. If you are in the UK and civilly partnered the non-bio mother can have parental responsibility for the child - unlike here
I don't regret it at all, and think that she will have a really good relationship with him - but do bear in mind that you will have to be able to resolve difficulties, that a KD will be part of your life for 18+ years, and that you won't always agree on things. It has worked out well for us so far, with one (to me, very important exception), which is that KD now has a new partner who is not keen for him to donate again - so a person that I've met only 3 or 4 times (and like, that's not the issue) seemingly gets to decide the composition of our family - this really isn't something we thought about beforehand, and it is proving hard to resolve. If we had gone the anonymous route, we'd probably be expecting no. 2 by now, or at least in the process of. On the other hand, we have a beautiful little girl for whom we are immensely grateful; he has given us, and her, an unimaginably generous gift.

Do you mind me asking how old you are? It's just that if you are young, and therefore probably have time on your side, don't necessarily go for the first KD that presents himself - we met and talked to about 6 guys (some friends, some not) before we found someone that we felt was right and that we could get along with.

Phew, that was long - you will hear horror stories about KDs, and you may well have some bad experiences yourselves - but remember that they are doing you a massive favour, and many KDs I've met have in turn been taken for granted or treated badly by potential recipients.

Good luck, whatever you decide- look through the old threads here - you'll find plenty of discussion of this issue

Hiya!.....My partner and I have a 3 yr old son and a 9 month old daughter. Our donor is known, but in no way involved. He has met our son but not our daughter as yet. Our arrangement is a simple one, in that we send email updates of kids. Thats all he ever asked. We do sometimes meet up for coffee, he has no connection tho and we can see that which is a bonus. We are having our CP in 2 weeks, then my partner is adopting the kids formally.

Donor is willing to be about to explain his reasons for donating as the kids grow up, and we are honest even now, with our son, so no hidden surprises as he grows up as we cannot imagine anything worse for them.

He is not known as their dad, as he is not a father, he is a biological link, and I think being able to speak with him as they grow will be good as of course they will have natural urges to ask why.

SO we opted for somehwere in the middle, we are parents he is a donor that we have coffee with sometimes. No confusion, ties or messy commitments to mess around with.

I have no experience of this at all, but just wanted to ask as I'm nosy curious, which one of you will carry the baby? And how do you decide? or is one of you more keen to be the biological mother than the other?

There was a lesbian couple who had triplets on 'one born every minute' this week. They said there was no question over which one of them which one would give birth to the babies.

thanks so much for your posts......drivingmisscrazy - and im sorry to hear about your kd's new partner who seems to be against him donating again - like you say, that is a possibility that hadnt even entered my mind, but certainly is something to consider.
As for our ages, im turning 33 in April....and my girlf is 30. so, in terms of who will carry the baby, we've both always imagined ourselves carrying a child, and its soemthing that we both very much want to experience - but, because i am that little bit older....and everyone always seems to keep banging on about 35 being the "crunch time"....we decided that i would "go first", and then if we can use the same donor again, she will try for a child a couple of years later.....that is the theory anyway, but who knows?!
in terms of speaking with a few possible KD's before we make a decision - there was/is another friend of a friend who we have been spending time with as well - he is currently in the process of helping out another gay couple have a baby, so is a bit "fully booked!" at the mo....interestingly for that situation, it is actually his sisters girlfriend that he is helping to conceive......so, he will be the father, but will also be the uncle in a roundabout kind of way!.....and for the mums, they seem to get the best of everything, as there will actually be a genetic mix of the two of them in the child.
anyway, he has said he would be interested in helping out another a couple - hes a lovely guy and we get on very well - and he is definitely someone who would want a more backseat kind of role in the childs life....BUT, the first person i mentioned does initially seem like a person more on our wave-length really....but who knows!
anyway, ive rambled again, so ill stop for now.

thanks again though for the responses.....we dont actually have very many gay friends at all, so its been hard for us to find people to talk to about all of this with people who honestly understand it all, so this site will be really helpful i think. so thanks.

Hi - hope you don't get MN addiction now you've discovered us!

From reading many many posts on the adoption threads about the pain of children who are unable to learn about their biological antecedents, I'd say known over unknown every time.

Unknown is not necessarily less complicated than known - and is complicated all that bad?

Welcome tricky77, I just wanted to say hi as your situation is one that I think my sister will eventually be in.

She and her girlfriend have been together for 2 years now and have recently been discussing having children.

My sister is a brilliant aunt to my children and truly believes she will be a mother herself someday.

I want to do everything I can to support them but it isn't a subject I have a lot of knowledge on.

Your post have given me some insight into the situation.

I really hope you and your dp achieve your hopes of becoming parents.

I think the point about unknown not necessarily being less complicated is right - certainly for the child. Less complicated for the parents, certainly, at least when they are tiny - I suppose that we only get to exercise so much choice over our families - and nothing is guaranteed.

Welcome to Mumsnet tricky77 My wife and I have a 13 month DS who was conceived via an unknown donor - and we are in the process of trying for a sibling for him (with the same donor).

At the end of the day, go with what feels right for you and your family. We chose a unknown donor as we felt it had less long and short term complications for both us and our future kids.. but, at the end of the day only time will prove us right. Our DS may hate the fact he doesn't know who his donor was, or he may not care and be happy with the loving family he has around him.

It might be worth writing a list of pro's and con's for known / unknown and score them against what's important to you. You might be surprised by the outcome.

My adoption of our DS is being finalised on the 9th April - so he will legally have two Mums! .

For us, having a child has made us stronger as a unit - I wouldn't change it for anything ! Wishing you all the best in making your decision and making your family !

These are lovely stories. I am secretly fascinated by lesbian mums, why, I have no idea

There are two lesbian couples with DC at my kids school, I can often be found staring surreptitiously at them....hopefully my mouth isn't agape.

Good luck to you all.

suwoo that's because we are all really glamorous, interesting and brilliant . Seriously, it's kind of exciting, coming to grips with a new(ish) model of parenthood

Welcome, wow what a tricky OP! I hope you find your answer.

true lenin true; I think it's quite odd for the generation of lesbians older than us who are now surrounded by sprogging dykes - some of them think that really wasn't the point of the battles they thought, and some of them are devastated that having children was not an option for most of them - although some of them had children from marriages that they wouldn't have entered now. Gone totally off message...

jesus, fought not thought (though they did that too )

Lenin is my secret lezza crush, although I have never even seen a picture of her. Driving, I notice you have no profile either...

Please ignore me, I've been drinking

you have no profile either I've often felt like that about myself - drinking is good, wouldn't mind a bit more of that myself. Am old, haggard and past it.

Note to self. Don't drink wine and mumsnet.

am lovin the fact that mumsnet is actually full of lezza lushes.....note that i am typing this with a glass of vino by my laptop!
my girlf and i are meeting up with the potential KD again tonight for some drinks....clearly, i felt the need for a cheeky "bravery" glass before i head to town tho!
Leningrad.....i dont suppose there is anyway at all you could somehow summarise all that you guys covered in your contract that you never signed??
thats probably a massive ask though, i know - but, thought it was worth a try!
it would jsut be great to have some kind of guidance on where the hell to start with all the questions really from someone who has been through it.but totally understand if that is just a ridiculous ask!
right - id better go and get ready i guess!