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Legal matters

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Landlord won't give my deposit back

14 replies

sillyewe · 12/04/2010 08:12

This op is slightly different to the one in chat but I have a conversation there too.

DP and I rented a room from a landlord who also lived in the house (we shared the kitchen and everyone did their own cooking. Our room and the other rented-out room shared a bathroom). We payed a £550 deposit by bank transfer which was not put in a deposite protection scheme and we have no reciept for it. We asked for a contract when we first moved in but because we were desperate we couldn't wait for it before moving in. We lived there for 6 months and no contract was ever signed. We payed our rent by direct debit for this whole period. As the landlord is a property solicitor (which we knew from the beginning) we were never too worried as we assumed he was doing it by the book.
We ended up renting a field there for my dp's parent's pony as they lost their grazing. The pony moved in after we had lived there for 2 months and therefore had paid 2 months rent. We payed the rent to him for the field but as a seperate transaction on a different day of the month to the rent for the room. There was also no contract for this agreement.
3 weeks ago we moved out. The official inspection of the room to check we didn't damage it was on the 31st March, even though he had already "inspected" the room while we were at work before we moved out (without telling us he would be doing this). We moved out 3 weeks before the inspection but he wouldn't do it earlier. We have now been presented with a letter explaining the following:
He has found 2 pin holes and a nail hole in the room. We asked about putting in the nail right at the beginning and were told we couldn't put the nail in until we had lived there for a couple of months, but that we could use pins instead. He is now denying saying this, and withholding the deposit until the holes have been filled in and the room repainted. The other people renting a room there were told the same thing concerning pins.
He has also billed us for some things in the field. Some of the fence was broken before the pony moved in, which he knew and warned us about, which we now have to pay for. He is also claiming that our pony broke some rails and tried to eat some, but we never saw any more broken or any chewed rails. The fencing in maybe 8-10 year old wood and in poor condition and the replacement he is billing us for is brand new and the labour to fit it. His horse is now living on the other side of the fence and has chewed lots of rails in his field and the door of his stable so we think this damage was done by his horse. It also looks like it was chewed from the other direction to our field (although this is clearly not an exact science).
There was also a broken old stable in the field (which he advised us not to use as it was not safe) which the pony broke some planks in the wall of. We have been billed for repairing the whole stable again with new materials. We have also been billed to put a new gate on the field even though the old gate was fine and undamaged by the pony, and for the damage to some branbles at the bottom of the field which he is billing us to because the pony trampled through (which he did) and chewed (which he didn't). The bill for the brambles is to make it into stock proof fencing with posts and rails - it was not a boundary when we moved our pony out there - just a messy bit at the bottom of the field, and it clearly wasn't stock proof either!
This bill for the field and the holes in the house comes to £540, so the landlord has said he will not be repaying the deposit and will give us the £10 in cash.
We know he said that we could make the holes, he also said the same thing to the other couple renting there who also do not have contracts with him. We do not think that we should be paying for those things in the field. Although we don't have a contract for either agreement, we paid rent on different days and moved in on different days so we think that the deposit we paid for the room should not be anything to do with the field.
Is there anything we can do to get the rent back? The letter he has sent has an itemised bill for all the deductions he will be making from the deposit, with the offer to pay the remaining £10 in cash. Is this enough "evidence" along with the bank transfer to prove we paid a deposit?
Who should pay for reasonable wear and tear (e.g. the field gate which worked fine and was not damaged, but was made of old wood and didn't look shiney and new)?
Is there a law I could look up which explains when it is ok to use the deposit from one (verbal) contract in relation to a different(again verbal) contract?

OP posts:
barefootinthepark · 12/04/2010 08:19

You MUST go to CAB. Please take legal advice. I know that if there is a contract it is pretty clear cut and on your side. Without a contract I am not sure -- but I think again he is in the wrong for not offering you a contract.

Do NOT be intimidated by the fact that he is a property lawyer. He is counting on you to be intimidated (when really he cannot afford, professionally, to lose such a case).

sillyewe · 12/04/2010 08:22

He never offered a contract but we did ask for one. He never got round to giving it to us, but we believed this was just genuine diorganisation (which was very easy to believe) and not some kind of plot! He is an experienced landlord of both rooms and fields and a professional as so the just though he would be doing it right. This was my first time renting and I've learned my lesson now

OP posts:
Bucharest · 12/04/2010 08:29

Take legal advice, and in the meantime, put the frighteners on him, by asking him to have ready his income declarations etc proving that he is declaring his rentals (which if he's not doing contracts etc, I bet he's not)

If he wants to be arsey over a pinhole, then give him his fight. He has far more to lose than £500 by the sounds of it.

Sassa · 12/04/2010 08:39

Go to the tenants association and ask them to take over. It should be free of charge for you. The fine for him is three times your deposit which I expect he knows as a property lawyer!

If there is no contract is is assumed to be an AST.

Best regards

sillyewe · 12/04/2010 08:55

Bucharest, as we never signed anything for him moving in or out we think that he probably isn't declairing this to the council as he has no prooof that we don't still live there. He didn't have any smoke detecters, co2 detecters or fire alarms installed anywhere in the house (so we asked to put temporary ones in because we had a newborn pfb) which apparently implies that he isn't following their rules even if he has informed them.
Sassa, what is the tenants association? I just googled it and found nothing. I live in Wales, does it exist here? What is an AST?
TRhank you.

OP posts:
sillyewe · 12/04/2010 09:04

1 more question: can the landlord charge us for brand new wood to replace wood which was very old and in poor condition? This wood was 5 - 10 years old, broken and tied up with string, damaged by the weather as it was not paited and generally not really very good. He claims our pony ate it, which he didn't, but even if he had would we have to pay for old wood or new wood? I'm guessing it would be difficult to find wood for sale in such poor condition - if we couldn't find somewhere selling it would we then have to pay for new wood to fix the fencing, or would we have to pay the value of old wood and he would have to top up to the value of the actual price of wood?

OP posts:
barefootinthepark · 12/04/2010 09:04

He's in big trouble by the sound of it. Take it further.

Snuppeline · 12/04/2010 09:17

If he is a solicitor he has a professional body governing him. He didn't get contracts signed from you but has sent you a letter which proves that you did live there. Basically as far as I can understand that is against professional judgement and he can be disciplined by his professional body. You shoudl take your case to the citizens advice bureau and ask them what council can do. Like I said, if he's a solicitor then higher standards would be expected than those he has shown in terms of not exchanging contracts. You may never get your deposit back but without a contract how can he charge you for anything? You can deny having any arrangement with him, just as he is denying having agree things verbally with him. Teach the crep a lesson!

prh47bridge · 12/04/2010 10:47

Contrary to Sassa's advice, this is NOT an assured shorthold tenancy as the landlord is resident in the same property. Amongst other things, this means he is not required to put your deposit in a protection scheme.

Take advice from CAB and/or a solicitor.

JustAnotherManicMummy · 12/04/2010 10:58

Give Shelter a ring. You have records of the transactions because they were made by direct debit and bank transfer.

(btw was the rent really taken by DD or was it actually a standing order? If it was a DD then he should have a business account set up somewhere which could be useful in future negotiations)

I wouldn't start making threats. I'd go back and reiterate the agreement you had regarding pin holes and that the field is completely separate to your room rental.

You could always take him to small claims court for not very much money - but see what Shelter say.

sillyewe · 12/04/2010 11:16

If we went to a solicitor who knew him, would they have to tell us they knew him? If they did would they still be bound not to tell him anything we had said or that they had told us - something like a doctor's confidentiality? Is it likely that they would know each other (is there a regional solicitors club?!)?

OP posts:
JustAnotherManicMummy · 12/04/2010 11:28

You don't need a solicitor yet. A solicitor who will charge you - contact CAB or Shelter in the first instance.

If you did later need a solicitor they would be bound by client confidentiality and so could not discuss it with anyone else without your consent.

Sillyewe · 13/04/2010 13:34

Thank you for the help. We've spoken to the CAB and they were fantastic.
They said we should write a letter explaining that the room is now in order and we are giving him 14 days to give the deposit back. The landlord sent us a further letter saying that as the room had been used as storage prior to us renting it as a double room, we would have to pay for the help he hired to put all the stuff back in - my dad and dp moved it to start with. If we had paid this it would actually leave us in debt to him beyond the deposit so we would owe him a further £25. As we actually rented a double room, the CAB we don't have to pay to relocate all the things which were being stored in there before.
The CAB also said that we don't have to pay for anything for the field at all as we had no contract / agreement about replacing / fixing anything, we paid no deposit and the field rent was fairly expensive, therefore we were reasonable to assume that the repair and upkeep of the field would be the landowners responsibility and paid for from the rent we paid for the field. That's a major stress removed now. I'm just drafting the letter today to post this evening, and feeling pretty cheerful for the first time since we moved in to the new house.
Thanks again everyone

OP posts:
Bucharest · 14/04/2010 08:07

Good for you! What an arsewipe!

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