Trans DS jus refuses to talk to us

[AreTheyOrArentThey]

I posted just over a year ago because I discovered my DS thought himself to be a trans girl. We found him an arts based therapist as he really struggles to talk about his feelings and all seemed to be going well until she and I had a weird email exchange and she nearly dumped him overnight so then I lost all trust in her and gently extricated ourselves.

in the meantime, she did provide an opportunity for him to “tell” me himself even though she actually did all the speaking and he just nodded or agreed. We encouraged him to talk to his dad which he via a PowerPoint presentation. Both of us subscribe to watchful waiting and DH in particularly hasn’t engaged with DS since.

I really struggle though, and want him to have my support while he’s going through this crisis, I want to make sure he has a different viewpoint, but he just can’t talk to me at all. So it’s just been limbo really.

it was his birthday party yesterday and he puts on a long black skirt and suddenly his friends show up calling him a female name and using female pronouns.

I need him to open up to us - he has never asked us to use different pronouns or a different name. I am really worried about him going down a social then eventually medical transition route with no input or support. I’ve found a psychotherapy group recommended by Dr Hakeem because I really want him to have actual adult support navigating this that isn’t going to be immediately affirming. If he turns out to be trans we will support him but he’s just 15, has gone through a HUGE geographical move in the last 18 months which we think could be pushing an underlying identity crisis of sorts and frankly this kind of thing you need to be 100% sure about.

I just love him so much and I want to help and I’m struggling so much with not be allowed to. Just wanted to know if anyone had similar experiences and advice - you read just to let it be and it will play out, you read definitely go in and say what you think and mean otherwise they just get affirmed and possibly lead to having to detransition later. I just worry for him in every single aspect and of course I don’t want him to be trans - it will be very hard for him as he’s 6’3.5” and will never pass, and I am towards the GC side of it anyway - but I mainly don’t want him to be unhappy.

why is parenting so hard? I want my lovely little 4 yr old back…..

Have you been in touch with the Bayswater group. They can support you

I wonder if the therapist's supervisor decided you weren't being affirming enough and told her to finish the therapy.
I would do more of the things he will do with you that aren't online. Talk about other things.
Probably not what your DS is ready for, but the detrans stories from young men are pretty scary (and the persistent gender dysphoria in men who will never pass) so leaving aside the whole "you can't change sex" issue, this is not a road that will lead to happiness and all the "her real self" rhetoric will not change that.

Perhaps you just need to take the pressure off 'the big conversation'.

Can you tell him, or write him a little note, to say you know it's a difficult time and that he might want to make different choices but you will always love him, whatever they are. And that there's no need to decide now on anything forever. It's fine for his identity to be fluid and whatever he feels now.

Then lighten it all a bit. But you are going to have to give me a steer on this year's Christmas presents. We can go shopping together if you want and pick out things in your new style or you can tell me what you like.

Whatever he wants for the future it doesn't all need to be mapped out now. I'd just keep reinforcing this whether he responds or not. Non of us at 30 are who were at 15. Some people know absolutely they are gay at that age, others take longer. Just as some people know they want to be a nurse and others haven't a clue and never really do, life just takes them to a job/career through opportunity.

I don't quite understand why we treat trans as different to this. There seems a big pressure to know one way or another but we don't have this for any other aspect of life.

I'd be trying to get these messages in any way you can.

@Calmdown14 i think it’s different for trans because of the long term repercussions of going down the medical route, it can be life altering and life destroying, hence the panic….

@ChocolateCakeOverspill Watchful waiting isn't generally a "thing" for sexuality because sexuality is something innate to a person.

Watchful waiting with trans identifying teens is because it usually resolves itself as the teen matures. I think Stonewall's forced teaming of LGB and T is responsible for a lot of misunderstandings.

@AreTheyOrArentThey , have a chat with Bayswater, they might be able to offer some good advice. They are parents who've faced exactly what you're going through.

You say he held a birthday party - dressed as a girl and his friends called him by a girls name. To me, this says that amongst his peer group he is confident dressing as a female. He probably doesn't say much about it to you because he doesn't know how to approach the subject.
I see all these stories in the media about trans teens and a lot of them either don't talk about their parents at all. Or they say their parents are totally cool about it !
The media doesn't address parents feelings on the trans debate much at all I notice. Don't apologise for the post saying it is about you ! Of course it's about you, you are his mum. You and your DH bought a little boy into the world. Not a girl. You feelings are valid too.
I guess he knows this too but he doesn't have the tools to address it with you ?
The therapist focus on him and his transition and how he is accepted by the wider peer group at school. But parents need a voice too . It is time that more mums like you speak out about how they feel when their child says they are trans.
In my opinion it takes a confident person to come out to their friends at a birthday party but it's far harder for him to talk to his parents as his parents whole lives have revolved around him being a boy.

OP does your son have the opportunity to explore the possibility of being gay?Are there any obstacles to that such as religion etc?

@RudsyFarmer hes not gay - he has previously described himself as a lesbian girl (!!) and def fancies girls over boys. Most of my best friends are gay men, have several close friends who are lesbians, straight friends in open relationships, I even have a few peripheral trans friends so my actions of acceptance are def modelled in terms of who I choose to spend my time with

Thankyou @CHRIS003 it is validating to hear that. He didn’t come out at the party to his friends, I know they all already know.

DH and I went for a soggy dog walk and I reiterated a lot of why you’ve all said especially my own need to get over myself and my micro-management of my teens’ lives - he agrees I’m prob the first one who needs to go to therapy. We are going to find a quiet moment with DS when birthday stuff is all over and have a basic conversation along the lines of “so cool your friends use a different name, do you want to tell us about it” and see where it leads but basically take all pressure off him and us and the trans conversation, see if he wants to go back to therapy as I’ve found an excellent therapist I think will support him explore these feelings and otherwise say we are led by him and we love him. I do worry I’ve gone a bit hard and that’s bitten me on the arse so back to basics and deal with my own need to control his narrative. But importantly we’ll talk together with him so we can come back to our idea of our family team….

"I don't want him too be trans, he'll never pass"
if you want your child too be happy, you should change that mentality. 1. because if they are trans, they'll be alot happier if they are respected and seen as a women. and 2. because height and whatnot doesnt mean someone cant pass.
if they're confused, they will find out, but for now let them do what they think is right, if they're 15 they won't be able too access any medical stuff for years.
Try get them into gender therapy, currently it'll take a while because the national gender clinics having issues but it'll help them astronomically. if they are trans it'll help them feel better and if they are just confused it'll help them realise who they are. and if you want too talk too them, don't push them, just let them know if they want too have different name/pronouns, they should let you know. they'll open up eventually hopefully.
"I just want my 4 year old back"
look, I understand what your saying, but that mentality is unhealthy is general not just relating too this. Your kids gonna grow up, that's just how it is and you need too acknowledge that. You said that your leaning too the GC side of things, but I please advise you too move away from that for your child's sake, you don't want too lose ties with your kid because of anti trans rhetoric
I hope you take what I said and listen, I know what it's like and want too help you in anyway I can.

I think it is good for him that he isn't interested much in social media.
That for you is an plus I think - it seems like a lot of kids doing this as his age are getting a lot of advice from influencers on line.

@CHRIS003 tjats exactly why we’re strict W/R to tech. I don’t want him down a Reddit rabbit hole influenced by people who don’t know or care about him

his friends are great, I love that they’re supporting him and it’s also not a big deal at all to them. One of them took him shopping (when I assume he got the skirt) and I’m glad he has them

I work with a few trans and non-binary people. I think it's important to realise that in this community, many are happy with the idea of never completely transitioning. There's generally a recognition that they can simply identify as who they want to be. It's entirely possible your child doesn't actually want to transition, or hasn't even considered it yet.
As a previous poster said, a gender neutral nickname would be a good idea for them. You said they don't speak to you, perhaps they don't trust. I think you have to make a bold move. Would you be up for inviting them shopping, buy them a new skirt or top? It'll hopefully bring their barriers down, and give you a chance to let them know you accept them as they are, but your worries lie with a possible transition too soon?

I agree with this. We are going through it with our DD (18) right now and I’m desperately keeping any and all conversation going daily to try and keep that connection with her and make life about more that the trans debate. Sending you hugs because I know how hard this is.

@DaizenShine I've already made that offer, and a few others, but am reassured by your comment about those not wanting to fully transition

thankyou @RIPDotCotton it really is….

@AreTheyOrArentThey I think you have misinterpreted my comment.

I am well aware of the medical issues. The point is that there is absolutely no need for him to decide on this or any other aspect of his life right now. Be who you are today but not in a way that can never be changed because we don't do this with anything else. I would be reinforcing that message as strongly as possible to ensure he doesn't go too far down the road that there's no way back.

In an ideal world this would all go back in it's bottle but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option. He clearly has other people he does talk to this about and while I don't support 'affirm, affirm, affirm', there's a strong narrative of parental alienation and it's a difficult line to tread between the two.

Thank you, and I do appreciate this post comes across all about me rather than him which I need to deal with but I really do want to try to help and support him

Maybe that is the way to approach things with your child. Say you love him and always will but that you need to learn how to support him and that you have questions.

Could you get something like a suggestion or a money box where you can all post questions / comments and each of you open the box on a different day and either find a paper answer or an invitation to a discussion.

Also suggestions like, "X told me there is Y on youtube I'd like to watch it with you, do you want that? Should I watch it alone instead?"

For some reason things are sometimes easier when you are not facing each other, driving or walking the dog conversations can also work.

@Calmdown14 yes that exactly the message we try to reinforce. A year ago he was looking at puberty blockers (that’s when we started to crack down on tech) and I talked to him about not making permanent changes (kid has kind of missed the boat on puberty blockers anyway) and recently I found Amazon search for permanent beard hair removal and I brought that up again - all while saying experiment with your clothes and your hair and how you want to present yourself to the world (and why shouldn’t boys wear skirts anyway)

thanks @sashh i can suggest that - though to be honest all the other non face to face communication hasn’t worked in the past (dog walks, car drives, texts, emails)

I wonder if watching some stuff together is a good idea though. He suggested a YouTuber to me last year who I thought was actually really sensible and I liked a lot of her videos

I dont think restricting tech just because they were looking at trans medication. It takes years too access that stuff, and restricting tech can often cause more harm then good. I know as there parent your trying too keep them safe but please try not too be very surveilling

maybe instead of cutting down on tech, help them talk too a professional or tell them yourself that those things are irreversible (puberty blockers may not be but I won't say for sure because noone rlly knows). even so, it can take years too access that stuff

No offence to everyone talking about our attitudes to tech, there are many reasons we parent this way in regards to tech and our education around safety online started when they first looked at a screen. It has been a long process based on deep professional knowledge of the tech industry since they were small - you only need to watch the Social Dilemma to see that many professionals in the tech industry have the same attitude towards their DC’s usage. We won’t be changing the way we restrict or teach our children about how to navigate the online world. I’ve seen how other teens we know have suffered in all sorts of ways because of the access they have to strangers online and our DC are very much part of our conversations around safe internet and tech use.

and of course we’ve spoken to him about irreversible damage of puberty blockers and in fact most medical interventions - my OP clearly states he’s the one that doesn’t talk, not me.

You’re being very blinkered re the tech. No kid wants to sit down and watch you tube videos about puberty blockers etc with their mum. It’s far better to allow them access at 15 and just continue to have open and honest discussions about things. In some ways them being able to access these accounts and view things is a part of them being able to form their own views about things. It’s quite damaging to restrict them and monitor them so closely at 15, it sounds like something you would do to a much younger child. By 15 the horse has bolted and it’s really about how much groundwork you’ve put in with them before then in terms of them seeking unbiased accounts, questioning things and feeling they can discuss things with you. The very fact you’re saying “well this is what we think and what we do and we’re not changing it” speaks volumes.

This is nonsense. Op has clearly explained her families attitude to tech and how it works for them all. To say that restricting and monitoring tech is damaging is absolute baloney. I work in a school and a huge part of our safeguarding training is around internet safety and educating families because it’s well known that unrestricted access and inadequate monitoring is damaging. I’m not saying all tech needs to be restricted but to just not monitor what a child is looking at is ridiculous.

It’s not nonsense. I’m not saying don’t monitor them at all. You’re not reading what I’ve said. I’m saying by the time they get to 15 if you haven’t allowed them some online freedom you’re basically shooting yourself in the foot because they won’t come to you with things they want to discuss because you’ve been so draconian about it all. The time to monitor and come down so hard is way before they get to 15. I have two dc - aged 11 and 20 and we have a really positive open relationship where we discuss all sorts of things. I am fairly laid back with online access, I do make sure (well when the eldest was younger anyway) that they both kept their devices downstairs from 9.30pm and we do monitor what the 11 year old is doing, check messages, searches etc. We tail it off as they get older as teens do need privacy.

The thing is he will be watching these influencers somewhere. He may have another phone, he may watch at school, all the kids know how to get round the controls by 15. He may live chat with his friends having it on in their room.
By 12 most boys have seen porn. They deny it to parents but are shown it on the bus or at lunch on someone's phone.