Daughter is due to go to an all girls secondary and now thinks she may be bigender - help!

[Caro382]

My DD age 11 is due to start at an all girls secondary school in September. It isn't our closest school, but she had her heart set on so I was very relieved when she was offered a place. It seems like a lovely school and she still really wants to go. However, I got a phone call from one of her teachers the other day to say my daughter had told her that she thinks she's bi-gender.

Spoke to my daughter and she says that she sometimes feels like a girl and sometimes like a boy. She doesn't feel she wants to change her pronouns or dress differently. She's aware that the school she's going to everyone wears skirts etc and she's ok with that. I don't think it had even occurred to her that identifying as anything other than female might be a problem at an all girls school - in all honesty I don't really know how it would work myself as this has come a bit out of the blue.

As background, my daughter has been very interested in LGBTQ+ questions and rights for several years and has said she'd rather marry a girl than a boy since she was 3. I'd often thought she might come out as gay at some point, but she's never given the impression of not feeling she herself is a girl before. She's also hit puberty in the past year and her body has changed a lot and fast which I know she feels qute awkward about, but I've always previously had the impression of this being about not feeling ready to 'grow up' more than necessarily gender related.

I've obviously told her that I love her whatever, and have contacted a local charity for LGBTQ+ people of all ages and their families to ask if there are options for her to talk to someone who might 'get it' a bit better than me. But how on earth do I handle the question of how to talk to the school she's not even at yet about this? Or would it be better to wait until she's had a chance to talk it through with someone from the charity?

Also she wants to do a talk to her class about being bigender before they finish school in July. I don't think this is a good idea at all until she's had more time to explore what it means to her, as she'll probably get asked a load of questions she can't answer and end up feeling worse than if she'd given herself more time. I'm a bit pissed off with the teacher for letting her think a presentation to the whole class was a good idea to be honest.

School allocations have happened for her year/ our area now so if she can't go to the all girls school she's chosen then our only option is to go to the school admissions people and see what spaces are left at schools which are under subscribed, and then scrambled to figure out new transport arrangements by September as I'm a single parent and work full time.

Does anyone have any advice or has been in a similar position? WTF do I do?

Sorry OP, you obviously feel like you are in a minefield. Personally, I would just send her to the school she was enthusiastic to attend.
I would be there to support her, but this will probably pass as most phases do. If it becomes something else, deal with that as and when.

I’ve not been in this situation so can’t offer any experiences but I’ve read your OP and it all feels a little fast! However your daughter feels or is exploring, and what may or may not happen is quite a bit in the future yet. I would be open and listen (sounds like you’re doing great at it btw and connecting with charities which she will know you have her back with). The teacher called you the other day and so contemplating whether she is going to the right school or not is probably not a ‘right now’ problem, especially when she’s told you she is happy to still go to this school. You can always change schools if any problems arise (not fitting in etc).

Take your time with this. It sounds like she doesn’t want to make any changes and is just exploring the subject. I wouldn’t start making any arrangements.

Oh, and inevitably you’re going to get posts telling you ‘make sure you tell her she can’t change her sex’. Just ignore this - it’s unhelpful. At that age it will push your kid away and feeling like your parents don’t support you leads to awful MH problems down the line.

Honesty ignore ignore ignore. She can't be both a boy a girl. She can only be a girl. Send her to the school you had planned. Bayswater or transgender trend are two good organisations.

She can still go to the girls’ school became she is biologically a girl and always will be, regardless of self how she chooses to dress and present herself.
IIRR most single sex schools are clear in this.
If there is a strict uniform which means a skirt only then she will be expected to wear this.

The talk at school sounds like a bad idea and I’m not sure many schools would agree to it. I’m surprised the idea appears to have come from her teacher, especially in light of recent events and the SC clarification. I would definitely out a stop to that idea. I can’t imagine it would do your daughter any good.

Oh and I forgot the presentation. That does seem like a lot. The only thing I would query is who instigated that? Was it your daughter that came to the teacher, told her because she wanted to do the presentation. Or did she confide and then the teacher suggested? I too think maybe it’s too soon to do this.

Presentation to the class is an absolute minefield.

unless the whole class is preparing presentations on a random topic of their choice she will stand out and is absolutely bound to get questions she will struggle to answer and it’ll cayse a whole load of stuff that it’s not a good idea for her to have to deal with.

in terms of the school, it may be worth thinking about it as her questioning who she is and beginning the process of thinking about who she wants to be. She is a girl. She’s going to a girl’s school.

don’t try to change her new secondary at this late stage because she is questioning who she is and who she wants to be.

If she doesn't want to change her name, pronouns or clothing choices then she doesn't need to announce anything does she? Why does she want to make an announcement to the whole class??

I'd gently advise her to carry on exploring her thoughts and questions for now and that maybe she doesn't need to make a class presentation about it. 🤦

Are all the other year six girls in her class unusually sweet and kind?!? I'm curious because in my experience generally year six girls are sharpening their claws and full of friendship drama. This isn't an age I'd want my kid putting a big controversial sign over their head for people to potentially pick on them about.

Also: does she access things like tiktok/Snapchat/FB anything like that? I'd be curious what she is taking in about genders, and being sure it's balanced and free from gender stereotypes and misogyny.

Step back. Say ‘oh right’ and ‘ok’ and nothing else. Or tell her nobody is a Barbie doll and being female is simply a physical thing and there’s no such thing as ‘boy’ feelings and interests or ‘girl’ feelings and interests and she is her own special, unique, wonderful and precious person. Girls’ schools are for biological females and her personality, feelings and interests are irrelevant. A lesbian tomboy who likes engineering is every bit as much female as a heterosexual girl with contour makeup and fashion.

There was lots of this in year 6 and 7 it’s typical of that stage. “That’s nice dear”is the correct response.

yes, check what she’s looking at on her phone. Gender stuff rapidly leads children to some very dark places on Instagram, Reddit and other places. There are lots of adults more than happy to groom children into their ‘glitter families’ of hormones and mutilation

Why would her genderwoo phase impact on her attending a girls school? Her sex remains female, clearly. A presentation is a horrible idea and you need to shut that down with the teacher now. Agree with those saying go through her phone with a fine tooth comb and reduce her online access.

Your daughter’s a young human female, which makes her a girl, so an all girls school is fine regardless of what she thinks about gender.

As someone said upthread, your best bets for advice are Transgender Trend & the Bayswater Support Group. I’d be very wary of charities like Mermaids & Just Like Us which push gender ideology & may encourage her to think she’s not a girl.

The presentation is such a bad idea because it validates the self obsession that is often at the root of children adopting unconventional gender identities and also validates that being 'bigender' is an important and special thing that requires lots of attention and serious consideration which it really isn't.

Also she wants to do a talk to her class about being bigender before they finish school in July. I don't think this is a good idea at all until she's had more time to explore what it means to her, as she'll probably get asked a load of questions she can't answer and end up feeling

Then don’t send her to an LGBT+ counselling service !

If she is happy with her current pronouns and the school uniform I would just tell her that her sex needs to be never dictate who she falls in love with or how she lives her life, tell her it is normal for young people going through puberty to feel awkward with their new bodies and hormonal surges. I would tell her how people feel and see themselves is never anything to feel embarrassed about but it is also not really anyone else’s business and she doesn’t need to do a presentation about how she feels any more than anyone else, who might feel differently, does.

Watching brief , and lots of ongoing support.

Don't let her do a presentation, there are a lot of parents who would be extremely unhappy with their children being exposed to the idea of 'bigender' being a thing in a place of education. The teacher should know better!

I'd also check what she's looking at on the internet and clamp down on her use.

There's no such thing as bi-gender.
You can think and be yourself. But if you attend a single sex school that's because you're female.

All fo this.

Definitely no presentation! Agee with the PP who said plenty of parents would be enraged that this regressive nonsense is being pushed on their kids at school, plus it boxes her in. Instead of being able to quietly grow out of this regressive nonsense, she will always be the ‘bigender girl’ who feels she can’t go back, especially if she gets a lot of attention and validation for her announcement. I have dark feelings and suspicions about any teacher who thinks this is a suitable thing for a little girl to do.

In Mumsnet parlance, ‘yes dear’ is a full sentence.

Where’s she getting all this? If she has a phone I would take it off her pronto.

Most teens are seeing this as self absorbed now. They get called the “they/thems” and are tolerated but eye rolled about.

An all girls school is a great place for her to deal with this. She'll meet lots of girls who are different- there is more room for a variety of interests at a girls's school so you feel less pigeon holed. You'll also know she is safer than she would be at a mixed school if she claims a 'boy identity '

Mine are also at a girls school there are a few girls like this no one bats an eyelid.

Our DC is at an all-girls school but is questioning gender. DC has always worn trousers despite being one of maybe only 2 pupils who do. School have said they would support social transition if it’s the desired path. We didn’t expect their support so were surprised when they offered. It’s worth asking the question.

Rather than contacting lgbtq+ charities etc I would focus on improving her image of women. It doesn't sound like she has body dismorphia, so it sounds more an issue that stereotypes have become ingrained in her beliefs. You need to send a really strong message that women can do anything men can do, that women who like building things/playing football/like short hair/hate skirts and makeup or whatever she's viewing as "male characteristics" are just as much women as women who like dresses and makeup and fluffy cute things.

In my experience year 6 is full of this type of thing, the kids are questioning who they are and who everyone else is! My dd was frequently asked if she was straight, gay or trans at this age, it’s rife. Just smile and be positive and don’t get drawn into long and meaningful discussions or major life changes.

This may be a stage that passes and if she feels that everyone is invested in her gender identity it is harder to say I’ve changed my mind.