Bio mum wanting opinions

[Peonyflowergirl]

My wife and I recently had a baby. We used my egg, and I carried so my wife is the non bio mum. My wife has said she doesn’t like when people ask about or compare our daughter to the donor, which I can understand and when someone has asked about it, I’ve redirected them and told them we don’t want to discuss or compare her to the donor.

However, recently I made a comment about our daughter having my eyes and my wife said I was putting too much emphasis on biology and that it made her feel left out. Am I being unfair and in thinking I should be able to say things like that? Or is she being unreasonable?

I think she’s being ridiculous and very unfair. Your daughter will have inherited things from you and her father and it’s common for you and others to comment on those things. Why should you not be able to say she’s got your eyes? It’s lovely to see ourselves in our children. Your wife can’t ignore biology, expect others to ignore biology or erase your daughter’s father because she ‘feels left out’. I’d get this sorted now before your daughter is older when she will probably be interested in her father, what he looks like, etc. Your wife needs to be able to deal with it in a mature way as she could cause damage to your daughter.

We have two babies, one conceived using each of our eggs, and my partner carried both. In our experience, pretty much no-one ever mentions or asks about the donor. But with the first (my egg, donor sperm, partner carrying) we were aware that we might have some sensitivities about family resemblances, so we were all careful not to speculate about what the baby might look like. In the end, he popped out looking exactly like me, and it turned out DP didn't mind at all. But she'd given birth to him and I think it might have felt different if she hadn't been biologically involved at all. Anyway, I don't think you are being unreasonable, precisely, but I do think if I were you (which I sort of was, a few years ago) I would probably try and be as tactful as possible. You both need to focus on building strong and equal relationships with the baby, and then resemblances will matter less, probably not at all.

Your daughter will have inherited things from her father. It’s not dismissive of your wife’s role for your daughter to have her parentage and genetic inheritance acknowledged and celebrated. In fact, I’d say it’s pretty crucial to her emotional wellbeing and self worth for it to be acknowledged and talked about. Why should people ignore aspects of your daughters make up because your wife is struggling with her own feelings of disconnect? That prioritises her needs over that of the child and is something she should maybe explore with an experienced therapist.

I would say it's going to be important to your child's sense of identity to understand her biological roots at some point. I have a child who isn't biologically mine (adopted) and we do try not to go on and on about who looks like who because my other children aren't adopted and we don't want him to feel left out, but that's about his needs not ours. Your partner needs to be aware that your child will have questions and her own views on things at some point and nothing should be taboo. At the same time you can make sure you always tell her that being a non biological parent you bond with your child in just the same way as a biological parent and the love you feel is no different.

I think this is a very difficult one. It is of course completely natural to say things like, "ooh, she has my eyes" or "wow, she looks surprisingly like her cousin". But of course it can be tricky in a situation like this. We have friends whose DD was conceived and carried by a surrogate. Their sperm was mixed or randomly chosen but their child looks exactly like one of them so it's very obvious who the biological dad is but as a rule, it's not commented on. Although I suspect that will change as she gets older.

I gave birth to three girls - all from my partners eggs and donor sperm (Side note to some of the pp - it’s a donor, not a “father”).
So I guess I’m in a similar situation to your partner but not the same completely as I carried them. But I can understand and empathise with her discomfort around who the child looks like. I do sometimes feel some sadness when I hear people comment on how much the girls look like my partner. It’s not to take anything away from my partner - I’m please for her that they look like her especially as I birthed them. And of course they are going to look like her more than me!
If you can have a conversation with your partner about it, I think it would help. Try to be honest with each other without judgement.
Things that help me (but I’m aware might not help her, we are all different!) is seeing the mannerisms and personality traits they clearly got from me! Yes they may not be genetically mine but I am a big part of their development and they are like me in other ways!
Good luck to you both x

I’m interested in a lot of posters using the word father rather than donor and if they have children from donor sperm? Op is your donor known to you and part of the child’s life? If so then of course father is appropriate but if he’s from a sperm bank IMO he’s not your child’s “father” he’s your child’s donor. Your child has only 2 parents - two mums. I think it takes a lot more than donating sperm to be a father. I understand your partner’s feeling of being left out but it is her shit that she has to deal with, she chose to do it this way after all. It’s not something she should put on you. Perhaps something she could talk through with a therapist instead? And lots of one on one time with just her and your child might help strengthen their bond (if she feels that’s a problem)

You can think what you like but you can’t control the language people use. Mother or father can not and should not be erased because it suits others to pretend a child only has 2 mums or 2 dads or whatever the situation is. The child may well think of their ‘donor’ as their father.

A donor is not a father.

I have 2 children via a donor. The children will never know him or call him father. I have a wife and they have 2 mums. Its not pretend it's our family dynamic. I had the DC on my own before I met my wife. If I had married a man he would be their stepfather. I married a woman so she is stepmother.

She is BU. My wife is the bio mum to both our kids and I love seeing her and her family’s characteristics in them, because I love her and I love her family. And the stuff we can’t account for we assume is from the donor, and that’s wonderful too.

You have no idea what your children will refer to him as in years to come. The donor conceived person I know calls her donor, her father, and has done since she was about 15, despite her mother protesting. You don’t get to police mumsnet as to how others refer to your children’s father either.

This. How intrinsically self centred and dismissive of your child to make it all about you and the reality you wanted to create!
Will you honestly tell your child if they ask about their biological history 'don't care, that excludes me, I want to make it so that that part of your existence doesn't matter'.

My wife carried both of our children, the first is her egg the second is mine. I was therefore in your partner’s position for a couple of years, before our son was born. Now we are both in that position. I think your partner is being super unreasonable, and quite selfish.

Children want to know who they look like and have that acknowledged. We look at family photos together and can see our oldest looks like her biological mum, grandma and great grandma. It’s a nice thing to do and important for kids. Your wife wanting to deny reality is not more important than that, and honestly she should have dealt with these feelings of insecurity before you had children.

She should get some therapy now if the fact your child looks like you destabilises her enough to make this an issue.

The one thing I think all parents having children using one or more donors need to do is ALWAYS put the best interest of their children first. Certainly above their own insecurities. Pretending they don’t have a biological parent and a none biological parent is not doing that.

Same as denying the existence of their donor. I think whether the donor gets called donor, father, dad or something else as the kids get older is up to the kids. It’s their reality, heritage and identity.

This. Your child will likely be interested in their heritage when they get older and dismissing this is likely to mess them up. Also suggest your wife gets some therapy to help her.

Congratulations on your baby. I hope you don't mind me posting since I'm a straight biological mum with a straight bio dad, albeit an ex now.
It's hard to avoid comparison of baby to bio parent. In my case, my kiddo's Dad got upset that our child looks much more like me than him. I used to joke that I wished our child had his olive skin & thick curly hair but instead copped my pale skin & fine straight hair. I was trying to appease him but it didn't work.

I say this because in the end it shouldn't really matter. Of course you'll notice things about your bub and those things will change as they grow. Some kids who grow up with both bio parents look nothing like either of them. I have a neice like this, she must be some kind of genetic throwback from hundreds of years ago!

Hopefully your wife will start to become fond of whatever features in bub that remind her of you?

Don't be a keyboard warrior. 'Your children's father' yikes. This is completely inappropriate labelling and downright rude.

@TimeToBake Most of us in this thread have a ton of experience with our own donor conceived children and, I imagine lots of same sex friends with kids. You’re clearly not part of this world and don’t know what you’re talking about so your opinions are not informed by anything and you really don’t have a right to comment IMO. Why would you even come on this thread if you know nothing and don’t want to know anything about donor conceived children? Just to be homophobic? It’s really not your place to comment at all.

If you tell a child from birth the man who helped make them is dad then they’ll call him dad, if you say he’s Steve then they’ll call him Steve, if you say he’s their donor, they’ll call him “my donor”. It’s not about pretending (how long would you even pull that off for?! Maybe 8 years until the kid learns how you make a baby, then feels really lied to and let down?!) none of us are doing that, we’re simply telling them the truth, they have two mums - parents are the people that bring a child up. However, it takes a man and a woman to make a baby so we needed help from a man - your donor to make you. Yes he’s half the child’s DNA and I bring him up in conversation often. If she’s curious when she’s older I will tell her anything she wants to know and if she wants to meet him when she’s an adult she can. I very much doubt she’ll suddenly, halfway through her childhood, start calling this man dad! But if she does then fine, that’s her choice, it’s her life after all, all we can do as parents is give her all the information we have and the tools to get through life

Also I can and do control the language that people use around it - anyone that has any respect for me and my child (so anyone’s opinion we value) I have clearly told what we would like our child’s donor to be referred to - as her donor. Some older generations of the family weren’t sure of the language- and that is fine, they don’t have any experience of conceiving via sperm donation but they had the respect and intelligence to ask us how they should refer to him, no one just assumed he’d be “dad”

I think it's something you might benefit from specialist couples counselling to explore, because it's such a delicate situation.

I've seen good friends struggle when one of them miscarried their baby and, when it was judged unlikely she could carry another pregnancy to term, had to watch her wife, whom she adores, be pregnant with and give birth to their daughter. They're a strong, loving couple (and different to your situation in that the pregnancy came about via embroyo 'adoption', so their daughter has no genetic link to either mother) but it was difficult for the non-bio mother to find her role initially, especially as she had been the one who was desperate to have had the experience of pregnancy and birth, while her wife was less bothered.

I’m a donor conceived adult. The sperm donor is my biological father, and I refer to him as my biological father. My Dad - the man who raised me who was infertile - is my Dad. I will never refer to my biological father as my donor, because that’s way too transactional and abstract a term to describe the person who has made up 50% of my genetics, who is the reason I have coeliac disease, who is the reason I’m a scientist and the rest of my family are artsy, who is the reason my second son looks entirely different to his brother, dad and me.

Also he didn’t donate to me, he donated to my parents. He’s their donor, he’s my father.

The needs of the child and the adult they will become need to be centred here, and OP - your wife needs to get over herself. I appreciate it might be hard for her, but she needs to be prepared for her child to feel very differently about biology and heritage to the way she does. Or rather, it’s clear she does think that biology matters, otherwise it wouldn’t bother her, but she has to process those feelings herself and not police her family.

We have two children in the family, for completely different reasons, why one parent isn't genetically related to one of the children.

Your comment is not unreasonable but I can understand why the other parent doesn't want to start going down that road. Our situations work because we accept the facts and talk about them when the children raise it. Raising it without the child's involvement is only done after careful thought because it's necessary.

In your situation it's not that there's anything wrong with your comment. It's more that going on like that will lead to a situation where there are lots of comments like that and an absence of similar comments regarding the other parent. They could draw conclusions or younger siblings could, especially if it's weighted the other way for them.

I would stick to the DNA doesn't make a family love does line and probably exercise some diplomacy. You could well find that in a few years the child is having open conversations about why they have your eyes and not your partners and it would be better for them to work through those conversations when they want to with the information you've knowingly given them rather than having overheard snippets already.

This is your experience and it all sounds good. Do you see your father, have you met him?

MY donor will never have a role in my children's lives. That was agreed before he donated. He is anon. He will never be their father, only a biological donor.

This is the language that works for us. Everyone is different. Biologically he may be but I don't plan to ever use the word. What my children decide to refer to him as is their choice. I wouldnt correct them, only give the simple facts. At the moment they are young children.

A friend of mine said when my 10yo was a baby 'does she look like her dad'? I was so shocked as I have never used that word! I put her straight immediately and that was it. I don't even talk about the donor yet (10yo barely verbal due to autism, 8 year old also autistic and not very curious), on the couple of times the younger one asked I found it enough to say 'you don't have a dad, you have a mum, grandad etc' she is OK with that for now. Later I will explain.

I have 2 very happy girls with a loving family and 2 mums. Its very normal to us and when I hear odious opinions it makes me realise how ignorant people can be.

So I think these are two very different issues that need to be pulled apart (though for your wife I understand why they may feel the same).

In terms of reference the the donor, I think it both isn’t healthy for it to be a banned topic between the two of you, especially as your daughter gets older; because actually it’s predominantly about her not either of her mums, but it’s also perfectly reasonable that it’s private (but not shameful) information for you guys as a family, and if you don’t want to have conversations about it with random other people that’s totally up to you. Of course as your daughter gets older and can understand the conversation around her you’ll also need to factor in that a) she may have feelings about being discussed like this in front of others and b) however you shut it down needs to not make her feel it’s a banned topic/big deal/she can’t ask for questions.

Separately, the fact you’re biological related to your daughter and your wife isn’t; in the kindest possible way she needs to get over that and get over it quickly. It’s just a fact and suggesting you shouldn’t be able to talk about your daughter resembling you/your family is unfair to you and really unhealthy. It suggests she has deeper insecurities about this, and needs to deal with them for her sake, your sake and your daughter’s sake. Making it a topic that cannot be referenced in any way isn’t going to make it go away

For what it’s worth, I say this as someone with a donor conceived child who has two mums

What happens if your DC wants to meet ‘the donor’ aka their father when they’re an adult? Surely you wouldn’t try to stop them? Tbh I find it quite baffling that you can disregard half of your DC’s DNA and history so flippantly to suit your own agenda.