Dd 17 influenced by trans person

[Moomoola]

Hidd She’s 17 and been seeing a girl who has been taking hormones since she was 15.
our dd has been increasingly isolating from us and seeing this person more and more. We were concerned as she seems to be neglecting school work and self care and seems to be obsessed with seeing this person to the point where she lied to us about going to her Saturday job so she could sneak off and see this person.
On Friday I said she could stay at this persons as she was already there and it was cold and late. She kept pushing to stay longer, next week etc etc. she came home Saturday.
on Sunday we woke up to a note that said she had had a bad night thinking suicidal thoughts and she’d gone to this persons to have a few days to think. If we didn’t let her, she’d have surgery or hormones. She sent us a text as to why we disrespected her, but it seemed completely misunderstanding. We’d never said she has to wear dresses etc.
we managed to talk, and she came home but insisted she needed to see her other friend which I thought was reasonable, but of course she ended up at the other persons home.
shae said the other person was panicking when dd didn’t text her which made me feel a massive red flag as to manipulation.
She again insisted she needed a break and time to think, by staying at this other persons home. She didn’t want to be rude to their mum, so stayed for dinner. I had to bite my tongue as I thought she was being very rude to us.
anyway, yesterday we get a text that she needs to stay at this persons home to think things through. I tried to say we love you whatever you identify as. She said she’d come home on Thursday, tonight she said she’d see.
im super concerned as it feels like she’s being heavily influenced. Dh chatted to a councillor who said it’s a cult and to be very concerned. Has anyone got any advice, sorry for the long post

The councillor sounds like an idiot so I would knock dealing with them on the head immediately as they just seem to want to force their bigoted opinion on your DH.

I think with any teen issues the more you push the more you send up pushing them away. Make it clear you are there for them when they need you.

Thanks we’ve tried that and she seems to be getting more and more distant and perhaps influenced by this person. She did ask about establishing boundaries.
it’s causing stress between Dh and I and son 14 is obv upset too. He won’t decorate the tree without her and she’s never here.
bare tree, not very nice!

How about letting her know that her little brother wants to see her and decorate the tree. If she comes back avoid deep convos for now and try to have some relaxed family time.
she does sound like she’s being influenced and manipulated but she probably won’t want to hear that now and will push further away.
the trans ideology is a tricky one and I’m not sure why it appeals so heavily to some teens other than as a way to feel they are expressing an identity that pushes boundaries even though doubtless you don’t care one bit how much she conforms to gender stereotypes.
Just try and stay calm and non confrontational and keep encouraging time with other friends and interests too.

The councillor sounds sensible to me.

Thanks so much. I’m also handling Dh who is beyond anxious and not helping. I suggested that when she comes home we don’t make a big deal and decorate tree tc. Dh is saying I’m trivialising things.
I think we need to reassure her and build her trust that we won’t be confronting and awful. Maybe have the discussion slowly over Christmas. We have gusts on sat for 4 days too which doesn’t help!

Thanks cosmo. Why do you think the councillor sounds sensible? And saesonfinale Wharton do you mean by forcing bigoted opinion on Dh?
Thanks

Totally trust your instincts a mother. You are not a bigot, dont let anyone convince you otherwise.

Abigail Shrier's book 'Irreversable damage' discusses how being transgender is a social contagion amongst teenage girls, how girls often become trans due to a friend. She has advice and insights.

Also look at pitt.substack.com/. A regularly updated substack of blogs from parents of teenagers who suddenly turn trans (alongside their friends). There are some stories where the parents manage to maintain a relationship with their child, and others where the child becomes aliented. Advice and wisdom to be found there.

A great book on mind control, cult or otherwise is Stephen Hassan's famous book 'combatting cult mind control'. On that he explaons how to rewcue a love one who is being heavily influenced by another person or organisation.

It sounds like you do have a good counsellor there.

Gosh thankyou blessedkali
she has texted to say she’ll be home tomorrow, not tonight as previously said.
im just pleased she’s texted Dh cross because I’m now saying we can’t go round there and insist she comes home - I think that would send her further away. Dh was told by counsellor that it’s a cult, she’ll have been suggested to change her name then ‘they’ will work to drive a wedge between us. Dh very anxious and upset and convinced she’s in a cult/ is being persueded to take hormones.
she might be, but I feel we should be supportive and if we go round there we will alienate dd.
Dh tells me, well calls me fairly rude things actually. But he is stressed. Doesn’t help!

Has your daughter ever mentioned issues with her gender identity before meeting this person?

Dh says I’m too lassaiz faire however you spell it. I don’t think jumping up and down helps. I don’t like that he’s cross with me, though I get that he needs to be cross.

Thanks detectorists yes, there was a very attractive andogenous girl in the upper years who identified as a boy and I think her head was turned. She ( my dd) wanted to look like someone out of bts and I tried to show her the men in the park where we were and explained that none of them looked that way!
she apparently was toying with the idea when she was 14/15 and the stupid guidance counsellor at school got all keen and called me up to refer to her as her chosen name so it was all a bit of a surprise. She later said she wasn’t ready for it to go public and guidance teacher had made it a thing before she was ready. It certainly caused a lot of anxiety.Dh tells me schools get badges of merit for being accepting.
it’s one thing to think Annie Lennox/ Bowie are cool, of course there’s a fascination when you are young, no problem. I’m just nervous because this person has been taking testosterone since she was 15 apparently and I’m very nervous dd will be forced into it. Dd is v naive and very easily influenced.
Dh talked to a counsellor who said this person may be looking for support. She unfortunately does look very wierd. Very feminine with a wispy beard.
I’ve also known people who have had surgery and either it went wrong, or they tried to de transition and they were really not happy people. Happy for dd to identify as whatever, just don’t do anything permanent!

Sorry, long post! Emotional! Sil is now saying she doesn’t want to visit from abroad next week as she doesn’t want her 14 year old ( who is dating a girl) to be influenced.
pits been planned for months. I’m upset! Aibu?!

I think it is fair enough that you are upset as I imagine that you were very excited to see your sister, and I also think it is fair enough that your sister doesn't want her daughter influenced. Teenage girls are very prone to influence/social contagion, so it sounds like your sister is doing her best to protect her daughter.

Just don't blame your daughter or even her friend for this. If you or your husband get angry at your daughter or her friend for the disruption, it will just push her away and cause further alienation.

Be loving, kind, compassionate to your daughter... And please read some of those resources for better understanding on what to do. Get your husband to read them too.

Thanks. It’s so confusing trying to teach her to think for herself means she left home for 3 nights to be with friend as she needed to do it for herself. Lot of angst for us!

OP the counsellor is right. It's so tricky because the more you pull her back the more she will resist. But the more you accept it the harder she'll go. I'd think about reposting this in AIBU just for the heavier traffic and differ of opinions.

Does she have many other friends that are not trans?

Thanks sendhelp I will try this in Aibu. She wanted to go out again yesterday, lying to get a lift to the bus stop. I’m afraid I said no, she’s caused a lot of worry and she needs a balance as she seems to be neglecting other areas of her life. Also why lying again?!
she did ask for she could pop out with her friend round the corner and they played knock down ginger! So nice to see them giggling.
the trans friend went private to get hormones. Now doesn’t take them so often as she feels she’s reached the right amount of maleness. That doesn’t sound healthy thinking. She just looks so wierd.

Just to say — I have some experience of this — wherever you stand on trans issues, a counsellor should not be describing anything as a cult or suggesting you be concerned. That’s just bad counselling and bad advice. A counsellor should not be putting forth their opinion on a subject in a therapeutic context.

Make friends with the trans person and have them at your house. Act normally and most teenagers would hate the fact you normalised it and maybe pull away?

Dh chatted to a councillor who said it’s a cult and to be very concerned.

Well they're right. It is a cult

Did you mean councillor (as in local councillor/ politician) or counsellor (as in therapeutic support?)

Any therapeutic counsellor who describes something like trans identification as a 'cult' is not doing their job properly, they are meant to be impartial. So if that's the case, yes, knock that on the head.

It sounds like your daughter could do to talk to someone impartial about whatever is going on for her. Could you have a chat to her about whether she would take up any support to talk things through with someone? Colleges often have connections with emotional support services for young people, that could be a starting point if she is attending college.

I guess the counsellor was not talking in an official capacity? It's a really tricky situation OP. My gut reaction is that you need to get dd to spend less time with this person, at least for now. It doesn't seem like a healthy relationship. Could you go away for Christmas?

Hello, looking for somewhere to go!we are a bit isolated as no family just us four. Jealous of big families!
dd has got a session of counselling through school. Nervous, how do I know they’re not going to be affirming

It might be worth posting on the sex and gender feminism board for further help. Try speaking to her school counsellor first and find out if they are affirming.

With rgeards to the first counsellor, if her daughter had joined the church of scientology and the counselor informed her it was a cult, would that be inappropriate? Or just factual.

What is happening to teenagers is cult like, it ticks all the cult red flags:

Name change, personality change, appearance change , old self is 'dead', estrange from family to find 'new' ''glitter'' family, everything will be fixed once you are a member, mantras (transwomen are women) and an embedded fear of the outside world which holds you in the cult (parents are your enemy, society hates you and is out to get you).... These are the markers.

Agree it is very cult like, and very attractive to teenagers esp if they are feeling vulnerable. The alienating from parents that is being touted from groups, social media is particularly damaging.

If I were I’d do everything possible. I don’t agree with the modern laissez faire can’t do or say anything to a teenager as it will ‘push them away’. However that’s not to say that it isn’t a delicate situation, being 17 they will want to make their own decisions. So it’s more making it much more difficult to make the wrong decisions, and much easier to make the right ones. Through any means including going on holidays and just re centering your child, on what’s important, what’s of value ie healthy relationships that do not require you to rush into new identities and alienate your closest people.

Thanks both.
Blessedkali thanks for the explanation of what is happening. This is exactly it. Encoured to change her name. Obsessed with gf. Tho I said I have no problems with gf. Husband tried to say 'cult etc. Which was her reason to leg it to gf s and say we are transphobe.
Ffs