Non-birth mum and being treated as second best.

[SarahAndQuack]

I know this section is often a bit quiet, but I could really, really do with some help from anyone who gets this. I have lots of lovely straight friends, but I'm really lacking in other lesbian mums to talk to. Those we know who have children are mostly in a different situation (either they adopted together, or they have children from previous relationships).

I'm a non-birth mum to my DD who is 2. My DP is her biological mum. We've had huge problems with DP's family, especially her mum, who is (frankly) awful and constantly undermines both of us, but especially me. Lots of calling me 'auntie' and pretending it was a slip of the tongue and lots of nasty comments otherwise.

My real difficulty is related to this (in that I see where it comes from as a family dynamic in my DP's family), but my DP is actually pretty unsupportive. I feel really sad writing this. She was excited to get pregnant but found pregnancy unexpectedly hard, and she had a horrible labour and PND. I did and do feel very sympathetic, but I also feel as if one result has been that she treats me as less of a mum than her. She'll never stick up for me to her family, and she routinely does little things that undermine me, like going against a decision we made about our DD, or simply ignoring my perspective. She will always be the one to hold DD, pick her up, etc., and that becomes self-reinforcing, in that now, if I am with DP and try to pick up my DD, she'll reach out for my DP instead. When we're alone together, DD is just fine and very affectionate (I'm the SAHP).

I'm finding it increasingly hurtful and hard to cope with.

noone - I doubt she thinks I wouldn't cope with DD for an extended period on my own. She's seen me do it, multiple times. It's rarer for her to do it.

No, random, don't be sorry! My fault for assuming. It's getting me down, is all.

I should be clear: I think it's totally natural for DD to have a preference. And indeed (because she's a toddler) to do things like playing us off against each other or getting furious with me for indignities like trying to dress her, or whatever.

What I don't think is so normal is for DP to do nothing to smooth those things out, and quite often to do things that exacerbate it.

When DD was very tiny, I remember she wouldn't settle on DP if she was upset - which I understand is common, because she was smelling the milk, so she'd think she was hungry but would be too upset to want a feed, and it'd work her up. I knew I could always settle her faster, and often DP would have to hand her to me because of that. And I remember feeling really guilty that this must make DP feel bad, and doing a lot of trying to make it up to her.

I just don't feel as if she does that in return, and I find that really odd.

I reckon she is most likely playing out a childhood dynamic...

It certainly gives her a lot of power when she probably feels very powerless?

I’m the non-birth parent, my DW gave birth earlier this year. Did you and your DP discuss her family before the birth? I know for us it was a real concern, and we had some lines in the sand already in mind for what we would and wouldn’t accept, and what we would do if it did happen. Luckily the relationships vastly improved in the two years of fertility treatment and it hasn’t turned out to be an issue, but I know when I was worried about it the fact that we had a plan of action was comforting. Would it be helpful to discuss it now? So that if the auntie comment happens again you’re both on the same page about what the response would be?

It’s shitty though, I’m really sorry. Navigating the world generally (I’ve already scored out father and substituted partner more times than I can count) is frustrating enough, never mind your DP not fighting your corner.

Yes, probably random. But I can't make her feel powerful, and I feel pretty powerless by now.

merrow - congratulations on your little one! And thanks very much for posting. We did talk about family before the birth, but - for reasons that were sound but now seem a bit unfortunate - we mostly focussed on my family. My parents were not very happy I was in a lesbian relationship and we had concerns, whereas DP's had always seemed supportive. Strangely, my parents and especially my mum mellowed hugely and have been really unexpectedly wonderful, while DP's mum seemed to find it very hard and it became very fraught. So the conversations we had just haven't got us far, because we failed to anticipate this sort of thing.

I have talked about it a lot since, and DP will always agree in principle that MIL says hurtful things, but nothing much changes in terms of her actually responding to them.

(Actually, that's not quite fair: once recently she did speak up for me to her mum, and I did really appreciate it. But not about the mum/auntie thing.)

I remember your previous thread. I'm sorry that you're still getting such shitty behaviour from your MIL.

I think you need to have a very clear and frank conversation with your DP, and make it clear that it can't continue like this. But it seems to me that she/you both may need help to make changes. Have you ever had any joint counselling?

She won't, assassinated. I have tried and tried and tried. The latest excuse is that it is too expensive, and it's true we are fairly skint.

I really think I am clear and frank. I almost feel as if I need models for what other people would say - as if there might be some way I'd get it across to her. I think that is wishful thinking, but I keep hoping.

I didn't mean to imply you aren't being clear and frank. Realistically, you cannot force another person to change if they don't really want to.

What are your feelings on this, long term? Can you put up with it, or will it be the death of your relationship?

It sounds like you have an unsupportive co parent combined with the most frequent of Mumsnet problems a MIL issue.
All you can do is set your own boundaries and live by them.

Ive not got much help. But your MIL sounds like a dick.
You are a mum!!

Do you see much of your own family? Are they supportive xxxx

You sound lovely and I can feel your sadness just from reading your opening post. Your DPs family sound awful, can you reduce contact?
I agree with a PP that it sounds like a typical mother / father set up. I had a baby 9 months ago and initially I was the primary caregiver as I had the “primal” urge to be my DDs main caregiver and did the majority of feeds etc. Now DD is older this has evened out with my DP and she looks to both of us for comfort.

I am going to put forward a different approach. I think the biggest issue is your relationship.

I think people have the some of the biggest relationship issues when they feel disconnected from the other person.

Often couples can constantly talk and argue about a particular situation and instead of getting better it just gets worse.

I think a better solution is to spend real time together. Not just the odd date but to make a real effort.

Even if it isn't reciprocated for a while it likely will be eventually. It's once this stronger connection is built that the other will feel more attuned to how you are feeling and be more likely to put those feelings into action.

I know that it isn't easy. Especially with a child in the mix to find time for each other.

If you can't afford relationship counselling relate have some useful pages online and you can sometimes chat for free to one of their counsellors online.

Good luck x

I agree you need to prioritise repairing your relationship with DP a difficult pregnancy, birth and PND really change you as a person.

I would give 100% to trying to connect with her because the best long term solution is making your relationship work

Sorry not read all replies so may have already been said. A family member has same circumstance as you and your wife. The biological father works away but does get visits once or twice a year where he moves in for a week or whatever.

1. Establish between the two of you what your daughter calls you - they use mummyliz and mummyjo for example and explain to MIL that this is how she can call you when speaking with your daughter. Be firm and insist it's to prevent confusion for the child as well as affirmation to outsiders who you may regularly come into contact with.

1. Phases of favourites comes and goes but like with most situations a desperate person is an undesirable person (well meaning, so please don't take offence)

1. At the end of the day spent with you as SAHP your daughter will likely run to the 'fresh meat' for want of a better term! Which is totally normal (and frankly a god send at times!) giving you opportunity to relax or get on with things. Taking this behaviour to heart will create issues that needn't be there and try not to allow the doubters words of 'she's not really yours' etc to weigh in on this common occurrence.

1. I'm a mother and I try to get my child's dad to have more involvement and will, for example, place child on him to cuddle on sofa etc, it doesn't work. Child clambers off and comes back to my knee. Then other times child won't let him leave! They're fickle and as the adult you need to just run with it and so long as your daughter is happy - be happy about her choices and try not to read into them.

It sounds to me that you are letting outsiders views/actions take toll on your own self confidence. Having a child affects the structure and dynamics of relationships. I'm not saying you should bottle things in but once you've had a conversation with your wife try to move on and not 'nag' or the snowball effect could overwhelm one or both of you. I'm a bit passive aggressive when it comes to people not adhering to 'rules' (ie. MIL calling you auntie!) and would probably start to laugh with your daughter saying something like 'ohh did gran just call me auntie, haha it's mummyjo isn't it not auntie' then level up to 'ahhh things get confusing when you're grans age'. Probably not the best advice but hey ho! Hope you sort it out

assassinated, I really don't know. It is awful, but I have thought (and we have talked) about whether it's just impossible to go on. Part of the problem is that if we did split up - we're not married - she would be in a financially horrible situation and it'd be awkward.

bam - I do see them, though they're a couple of hours away. My mum is really supportive about 90% of the time, though she does have a firm and old-fashioned belief that if you have a child, you can never split up, and also that if you argue, it is always both people's faults (true to a degree, but not always a helpful answer).

Your MIL is a bit of a bitch. Anyway, moving on. I am bio mum/breastfed two plus years/did about 90% of childcare/contact. My children both prefer their father. And they like aunts/uncles/random friends of mine they’ve only just met even more than they like my DH. Think of it this way. The more time they spend with a person the more secure and more mundane that bond becomes. Your dd knows you are always there so when her other mummy who isn’t always there is around she maximises the attention she gets from her knowing g that she can get attention from you whenever. I know it’s hard not to take it personally but honestly they are just programmed to charm as many people as they can, that’s how they survive.

Hi there, I am both a bio mum and non-bio mum to my two beautiful children, as a fellow lesbian who has been in your situation I completely sympathise. I still have the urge to hit anyone who calls my non-bio child “not really yours”. I had family members call me “step mum” and I had to be very firm and explain legally I am the mother, on the birth certificate, and both children are equally mine.

I can only suggest you try and talk to your MIL and say now your daughter is a toddler she needs to consistently call you (mummy, mama, whatever your title is) or it will cause confusion. And then every time she slips up firmly say No, I’m Mummy. I had to do this with my DM many times (granted that was easier than a MIL relationship)

As for your DD, mine have gone to and fro with their “favourite” over the years. Is there an activity your DD likes doing that can be your thing? Thinking swimming or something she will enjoy. Just to strengthen your bond. You’re right in what you say though that as a SAHP the other parent is always kore exciting - I was a SAHP to both of mine and it drove me nuts that they went crazy when DW came home.

Do keep posting. There are plenty of people in your position (I have a friend who is bio mum whose DC has a strong preference for non-bio mum and she really struggled)
Def keep working at your relationship and if you can get to couples counselling it would probs help. Sending lots of

Found this so interesting my partner and I are currently going through fertility treatment and this is one of my main fears. I won’t be the carrier and I know DPs family,specifically her mum will therefore see herself as “more related” than me. Did you manage to get your DP onside?

Things will get easier. I have been in a similar position. As our DS got older it became a lot more equal. My DP also had PND and that made everything worse. The PND will lift eventually, too.

I also realised that I can only change myself. I can't force DP to get therapy, and I can't change who my MIL is. I had to learn to change how I respond to their crap- so for example I don't take on other people's projected rejection (like calling you auntie. Correct it gently each time but also let it be water off a duck's back-your kid knows exactly who you are).

I've had therapy and I've also been using a CBT app called Woebot and it's been really helpful.

Hi Op
Just wanted to say that as the non-bio mum I totally get feeling pushed out and invalidated by extended family and wider community. Like the rude poster at the start of this thread who said you should “have your own children” - wtf.
However a deeper problem for you is your DPs lack of support and understanding for your situation.
As others have said with time things may improve.
Just be aware that you are doing an amazing job now and are really strong standing up for your children in the face of judgment and criticism. It’s bound to wear yu down sometimes but it doesn’t stop you from being a really great mum with a unique bond with your children.
All the best
DR

Hi OP,

Just seen this thread and wondered how you are doing. I am bio mum to our DS and although our families are different to yours, DP and I consistently make it clear to everyone that we both created our son and we are both his mum in every way that counts.

Have things improved since your original post?