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Advice Please re: CAFCASS and access

24 replies

sprogsndogs · 13/04/2010 20:33

I really hope someone here can help me.

I am currently in a battle with my ex over access to the children. In short, there was domestic violence in our relationship; all documented by police, photos etc. He is also an alcoholic and a court order for alcohol testing proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

CAFCASS are involved and recently conducted an 'interview' if you can call it that.

The reporter was over 30 mins late to our appointment and spent a whopping 45 minutes with me. She mentioned several times that she had an overwhelming case load and was pressed for time. She then spent 50 minutes with my children. She has interviewed the ex as well, and had promised to conclude our interview over the phone as we did not have a long enough interview first time round.

She rang today to say that she has filed her report with the court despite not concluding our interview. She also declined to interview other relevant people in the kids' lives who have seen the impact my ex's behaviour had on them. She filed her report today because she is away on holiday tomorrow.

I'm really cheesed off that she has rushed this thru and is now apparently recommending supervised visiton at a centre. I firmly belive that this is detrimental to my children. There has been limited contact with their father despite my initial efforts to get him to be involved with them. They are now happily adjusted and they do not ask for him or talk about him anymore and my oldest son who is 6 does not want to see him.

So my questions are:

  1. What grounds, if any, would I have for an appeal? I intend to arm myself with Ofted's damning report on CAFCASS as well as my own complaints but will that be enough to ask for an appeal?
  1. If the court does in fact grant the supervised access and I don't comply, what can happen?

Thanks for taking the time to read this ... please if you have any experience and can offer advice I'd very much appreciate it.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 13/04/2010 20:35

I don't know the answer to your question but whatever your point of view (and I appreciate it) supervised contact at a centre was always going to be the most likely.

It is very unlikely however much you complain for him to never see his father and for that to be endorsed by the court.

LaurieFairyCake · 13/04/2010 20:38

Was he violent or sexually abusive to your child?

if not, you need to get on board with this and prepare for your son to go. You will need to comply. This is not about you and your (awful) previous abuse but is about your child's relationship with his father.

Sorry

coldtits · 13/04/2010 20:38

the application to cafcass was never about seeing his children, it was about making you let him see his children. Maintaining contact will be too much bother and he'll drop it within two years, probably.

mamazon · 13/04/2010 20:38

You can request that your solicitor brings up your concerns to teh judge at court but in reality you have been given a quite typical Cafcass experience.

Domestic violence towards you is not an indication that he would be violent to your children. if you have any concerns that he would you need to raise them to the judge.

If he is awarded contact and you do not comply you will be in breach of a court order. your children could be made wards of court and you could face charges of contempt of court.

fifitot · 13/04/2010 20:40

You need to find a family lawyer to put your case but as above person says - courts will usually allow contact with the other parent to some degree.

OFSTED's report on CAFCAS won't help your appeal. The Judge will not be interested in this approach. Your grounds need to be very specific - you need proper legal guidance I'm afraid.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 13/04/2010 20:44

Right, realize that she is advising supervised contact. This means that your ex will not be alone with the children. Has he been violent to the children? The general view is that fathers have the right to see their children, and unless there are really really exceptional circumstances, then contact is almost always ordered.

The OFSTED report on CAFCASS really won't help you, unless you can show that the CAFCASS reporter was grossly negligent. The fact that she didn't have a lot of time is unfortunately the case with most CAFCASS reporters and while she could have been a bit more diplomatic, if she had more time, it would not have changed her assessment.

Most likely, contact will be for an hour initially, and then increase incrementally.

mamazon · 13/04/2010 20:45

ok, now that your questions have been answered i shall say this.

He WILL be awarded access. supervised centres are only ever a short term fix. they are designed to allow all parties to adjust to contact taking place sop that you can move forward to a more permanent solution.

My ex was abusive towards me in every singl;e way imaginable. IN themost horrific ways. my DS was often caught up in the middle of it all. he is autistic and was very much damaged by waht he witnessed.

I fought for more than 4 years to prevent contact.

the courts always want a child to have some form of contact with its father though.
it started off that he woudl see them supervised for an hour or so.
then it went to a ferw hours and now he has fortnightly overnight stays. It took 2 years to reach this stage but for the last few months we have been able to reach something that is almost amicable.

It is difficult for me at times but i can see now that it is the very best thing for my children.

I and everyone around me was certain that no good could come from him seeing teh children. but now, now i can see that its not the case.

I hope that you re able to work with those involved with your case and can help make this work for your childrens sake.

tartyhighheels · 13/04/2010 20:45

i am so sorry for you, we are in the same boat. You can have a look at my posts and see wht people have said to me but asking for a psychiatric assessment on the whole family is your only real option - if you feel your children are at risk from contact emtionally or whatever then you should not take them but please do get some back up and counselling for them.

Get a kick ass lawyer.

LaurieFairyCake · 13/04/2010 20:48

Thank you mamazon for posting that

Very brave of you to go through that.

mumblechum · 13/04/2010 20:50

It's likely that the court will order supervised contact at a contact centre.

This will however not be forever. It would normally be reviewed after six months or so and depending on how it's gone, the court could suspend any contact (if he doesn't show up or shoots himself in the foot in some way), extend the supervised contact for another six months or so, or allow limited unsupervised, usually by way of the dad taking the child for one of the two hours outside the contact centre, to a swing park or somewhere, then trying unsupervised.

If the Cafcass report is seriously flawed, then your solicitors should argue against it, ie get the Cafcass officer in court and cross examine her.

I have a case on at the moment where the Cafcass report is frankly appalling and we're contesting it & I'm pretty sure the judge will disregard it. Alternatively, there is a complaints procedure.

sprogsndogs · 13/04/2010 20:51

He was not violent towards the children, but he was never involved with them either. He was violent towards me whilst they were in the house, and once took a knife to me and threatened to kill me. He once threatend to break my neck and kill my dogs in front of the children as well.

I am concerned about his mental state, as he took an overdose of sleeping tablets to attempt suicide (too bad he didn't take enough of them!) and despite referrals to seek mental health he has done nothing to help himself. He is unstable and hostile, and frequently drunk. Even when he is sober he is not in a rational state of mind.

The only reason access was brought up was because I filed for a residence order out of fear that he would take the children from school and disappear to Scotland with them just to piss me off.

I really feel that CAFCASS has not taken enough time to properly assess the situation. The recommendation was made for supervised access without reading his medical records, where the evidence of his suicide is noted. He filed a statement at court denying the attempt - in reponse to my initial statement - but the medical reports prove he was lying.

What happened between us means nothing to me now, as it's over and I've moved on. But I know for sure that access will have a very negative impact on my kids and I want to protect them from that.

I am so worried.

OP posts:
babybarrister · 13/04/2010 20:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mumblechum · 13/04/2010 20:56

Well, if Cafcass have missed vital info when compiling their report, that has to be brought up & your solicitors should tell the court of your concerns and say that you're not happy with even contact centre visits until a full report has been prepared, psych assesments done etc.

Don't be fobbed off if your solicitors say you're being unreasonable. Change solicitors if necessary.

The court may not necessarily agree with you but you have to raise this stuff about suicide attempts etc. If the psych report says that he's ok now then you may change your mind, of course.

LaurieFairyCake · 13/04/2010 20:56

The supervised contact will not happen if he turns up drunk. If he is belligerent or violent to the supervisors he will be removed.

You don't have to be there.

If he is as you say then it really won't happen will it - if he doesn't turn up he will eventually lose contact too.

Do you really think he's going to be all sober and nicey-nicey and turn up for 6-12 months?

sprogsndogs · 13/04/2010 20:57

Cor sorry you guys are answering me so quick I can't keep up! lol

Thank you very much for sharing your views.

Sadly, it's not what I want to hear

I am willing to conceed to supervised access if he can prove over a period of more than 6 months that he is remaining sober and seeking counselling. If I ask for that have I got any chance of the court making that part of the package?

OP posts:
tartyhighheels · 13/04/2010 21:00

my cafcass officer turned up for a second time without reading the case file and using my old married name.... she is filin an interim report on access without reading this file or medical records - i am of course objecting to this - she hasn't even spoken to my children she met me and got back from holiday yesterday andfiles tomorrow!! what the fuck am i going to do if she recommends supervised contact????

try and get your kids help, my oldest is having help from the nspcc with a specialist person re. domestic abuse

LaurieFairyCake · 13/04/2010 21:03

I'm not surprised it's not what you want to hear.

Unfortunately you can't demand he change his behaviour or 'prove' how he parents to you - nor can you 'concede' to anything. You need to get out of that mindset.

Really, really sorry for you.

LaurieFairyCake · 13/04/2010 21:04

DD has counselling through the NSPCC - they are fantastic.

Definitely get some help if you think he is starting to suffer.

mamazon · 13/04/2010 21:05

then please do make sure you get your solicitor to bring your fears up in court.

Mine got the cafcass reports thrown out and they were no longer used in our case.
The court funded an independent social worker to file reports instead. she wasn't great but she was paid directly by the courts for each hour she spent on our case so i guess she took her time over things.

My case was described by both my solicitor and 2 separate barristers with a combined 73 years experience on family law, as being the most complex and distressing case they had worked on.

If your x actually wants to see his children then the quicker you get on board and help make it work the better it will be for you all.

And trust me when i say i was opposed to contact. I actually looked into emigration at one stage just to stop him being part of their lives! I knew that my children would suffer if he was able to have any input in their lives. I knew he was nothing but a negative effect on them.
It has taken time and effort but i can see now that it isn't the case.
he is far from the ideal father but my children love him and he is a valued part of their lives.

honestly, if i can do it, you can.

sprogsndogs · 13/04/2010 21:05

LFC, the ex doesn't 'do' sober and nicey nicey! lol lol

So let me get this straight ... if the court grants the supervised access, that normally takes place for more than 6 months? I don't think he's got the stamina for that.

He will manage to be sober for the actual visit but the amount he drinks on a daily basis has fried his brain. Add to that what I believe to be a serious mental problem and what you get is a very hostile, depressed person. He's got no interest at all in parenting the kids with me, he wants access because they are his, he views them as possessions. He blatantly stated to the CAFCASS reporter that he would not meet with me to discuss anything.

I loathe him, really. But if he was sober, rational and reasonable I wouldn't block access. With things as they stand I really do believe he will cause a lot of emotional damage to the kids. Supervised access doesn't mean a toss, he can still say things to the kids that will upset them and cause problems. Does the court not care about that at all?!

OP posts:
babybarrister · 13/04/2010 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

STIDW · 13/04/2010 21:38

The courts presumption is that when children live with one parent they (the children) have the right to see and know the other parent in all but the most exceptional cases. Children who are insecure about their parentage and heritage tend to grow up with low self-esteem leading to behavioural problems, emotional ill health, dysfunctional relationships in adulthood etc etc. Rather than opposing contact altogether it is often better to concentrate on securing safe contact.

The principles set by the Court of Appeal as law relating to DV and contact can be summarised thus:

i) the Court should consider the conduct of both parties towards each other and towards the child, the effect of the violence upon the child and on the residential parent, and the motivation for the parent seeking contact, ie is it a desire to promote the best interests of the child or a means by which to continue violence, intimidation or harassment of the resident parent;

ii) on an application for interim contact, when the allegations of domestic violence await adjudication the Court should give particular consideration to the likely risk of harm (physical or emotional) if contact were granted or refused (any risk of harm to the child must be minimised and the safety of the resident parent as well as the child should be secured before, during and after any such contact).

iii) There was not, and should not be a presumption that on proof of domestic violence the offending parent had to surmount a prima facie barrier of no contact. As a matter of principle, domestic violence of itself cannot constitute a bar to contact but is one factor in the difficult and delicate balancing exercise of discretion to be undertaken by the Court.

iv) In cases of proved domestic violence the Court has to weigh the seriousness of the domestic violence, the risks involved and the impact on the child against the positive factors. The ability of the offending parent to recognise his/her past conduct, to be aware of the need to change and to make genuine efforts to do so would be likely to be an important consideration when performing that balancing exercise.

v) The rights of the child must prevail.

There is usually little point complaining about CAFCASS. If there are errors of fact or law, the place to raise these is in the subsequent directions hearing (or final hearing as appropriate). A lawyer will handle this for you.

Evidence of incidents and/or the effects of DV on you and the children in the form of police reports, GP letters, school letters etc are in themselves not usually enough on their own to persuade a court that contact is not in a child's best interests. They can be used to argue for a finding of fact hearing and independent expert reports.

I'm not sure what it is you are wishing to appeal at this stage. It's not possible to appeal a court decision just because you do not agree with it. It needs to be shown that the judge has made an errors of fact or law, there are material facts which have come to light which weren't known at the time of the judgment or the ruling flies in the face of what would normally be expected.

Contact orders can ultimately be enforced with community service, imprisonment or changing residence so that children live with the other parent.

cestlavielife · 14/04/2010 14:40

you WILL likely end up with an order for supervised contact - your solicitor can make sure it is fully supervised and observed with reports written on each visit and filed wiht the court after .

tehre are various elvels of superviced contact and contact centres range from a hall with volunteers to ones with staff trained to observe and take notees whicha re field to court.

so yoo should request the fully supervised and observed contact with full reports on each visit - that way you can get some reassurance.

as others said - judge aint likely to order no contact in this situation.

in my case it has moved from contact centre in 2009 to a final order for supervised contact but intstructton from judge that this should relax gradually - so he does have them unsupervised for short times but no overnights yet.

but last week he assaulted my ds' carer (ds is disabled) so will see what happens now. ... but again - was violence towards another dault not to the children...

Dollytwat · 14/04/2010 18:14

Sprogsndogs I could have written your post almost. I am currently fighting for my ex to continue to only have supervised access, he wants it moved away from the contact centre.

Iknow that he's not interested in the children, he just wants to have his CSA deduction from his dole money reduced.

I'm in court next week, and they'll be asking for CAFCASS reports, so I might be back to ask you for some advice.

If it's any comfort, supervised contact is OK, my children prefer it - they see 'plastic daddy' who has to be nice. They know it's only for 2 hours a fortnight and that he can't shout at them. He was refused contact one weekend precisely because he had raised his voice and had to explain why.

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