Any contract lawyers out there? School fees issue.

[ForgottenallthelawIeverknew]

A quick question about private school terms and conditions...

It is pretty common for private schools' terms to say that notice that a place will not be taken up must be given by a particular date or a full term's fees will be payable.

In our case, we will not find out whether DD has got into a local state school until the day after the notice deadline for the private school. The private school's cut- off date is later this month, so a long time before the start of the school year. I know that they have a waiting list for places and so there is a fair chance that if we withdrew soonish after that date the place would still be filled.

Am I right in thinking that if our place were filled by someone else in time for the start of the academic year, that clause would be unfair - i.e. a penalty and therefore unenforceable? I can't see how a full term's fees would be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. They already have a large deposit, btw, so unless they are using gold plated type-writers I believe their administrative expenses are covered!

Thanks

If that's what you have signed then you have agreed to this, it's not an unfair contract term as it's standard practice.

You are able to withdraw notice at any time, maybe it's in your best interest to give notice a week before you find out and withdraw the notice if it all goes pear shaped. You normally have to give a terms notice so to not take your child back in September you need to tell them on the very first day of term at the latest.

I know someone who used to give a term's notice every term, but never used it. Maybe informally find out if this would be ok?

Belle- standard terms can be unfair, that's surely why we have the Unfair Contract Terms Act?

The unfair contract terms act is for companies that really take the piss (didn't work for banks and their charges).

Your best bet is to give notice and to withdraw it when you find out.

Just Googling and love the Mill Hill school terms - they claim that betwee 1-5 years' fees is a genuine pre-estimate of loss but state that they will limit it to a term! They clearly don't have much faith in their ability to fill a place!!

You are made aware of the terms and conditions when you send your child there. Their worst case scenario is that they are unable to fill the place (recession etc). A terms notice is fair IMO, you have to give notice to staff/employer. If you give them a terms notice then withdraw it then there's no financial penalty so I really don't get why this is a big deal.

What seems unfair is the time frame, certainly round here the Indi school deadline for responses was AFTER the state places were handed out.

you agreed to the terms
they will most likely pursue you for the outstanding monies

If I give them a term's notice they will give the place to the next child on the list so then we would not be able to withdraw notice.

We won't find out until after we have become liable for the term's fees whether we have a place at a local state school.

It's not a massive deal, but it is over £2k in addition to the deposit. I recall endless debates over penalty clauses in commercial contracts in the dim and distant past. As it was an issue in commercial contracts it must surely have come up in connection with consumer contracts. I wondered whether this practice has ever been challenged or analysed by the OFT.

It's unsettling or a child to move them about, this is why they time things differently. I expect they also don't wish to loose families as this is how they pay the staff. They are businesses aswell

If it's only a day, I would call them and ask if you can let them know 1 day later.

I don't think the OFT have investigated it, it's been standard practice for many years. I imagine the last thing schools want is families removing their children at the drop of a hat, a terms notice to me is at the very start of a term if a child is not to be there at the next term, you have a couple of weeks grace which is more then some.

Indeed- actually I am reminded every time they write to us that they are a business as every single letter mentions money!

They do have a big waiting list so I doubt our withdrawal would make any difference to them, other than enriching them. With state places being announced so late this year I suspect our local private schools are in for one heck of a windfall. At least someone's making money...

I can completely understand schools wanting a term's notice for withdrawing a child who is already at the school. I mean, if someone leaves at a funny age it might well take a term to fill their place. But reception places seem to be a different case, especially when people are clamouring for them.

Think I might give them a ring and ask, although since they mention the deadline in every communication I rather suspect they will dig their heels in!

Have they changed the date this year to coencide (sp?) with the release of the state school places?

No - I think it is always the first Friday of the Summer term. It's just that the council is really really late this year.

Ah, you can't really moan at the school then. It's not really an unfair contract term, they are just asking for notice. It may be classed as unfair if they changed the dates so you had to give a terms notice before the state school dates were released though as there's not alot of choice here.

I know lots of people that have had to pay the terms fees notice period, one even went to court over it and then found the state school they took a place up in was crap and had to go to the only other private school in the area which wasn't much better because the first prep wouldn't have them.
You are paying to keep your options open, the school has to plan around it's numbers and is charging you on the basis that they will not fill your place, worse case scenario I guess.
We will have all this next year as DD1 won't find out if she passed the 11+ until after the private schools notice period expires, but I think it's worth paying £2,500 to not be left with no choice as to where she goes.

No, it's not their fault at all. It does make me wonder how many lots of £3250 (or whatever the fee is) they'll be getting in addition to filling all of their places. Should buy a book or two.

The registration fees annoy me. £50 for what exactly?? So ds can sit an exam so I can pay money to send him there? Is it normally refunded if he's not offered a place?

you might be surprised at how quickly their waiting list evaporates come September

No, registration fees are never refunded.
At least it's only £50, though. Most people can afford to drop that much, and many do it several times over.

I guess £50 could be said to represent admin costs and the cost of exam room etc, but the deposit (£1000!) made me gulp a bit!

Milly - if I refuse to pay that is one of my nightmare scenarios. State school turns out to be shite and us blacklisted because of my stubborness and obsession with the law on penalty clauses...

The head at ds's first private school did this, I had to wait for the whole of the summer not knowing if he had a place there as she had told me there was only a couple of spaces and a foreign family had applied aswell. When he started there was more then enough spaces

I know some of the kids on the waiting list. Unfortunately some of them live nearer the good state school than we do so they'll get in there before us.

I almost wish I had feigned religion.

You get the deposit back though. Ds's new school deposit is £800 which is deducted from the first terms fees, his last school deposit was the same amount but refunded when the boys left. Imagine the interest on this though, 7 years worth times 250.