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LGBT children

This board is primarily for parents of LGBTQ+ children to share personal experiences and advice. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful that this is a supportive space.

The discussion I didn’t want to have

38 replies

RIPDotCotton · 10/07/2023 00:38

Hi- I’m really hoping for support right now (I know a lot of us are in the same boat)
I’ve posted a few times on here and always valued all the opinions offered.
Short story- DD is 18 (19 later in the year) and has fully been presenting as male for 2 years (a ‘tomboy’ since she was young)
We knew she was gender questioning 2 years ago when an incident happened and her Dad came across texts messages. She’s been binding the whole time (obviously got a friend to order it to their house) and the past few months has stopped shaving her legs, upper lip etc so visible dark hair.
We’ve talked about watchful waiting (her Dad and me- she hasn’t spoken about it at all) and have accepted that so far it’s all been temporary (nothing permanent)
Today however, whilst I was driving her somewhere, she blurted out ‘did I remember 2 years ago when she was questioning her gender identity?’
So basically she’s finally talking- even though it’s been the elephant in the room for 2 years and we know- I guess at the same time I’ve been able to put my head in the sand when it hasn’t been talked about:(
She basically said she wants to go to college being ‘out’ which she couldn’t fully explain but I’m guessing means new pronouns and even name (I’m so emotional even though I know these too are temporary)
The main point was she hates her breasts and she did talk about surgery/hormones. I stayed calm and told her many times I adore her and the person she is but I would be scared of her doing anything permanent before her brain is fully ready- eg early 20s.
Of course- she’s all over all the success stories as to how it solves everything and asked me to research the positive stories (!)
So what do I do? I haven’t mentioned it to her Dad as he is literally spending the next few days making the biggest career decision of his life and is super stressed about that. Plus we have family coming to stay for 2 weeks in a couple of weeks so I don’t want to open that box while they’re here.
Legally she can go ahead and do anything and I know that- however we are in the US so no long wait’s necessarily but even if it’s covered by insurance there is still a financial hit that she would need us to cover.
So… helpful advice would be welcome. She did say she wouldn’t do anything without our support but she wants it and I’m terrified that we could permanently damage any relationship with her- the past 2 years she’s withdrawn from the family (she’s all about her friends of which she has masses and they’re all supportive apparently) and we have known she’s stressed but obviously we hoped having a busy full life would keep her away from all this. She has a huge friend group and they’re all straight so she isn’t involved in any LBGTQ activities - actually avoids that tbh - and yes I know that’s sexuality as opposed to gender!)
I’m lost. Up until now it’s been there but she’s never ‘asked’ for support.
I adore her (and I’m aware I’m still using her but we haven’t crossed that bridge yet- although I always try to be gender neutral where I can)
What do I say? To fail to support this next step (that she can legally make) may ruin any relationship I continue to have with her.
I did say (in this brief conversation!) I want her back in therapy, not to ‘change her mind’ but because it’s the right thing to do whatever happens. But, according to her she’s been dealing with this for years and wants to move forward…
Any help, advice, especially from anyone else in this situation would be so welcome right now- I don’t have anyone in real life to discuss this with:(
Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
ChatBFP · 11/07/2023 13:56

What an amazing post, @steppemum

I hope that whatever your daughter chooses brings her peace and happiness and that you are able to find peace (even if not agreement) yourself.

steppemum · 11/07/2023 15:21

OP.
For my dd, being able to live as male (hair, clothes, binder etc) has allowed her enough space with her mental health to get on with life.
For her that included testosterone, as it gave her more masculine features and facial hair.
So I suggest letting her present as male. Hair, clothes and name.
That will give her a lot of space in terms of mental health.
The medical transition is (and should be) a long slow process.
Try and get her on board with no permament changes yet.
Try and hold off on those as long as you possibly can, but it will be a huge relief for her to be able to be Jack not Jaqueline in daily life.

RIPDotCotton · 11/07/2023 15:30

Steppemum - as far as I’m aware- isn’t hormone therapy irreversible? My DD seems fixated on her chest, has been binding for 2 years (she thought I didn’t know) and that’s what scares me:(
Thank you for taking the time to reply- I have no one to talk to, not even DH (I explained earlier why I chose not to tell him what she said just yet)

OP posts:
steppemum · 11/07/2023 17:00

yes I would not be recommending hormones if you can possibly avoid them.
But letting her be Jack in person/clothes and name may go a long way towards what she needs right now.

hormones are partially reversible. If she stops her periods would restart etc.
But she will never lose the facial and body hair and the deeper voice.

RIPDotCotton · 14/07/2023 01:33

So after the brief discussion we had where I mentioned that she hadn’t even had therapy for any issues, she’s already started to organize a therapist that she can see when she’s at college, and zoom when she’s home. The speed she’s done it made me suspicious, so a quick Google has revealed that the one of their specialties is LGBTQ/transgender…
I’m assuming that this is her attempt to get affirmation through therapy (I’ve read so much online about bad therapy making it worse:(
Once again, because she’s 18 I have no say or influence and if I suggest otherwise I’ll be non-supportive and a transphobe:(
I just feel so overwhelmed right now

OP posts:
LameBorzoi · 14/07/2023 02:08

I would be supporting their identity with dress /names / etc. Go shopping for binders. I agree that 18 is too young for an elective surgery with such high complication rates, and would be making it very clear that I would not be funding it until they were older. Hormones aren't as permanent, but I would encourage them to have a very clear understanding of benefits and complications before considering these.

Just because a therapist has a LGBTQI / transgender specialty does NOT mean that they will push medical transition. A good therapist with this specialty will explore these issues in detail and will encourage realistic expectations.

Cindan · 14/07/2023 02:10

I agree with a PP that she needs to also watch some videos of detransitioners.

Does she have any understanding of the health effects of cross-sex hormones? I’d say she needs to read and understand those. Painful sex, vaginal atrophy, hysterectomy, early menopause etc etc. If she’s going to do this then she has to be absolutely clear-headed about the likely impacts on her health.

Codlingmoths · 14/07/2023 03:16

I would talk about fertility, and speak her language - say you make think that’s really a very woman thing, but all the language changes around pregnant people is just so female people like you can have babies within your identity, so clearly there’s a big demand for it. So I wouldn’t make any changes that remove that option for you, or breastfeeding. I’d hate you to spend the rest of your life looking at what others have and thinking I took that away from myself.

Irunoncoffeemascaraandhighheels · 14/07/2023 03:28

RIPDotCotton · 10/07/2023 13:26

I agree with what you’re saying- but how would you deal with pronoun/name changes? Support that but nothing permanent or medical? I’m well aware she could go to any doctor and get testosterone very easily now she is an adult:(

Pronouns isn't something you need to use with a person, it's for when you're speaking about them to others. Easily avoided when speaking with the person, which is what I'd do. I'm GC so I don't support pronoun bullshit. I don't have a problem with anyone wanting to call themselves anything, I'm just not going to agree that it's true that's all. I could eg mention to a neighbor that DC prefers to be referred to as "he" because DC believes they're trans. That's just stating DC wishes and beliefs, I don't have a problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their own wishes and beliefs. I personally wouldn't be referring to a woman as "he" though. If she goes as far as the procedure known as gender reassignment surgery, I'd be happy to consider her a man (but not male, she has the wrong chromosomes for that) and refer to her as "he". Anything less than that I'm seeing it as nonsense. I realize this view may offend but it's my personal beliefs which I'm entitled to, so I'm not interested in getting into any discussions about that with anyone.

Name isn't relevant to sex. People have all sorts of strange names these days, it's not all traditional names of the country of birth is it, so not much difference between having a nickname or an unusual first name. Rejection of the name you chose, I understand it hurts, but even without trans being part of the equation, a person can change their name, go by a nickname/middle name/shortened version you don't like etc. A person making their own decisions is part of growing up and must be accepted, especially if you want to continue having that person in your life. So I'd use the new name, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Your hurt is yours to deal with 💐, she's not trying to hurt you that's the thing to remember, she's doing what is right for her and you just happen to be hurt by it. Same as she'll be hurt if you turn down medical fees for her to do something to her body that you don't want her to do. You're not trying to hurt her by doing that, you're just doing what's right for you, she needs to understand and accept that. Just as you understand and accept her choices. I don't like the emotional blackmail about not being in a room with you, not being around you etc. That's manipulative, threatening to cut you off if you won't do what she wants. Not nice. I wouldn't let manipulation influence my decision. I would be pissed off at attempts to manipulate though and would make my feelings known, because such behaviour is out of line IMO, manipulation is an attempt at control.

Regarding safety, your DC is an adult and is free to make her own decisions about safety. Acceptable risk is a personal decision. Some of us are more risk averse than others. Neither way is right or wrong. It's something you'll have to accept, although you could raise the issue with DC to ensure she's aware of the risk and has considered it. Same with dating difficulty. It's her decision to put herself in that situation. Again, you could raise the issue to ensure she's aware and hope she considers it before making a final irreversible decision. It's wrong to try to control another adult. She has the right to make decisions, even those you may consider to be bad ones. Your feelings about it all are yours to deal with. Your feelings aren't her fault, she's not doing this "to" you, so your feelings aren't her problem to fix.

Are you going through a kind of grief perhaps? Keep in mind she's young and could yet change her mind, either about being trans or about surgery/hormones. You haven't lost her yet, but she's growing up and changing dramatically, I wouldn't blame you if you felt you needed some counseling to come to terms with it and process your feelings. It must be a shock, even if you suspected before. It's a lot for you to deal with.

I'd ask her what does being fully out during college mean to her, what does it entail? Ask her to help you understand what it is she means. It's not judgement, it's clarification. At the moment you're worried, but you don't know about what exactly and you're making assumptions, because she hasn't told you. She's also making assumptions, assuming you know what she means, but you don't. So find out. That's the first step. Communication, compromise, acceptance and respect, on both sides, is the key to successful relationships. You can remain true to yourself whilst respecting your DC as a human being, even if you don't agree with some of the decisions DC makes.

RIPDotCotton · 14/07/2023 14:21

LameBorzoi · 14/07/2023 02:08

I would be supporting their identity with dress /names / etc. Go shopping for binders. I agree that 18 is too young for an elective surgery with such high complication rates, and would be making it very clear that I would not be funding it until they were older. Hormones aren't as permanent, but I would encourage them to have a very clear understanding of benefits and complications before considering these.

Just because a therapist has a LGBTQI / transgender specialty does NOT mean that they will push medical transition. A good therapist with this specialty will explore these issues in detail and will encourage realistic expectations.

I agree that a therapist could be good but to me it’s a huge risk that she may just go and be fueled to move to medicalization way faster:(
Right now I’m in limbo. I told her I’d tell her Dad so we can all talk after we’ve had family to stay, so about 4 weeks time. Right now this is my only outlet as I don’t have any friends I’ve ever talked to about all this- even though it’s been clear something is going on since her appearance has changed so drastically the past 2 years.

OP posts:
Whataretheodds · 14/07/2023 14:31

Codlingmoths · 14/07/2023 03:16

I would talk about fertility, and speak her language - say you make think that’s really a very woman thing, but all the language changes around pregnant people is just so female people like you can have babies within your identity, so clearly there’s a big demand for it. So I wouldn’t make any changes that remove that option for you, or breastfeeding. I’d hate you to spend the rest of your life looking at what others have and thinking I took that away from myself.

Really good point

Whataretheodds · 14/07/2023 14:33

With any elective surgery you would carefully research the risks, pros and cons, look at case studies of people with best case and worst case outcomes. For breast augmentation, nose jobs. Laser eye surgery, etc, that's just normal. And you wouldn't expect someone else to fund it at the drop of a hat, certainly not if you hadn't done the research.

RIPDotCotton · 14/07/2023 14:36

Irunoncoffeemascaraandhighheels · 14/07/2023 03:28

Pronouns isn't something you need to use with a person, it's for when you're speaking about them to others. Easily avoided when speaking with the person, which is what I'd do. I'm GC so I don't support pronoun bullshit. I don't have a problem with anyone wanting to call themselves anything, I'm just not going to agree that it's true that's all. I could eg mention to a neighbor that DC prefers to be referred to as "he" because DC believes they're trans. That's just stating DC wishes and beliefs, I don't have a problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their own wishes and beliefs. I personally wouldn't be referring to a woman as "he" though. If she goes as far as the procedure known as gender reassignment surgery, I'd be happy to consider her a man (but not male, she has the wrong chromosomes for that) and refer to her as "he". Anything less than that I'm seeing it as nonsense. I realize this view may offend but it's my personal beliefs which I'm entitled to, so I'm not interested in getting into any discussions about that with anyone.

Name isn't relevant to sex. People have all sorts of strange names these days, it's not all traditional names of the country of birth is it, so not much difference between having a nickname or an unusual first name. Rejection of the name you chose, I understand it hurts, but even without trans being part of the equation, a person can change their name, go by a nickname/middle name/shortened version you don't like etc. A person making their own decisions is part of growing up and must be accepted, especially if you want to continue having that person in your life. So I'd use the new name, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Your hurt is yours to deal with 💐, she's not trying to hurt you that's the thing to remember, she's doing what is right for her and you just happen to be hurt by it. Same as she'll be hurt if you turn down medical fees for her to do something to her body that you don't want her to do. You're not trying to hurt her by doing that, you're just doing what's right for you, she needs to understand and accept that. Just as you understand and accept her choices. I don't like the emotional blackmail about not being in a room with you, not being around you etc. That's manipulative, threatening to cut you off if you won't do what she wants. Not nice. I wouldn't let manipulation influence my decision. I would be pissed off at attempts to manipulate though and would make my feelings known, because such behaviour is out of line IMO, manipulation is an attempt at control.

Regarding safety, your DC is an adult and is free to make her own decisions about safety. Acceptable risk is a personal decision. Some of us are more risk averse than others. Neither way is right or wrong. It's something you'll have to accept, although you could raise the issue with DC to ensure she's aware of the risk and has considered it. Same with dating difficulty. It's her decision to put herself in that situation. Again, you could raise the issue to ensure she's aware and hope she considers it before making a final irreversible decision. It's wrong to try to control another adult. She has the right to make decisions, even those you may consider to be bad ones. Your feelings about it all are yours to deal with. Your feelings aren't her fault, she's not doing this "to" you, so your feelings aren't her problem to fix.

Are you going through a kind of grief perhaps? Keep in mind she's young and could yet change her mind, either about being trans or about surgery/hormones. You haven't lost her yet, but she's growing up and changing dramatically, I wouldn't blame you if you felt you needed some counseling to come to terms with it and process your feelings. It must be a shock, even if you suspected before. It's a lot for you to deal with.

I'd ask her what does being fully out during college mean to her, what does it entail? Ask her to help you understand what it is she means. It's not judgement, it's clarification. At the moment you're worried, but you don't know about what exactly and you're making assumptions, because she hasn't told you. She's also making assumptions, assuming you know what she means, but you don't. So find out. That's the first step. Communication, compromise, acceptance and respect, on both sides, is the key to successful relationships. You can remain true to yourself whilst respecting your DC as a human being, even if you don't agree with some of the decisions DC makes.

I agree about the manipulation- and from what I’ve read there is a lot online from all the ‘keyboard warriors’ giving young adults like my DD almost a script to follow- and advising them that any parental reservations are just transphobia and what to say when parents present the opposite viewpoint or challenge them in any way:(
Of course I’m making assumptions based on our 15 min conversation but I’ve been reading about this for 2 years now. She’s kept progressing down this route without wavering. My dread was any mention of surgery and hormones. Even though she said she wasn’t sure what she wanted to say, when I asked about what coming out in college looked like she couldn’t bring herself to say it- so I asked gently ‘do you mean name and pronouns?’ and she said ‘well you don’t see any men with my name’ (her name is completely female although it could be shortened to a gender neutral version)
She’s always been an ‘all of nothing’ kind of kid, with obsessions through the years eg always goes 150% into anything she does. Which scares me with this because all I want is for her to give herself time. Even if she’s legally an adult, she’s still so young.
Yes the hurt is mine, I know that. And I’m grieving. I’m lost and frightened about a scary future for her (if you follow US politics at all then you’d know how much radical conservatism is rising rapidly and proper anti-LBGTQ and transphobic rhetoric is the basis of political campaigning and law making in some states)
Thank you for replying. You have no idea how appreciated it is. Definitely wise words.

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