Losing my child over gender

[Bendybuses]

Hello, we have had a gradual change over about a year from I might be gay to non-binary to I think I'm a boy and want treatment.

We agreed to a name change and school and try to use 'they' - but I can't bring myself to use 'he'. I'm so torn, if I support what they want as the next stages - referral / hormones / testosterone and eventual surgery it just isn't something I agree with. But if I disagree I am losing my child "why can't you support me" "it is the only thing that will make me happy, don't you want me to be happy".

The pressure from them is relentless, and I feel at a loss. They won't talk, they just text or voice message and I get a string of messages like those above most days. Our line has been that if they want medical interventions they have to wait till they are an adult, this is a decision for them to make as I can't support it.

We don't have family near and they have opted out of all the activities they used to do. I'm always trying to get them to do things and they refuse, won't even come for a walk. They don't help around the house and are really negative and basically horrible all the time. I saw a message to a friend where they said how much they hate me.

This relationship is breaking. I don't want that to happen, should I ignore "whatever thing your moral compass has twisted to make you think it the right thing to do" (most recent message) and support the next stage.

Either way it is breaking my heart.

@User0ne

You're right to fear permanently damaging your relationship.

My sibling waited till 18 to come out to my mum because they didn't think my mum would accept it - and they were right. Their relationship totally broke down and my sibling didn't have any contact with my mum until we knew my mum only had weeks to live (so no contact for about 10 years).

You don't have to lose your child over this but you might

That's really not very helpful is it?

This is a parent who is worried about her child potentially going down a path of mastectomy, infertility, bone density issues, brain development issues, sexual dysfunction, vaginal atrophy, issues from testosterone use etc.

And you're here saying 'yeah, if you don't do exactly as your 14 year old says you will totally lose her'.

Why can't people show a bit of empathy?

What was it about your sibling being trans that your mum couldn't accept?

@CorrBlimeyGG

The courts should have your back if it came to it given recent cases.

The courts have made it clear that decisions around medical treatment are to be made by clinicians in conjunction with Gillick competent patients.

What under 18 child can really be 'Gillick competent' about the full consequences of a pathway starting with puberty blockers?

Parents I know in this position have universally gone along the line of using the pronoun their child wants and supporting them whilst taking a neutral line on the possibility of medical treatment. Nowadays children won't get irreversible medical treatment so you have time to see how all this pans out. If you lose the relationship now because you won't support your child, you will regret it for ever.

Support dies not have to me agree with or do what the child says

Support means help a child to grow and mature into a happy healthy individual

You child may need mental health support

Good grief anyone suggesting taking actions that will harm them physically should have mental health support

I can't see a difference between wanting physical transustion and other forms of self harm

What under 18 child can really be 'Gillick competent' about the full consequences of a pathway starting with puberty blockers?

Some will, some won't. You could ask the same question about whether an under 18 child can be competent about the full consequences of having sex including dangers of infection, dangers of contraception, risk and dangers of pregnancy, dangers of abortion, dangers of childbirth, risks of having children with disabilities, risks of post-natal depression, problems in looking after babies and small children, risk to future and career, etc etc etc? But that ship sailed a long time ago.

@User0ne

You're right to fear permanently damaging your relationship.

My sibling waited till 18 to come out to my mum because they didn't think my mum would accept it - and they were right. Their relationship totally broke down and my sibling didn't have any contact with my mum until we knew my mum only had weeks to live (so no contact for about 10 years).

You don't have to lose your child over this but you might

Come out? As lesbian or gay? That's not the same thing.

It is very hard - I am dealing with this a generation removed - it is my dear GD, whom I love so much.

Her parents have said that whatever she chooses in life they love her. They have met her halfway: manly hairdo, breast binder, suppression of periods with the pill, using "they" and a new name. They also went with her to Gay Pride.

She/he/they knows that family support and love is a given; but also knows that we are all concerned that they should not make irrevocable decisions too soon. It is not a source of conflict and strife because they know that all the decisions are made from a place of love. This is a position that has not been reached without much heartache and worry but it seems a good place to be at present.

I send you fellow feeling - it is a hard nut to crack.

OP I've been through this with both my daughters and have come out the other side. I did watchful waiting ie neither denying or affirming.

Although some people might say what's the harm in using pronouns, for me it was another micro step towards medical transition. My eldest, who is autistic, desisted after 4 years and now says gender ideology is cobblers and she doesn't have a gender identity. My youngest is just emerging after a year and is having therapy.

You need to do what's best for your family. Bayswater has been a great support to me

@Platax

Parents I know in this position have universally gone along the line of using the pronoun their child wants and supporting them whilst taking a neutral line on the possibility of medical treatment. Nowadays children won't get irreversible medical treatment so you have time to see how all this pans out. If you lose the relationship now because you won't support your child, you will regret it for ever.

Wow, the emotional blackmail on this thread is like talking to a roomful of teenagers.

DO WHAT I WANT OR I WILL NEVER SPEAK TO YOU AGAIN.

OP - Bayswater is supposed to be very helpful. You can also have a look at the transgender trend website.

I'd also keep a very close eye on what your daughter is doing online. There is a script that circulates on Reddit etc which tells kids exactly how to play it, what to say to teachers, what to say to get cross sex hormones etc. There are a lot of people who are very invested in keeping young women in a permanent state of prepuberty. Their motivations aren't usually very savoury

@Platax you are talking rubbish I'm afraid.

How difficult OP - and you're not alone. Parenting teenagers is bloody hard. Supporting your child doesn't always mean giving in and letting them do everything they want - especially as you've said:
we have had a gradual change over about a year from I might be gay to non-binary to I think I'm a boy and want treatment .

This is not a fixed position - your child is exploring and (probably) being influenced as well.

Have a look at this brilliant new organisation:
genspect.org/ - there's lots of wise advice on there.

They're texting you because they can't face the human contact. It's easier to issue a string of demands - "call me this, do that, I am this" by text. It's how they communicate online about this ideology - for many it's not rooted in reality - they're lashing out and you're the target. They don't want to look you in the eye and really talk. They're confused and hurting.

I'd set some compassionate boundaries:
No more communication by text / voice mail.
Limit the amount of conversations about the issue but perhaps have a "reset" discussion?:
"We can't continue like this - you're unhappy and so are we. We love you and are on your side - even if it doesn't feel like that. We can get through this but we need to try to listen more?"
Insist on reasonable participation in family life.
Sometimes an issue becomes so great we become part of the problem as teenagers battle us rather than addressing the issue (if you see what I mean?)
Monitor internet access - and consider restricting it IF you think they're online too much and accessing dubious sources. That won't go down well but I'd make it part of the contract to engage civilly in family life.

No matter how hostile your child is, you need to try to break through that. Not in a pleading way but by letting them know that you love them, you're on their side, you'll support them with this as they mature if in time, they decide it's what they want etc etc. As others have said - watchful waiting with listening and love.

Wishing you the very best.

@Burnamer

I understand not supporting permanent medical changes in a child but why for goodness sake can’t you get on board with calling your child a he? What harm would it do you? And yet it seems it would mean the world to your child.

This. They may accept your decision about the medical treatment better if you seem to be offering some support.

@moomoogalicious

OP I've been through this with both my daughters and have come out the other side. I did watchful waiting ie neither denying or affirming.

Although some people might say what's the harm in using pronouns, for me it was another micro step towards medical transition. My eldest, who is autistic, desisted after 4 years and now says gender ideology is cobblers and she doesn't have a gender identity. My youngest is just emerging after a year and is having therapy.

You need to do what's best for your family. Bayswater has been a great support to me

That's good to hear. It must have been tough.

Does the mmmm your child have another parent ? Sounds like you're dealing with it all alone. They sound really unhappy, there are so many people with loved experience (channel 4 documentary) on Julie that show real life experiences of living through transgender reassignment surgery, thinking it will solve all of their problems and finding out the reality is very different. Sounds like trying to build up your relationship and putting in place some clear boundaries about helping around the house and talking to you respectfully are needed. You can listen and reflect back their feelings without agreeing, so that they feel listened to. Hope things improve. Also counselling

A young friend of mine at 15 said she was trans, she cut her hair, wore men's clothes, wanted to be called he and changed name but didn't have any treatment - 3 years later she let her hair grow and whilst she is not a feminine women and uses the gender neutral name she uses female pronouns and now is in a loving sane sex relationship now at 21. The idea of being gay actually she found harder to accept, strange that but now she is happy.

@MrsOvertonsWindow Thanks, you are right, we need to reset. Whenever I've tried it ends in tears but I will.

Thanks to everyone on the thread, it is helpful to hear all the opinions and know that there are other people out there too. I'll look at the groups mentioned.

I'd love tips on how to talk to them about this, I'm failing as I'm so strongly opposed to escalating the process to hormones, testosterone and surgery and that is the door they keep pushing at (we slowly agreed to name change / binders so it is the next thing). This is all they want to talk about.

@greendiva asked if there is another parent. There is, and they are doing their best and have a similar pov to me - but they have recently been diagnosed with a degenerative illness. While the kids seem to have taken this well (as far as that is possible) it might be having an impact too. I find myself getting thinking how self-obsessed the whole gender thing is when some people are facing illness, loss of job and independence. But then I was a selfish teenager so I think it maybe goes with the job. I'm just not in my best patient parenting frame of mind.

I'd really advocate spending a bit of time on the sites for parents - Bayswater, Genspect, Transgender Trend are full of thoughtful compassionate adults who share useful advice.
It sounds as if you've got a huge load and a major shock - so you all need to be gentle with yourselves. I'd try to reduce the tension as far as possible.
This issue is all absorbing for children - because it's all about them, their identity, their thoughts etc. They need to see themselves as learners, family members, singers, footballers, friends, group members, anything so that this issue is just another aspect of their lives and not all absorbing.

How you talk about this I think varies massively in terms of all our knowledge and experience. Maybe try to listen as much as possible, hold onto anxieties and try not to react to comments until you've had a chance to process and look at these resources?

My mantra is "I know you need to grow up and be independent, I know you need to make your own mistakes but I also want to protect you from making bad decisions that might affect you in the future. I promise to listen and try to let you more freedom and you have to try to understand that I'm trying to protect you when I say no because I love you".

I also wouldn't underestimate the impact of your recent news It sounds as if you could all do with some tlc? Might that be a way in - get them involved in organising something nice as a family?
Sorry if this is too much in terms of suggestions.

You are in such a difficult situation and I feel for you. I would be very reluctant to support any physical changes, including hormone therapy, so young. The main argument for hormone treatment is to delay puberty and in your daughter’s case, that ship has sailed anyway. I can tell you that the Tavistock Gender Service has a fast turnover of Clinical Psychologists. This is because, anyone in the team suggesting delay, further assessment etc, seems to so often be shouted down and even called transphobic. No Psychologist worth their salt will work in that situation. There are young people who have started on transitioning, only to change their minds later (hence the recent court ruling that no physical treatment should be carried out until age 16 at a minimum, later over-turned on appeal). Working as a Psychologist in Adult Mental Health myself, I have seen adult patients who are gay, who have said “thank God, sex change in adolescence wasn’t a thing in my day. I was so confused, I would have gone for it, but now I am happy to be a lesbian/gay man”.

I’d put this stuff to your daughter, explain you love her and will always support her. That if she wants to transition when she is 16 (preferably 18, but if she is determined, she will be able to consent by 16, maybe even 15), you will support her. Then you are not saying ‘no’, you are just saying ‘not yet’. She still needs you, so you won’t lose her if you are just insisting she wait.

A very difficult situation.

Please don't lose touch with your child because of this, I don't feel it will help either of you. Unless they have the ability (money) to go private they will not be able to do anything except through the NHS and the current waiting times for Gender services are almost three years, so they will likely be an adult before they can actually do anything.

You don't have to agree with everything they want to do or say you agree, just be there to listen to them.

Good luck.

I'd really suggest you visit some website that aren't from the "mumsnet" side of things. Sites for parents who support their children through transitioning.

I know and love many, many trans adults, who are all happy, healthy people. It would be helpful for you to step out of this echo chamber. I think it is fear mongering to say your child might change his mind. Far more likely is he'll realise that his relationship with you is over. What a terrible thing for him to have to go through.

Ah that sounds so tough. It must be awful to feel so low about yourself you feel you need to become a totally different person to accept yourself and moreover be accepted by the world. I would be doing the same as you OP. What a horrible fine line to tread.

AnnieSnap great post

You dont ask a 14 year old can I come too, you TELL a 14 year old that you are coming to speak to the school too!

@Bendybuses so sorry to hear that, you all have a huge load to carry. If you're able as cliche as it sounds, try and find time for yourself, see a friend, go for a dry autumn walk, if counselling is affordable a good listening ear could help. As others have said, try listening to your child without passing judgement or opinion. And in my experience boundaries do help teenagers feel like some of the pressure is taken off them and they can relax a bit knowing you're looking out from them.