Mortgage, CSA and expatration

[roselips]

Fairly complex, but wondering if anyone might be in a similar situation and can offer advice.

DP has 2 children (9 and 5) from previous (unmarried) relationship who live with BM. We also have our own 2 children (1 and 4).

Currently we pay full maintenance for older 2 children as well as fully servicing the mortgage on their house which amounts to about £1500/month. (CSA 600+, mortgage 800+).

DP has just been offered a job overseas which we will likely have to take (given the current job/fiscal conditions in the UK) and therefore move abroad - and naturally our financial circumstances will change considerably.

We are perfectly happy to continue the financial support, although we do not want to be responsible for that mortgage in this country as it may hinder our ability to move forward with our lives due to credit scoring. The alternative would be for DP to lose his job - and of course everyone would lose out in that scenario.

The only advice we have currently is from our solicitor who told us at the time of their split that we would have to continue to service BM's mortgage (she lives there rent/mortgage contribution free)until the children were grown up, at which point we could force a sale, but that she would be entitled to anything up to half the capital for a mortgage we had paid.

Any advice would be appreciated. (please bear in mind we want to support the children financially, but not to the detriment of the youngest children - which is often the case).

It does sound a strange arrangement. Was this a court settlement, private but court sanctioned or just a private verbal arrangement.

Eleanor - up to half, depnding on what the court decided - it would have been her home for 2 decades, and is in joint names. It would probably cost us considerable legal fees to force the sale as well. And yes, DP is a very noble man. The 600 is what the CSA tell us we should pay which is fine and we could apply for a variation because we pay the full mortgage - but the variations are tiny and probably pointless, thus we are stuck with that. Of course when the time came we could prove we have serviced the mortgage in full, but a court is still likely to give her some or half the capital. The capital will not go to the children, the house and mortgage is not in their names.

Wild - no court settlement - they were not married so no divorce and no financial seperation. The CSA advised us what to pay in CM. The mortgage is a seperate issue. As DP can afford to pay it (by the skin of our teeth I might add, and certainly few luxuries or family holidays etc) he has to or the bank would foreclose and we would be blacklisted (and he would lose his job). We just had no choice, and we have continued this arrangement for 4-5 years now. Plenty of time for her to become financially independent of her ex-partner one would think? We are rather stuck in this hole because the mortgage company will not allow DP to remove his name - of course not - she couldn't pay it anyway, and we are unable to force a sale via court until children are 18.

We want to pay what is due, of course. But are unable to move on properly while this financial burden of the mortgage still exists - would happily give her more money just to free up our own credit situation.

As for moving abroad - I suppose if we wanted to play hardball we could stop all CSA payments until an agreement was reached with the mortgage. However this would inevitably mean he would lose access to the children entirely, despite having court orders on that issue - and a situation that would be very hard to manage from abroad. (historically despite him always paying full maintenance and the mortgage she prevented him from seeing them for over a year - of course courts consider money/access as unrelated).

We will be seeking legal advice soon, but I think we will be told the same things.

Can you elaborate further on how the move abroad would cause your financial situation to change considerably? How exactly - other than the fact that he'll be earning/living in a different place?

Also, if your DP is made redundant in his current job presumably he'll receive some sort of package? Often that lump sum is especially helpful for those who already have another job lined up, as it is 'extra money' which allows payoff of debt/big contribution to savings, pension/means to fund a big ticket item. Could that be the case for your DP?

Does BM work outside of the home currently? Do you? If no to both, are there any plans for that to occur at some point?

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to understand why your DP is paying the mortgage? They were not married therefore he has no financial liability towards her. He is paying maintenance for his children via his children and this is where his liability should end. with regards to his ex ceasing contact should he stop paying maintenance, these are two completely separate matters and she simply cannot do that.

Earlybird - the city to which we may be moving to is one of the most expensive in the world, and although we may get an umbrella expat package, we will still need to find school fees for 2 little ones (which we currently don't need to find in the UK) at en english speaking school - inevitably this will have to be private. We are very early on in the process and are as yet unaware how (or even if this is viable financially)the package may effect us, but pretty sure the financial implications could be considerably different - he may get paid more, but the cost of living could escalate hugely.

There is little chance of a redundancy package currently - no money in the pot for such things. Rather this corporation will "manage him out" if for example he doesn't take the new job offered in the new country. They're sharks, yes. Redundancy will only be offered if they actually make him redundant - they haven't - they've offered him an alternative. If he doesn't take it - that's his choice and loss ultimately.

BM does work a few hours/week but as far as I am aware this is probably cash in hand/ad-hoc. Not known if she declares it. I do not work currently - we live in a village (not many local jobs) and can't afford a second car to get to a local town. Childcare for one or both seems to make it non-viable for me to do this, and weekend/nightwork seems also out of the question as DP often works late/away, and spend time with 2 stepchildren every other weekend who live 3 hours away (we had to move here when his job moved here to ensure we could pay up!) I'd have to earn quite a lot to make it worthwhile after taking childcare, transport etc into account. I would like to work but can't see this happening until youngest is school age and some of these issues start to resolve.

mumoverseas - The alternative is he stops paying the mortgage. As she is not able to the bank would foreclose. As he works in finance he cannot afford to be blacklisted or he would lose his job. This has all been handled under solicitors' advice, it's not like we were given any options about that. If he only paid half of it (mortgage/house is in joint names) they would still come after him for the money as she has no "real" income. We also paid several thousand for court action for him to force the access issue as she wouldn't allow him to see the children at the start(despite him being an excellent father). Of course we are not entitled to legal aid as it is means tested on our income, nevermind that we lose half of that income before it enters our household. We also get zero help anywhere else as again the means testing means they count the "income" that we don't actually have.

Although I sense a little disbelief that he has to pay the mortgage, we have been legally advised that as he is able to pay the mortgage, then he has to continue to do so. We have explored other options like - just stop paying it (bank forecloses, blacklisted, loses job, all the children lose out - not an option), stop paying the CSA payments in lieu of the mortgage (CSA chase us, children suffer - DP will not do that), more legal advice (further legal costs we cannot afford, not able to get legal aid, and probably arrive at same asnwers we've had all along), forcing house sale (BM will not agree to a sale, so forget that, but also a court will see that he can pay it so will not force a sale etc).

Please do keep asking if this is still unclear.

I am actually at a loss where to go to next on this - it is a fairly oppressive and difficult thing to hang over my family, and sometimes I wish DP wasn't such a nice and noble fellow. I may have to tell him to grow some!

Just one comment , you can force sale the house. A court could order that. I have a friend who paid for 5 years, before deciding enough and he has a court order forcing the sale. First lawyer said not a lot you can do, the second one got the order really quickly.

The BM might get 60+% but at least he is off the hook.

Its just a comment, whether he goes down a force sale is really up to the both of you - I am not suggesting he should or shouldn't.

sorry, my earlier post should have read 'he is paying maintenance via the CSA, NOT children' Sorry, had wriggly baby on lap I appreciate it is a difficult situation ref him not wanting to get blacklisted if he stops paying the mortgage but surely you need matters resolved once and for all. I'm suprised that he was advised to carry on paying the mortgage for the unforeseeable future. You need to sever all financial links with his ex (apart from the childrens maintenance of course) I think he really needs to think about making an application to the Court for an order for sale. No doubt she won't make things easy but you have moved on, you have your own family and he cannot be expected to carry on paying a mortgage for a house he is not living in. They were not married so he has no financial responsibilty for her. I'm sorry, but I think he was badly advised when they split up. Its not easy getting an order for sale when parties not married and she will be difficult but if you want to move on with your lives you may have no choice. Otherwise, you will be carrying on like this for years. The courts can and will make an order for sale if it is appropriate. You need to seriously consider a Trusts of Land application (I think that is the one you need) It will take a while (possibly up to a year to go through all the court proceedings but its the only way you will get this sorted once and for all and he will get his share of the property)

Ah, ok - didn't realise the new job possibility was with his current company.

Is there any chance dp's company could offer school fees in the expat package? Some companies do - especially in countries where private school would be a necessity rather than luxury. I've also heard of companies offering a living allowance when employees are moved to very expensive cities - partly as incentive and to ensure employees' standard of living doesn't slip, and partly for favourable tax reasons.

It sounds as if you/dp don't have enough information yet about the possible move to anticipate what your financial situation could be.

One word of advice: make sure he has a clause that the company will foot the bill for moving the family back to the UK if he is made redundant while in the foreign country. I know someone who neglected this clause in their package, and had to pay to ship themselves/their belongings 'home'.

Is it worth remortgaging the ex-dp's house? Rates are extremely low atm, and you may be able to fix at a much better rate which could bring some financial relief.

Thankyou very much all of you, very welcome advice and certainly some things we can investigate and follow up - much appreciated. I will relay this information back to DP and see if we can't find some kind of solution that suits everyone involved (even if unpalatable).

It would be like a black cloud lifted if we can get it resolved and remove some horrible strain.

wildfish - will revisit about court orders again. 60%? We would gladly give her 100% of the equity (currently about 40k) just to not have to be beholden to that mortgage, honestly.

mumo/s - thankyou, will look into that Trusts of Land thing.

earlybird - yes current company. Entirely no idea what the package might include at this point. I don't think this particular company will offer necessary schooling - we rather assume as he will pay very little income tax that that is how we will fund it. We will certainly ensure there is a safe exit strategy as you advise and is already on my list when we begin to negotite relocation terms. Remortgaging would involve her agreeing to change/sign the mortgage - something up til now she has refused to do or negotiate over. With the threat of DP not being allowed to see the children hanging over us - despite court orders, we all know she could make this difficult.

The part I struggle with is she has 3 mouths to feed and her total income is funded mostly by us, plus she seems to be entitled to loads of extra government help - we end up with less (after losing half pretax), with 4 mouths to feed and entitled to no help at all. It has become quite a strain to such an extent that I am starting to resent the other children, and makes me feel like a the stereotypical wicked stepmother.

However, quite excited by DP's new job and opportunities/adventures this may bring! Thanks once again for the comments, feel like perhaps there is some hope to resolve.