Separation advice .... can anyone help

[changeychangey]

Have posted elsewhere about this but looking for legal input - worried people I know are going to be complicit in this ....

Have namechanged. Am worried about a friend who is NOT listening to anything people say and wondered if we are all wrong and she is right.

She's planning on leaving her partner tomorrow. P doesn't know, but a few of us do. She says herself there is no abuse, emotional or physical, they have been fighting a lot since their ds was born 8 months ago, but just "normal" arguments (sounds a lot less than me and dh, but we are quite firey people iyswim).

She discovered by accident that her P had a one night stand before she got pregnant but has never talked it over with him, asked him about it, and it was now 18 months ago.

Tomorrow morning she is planning, as soon as he has gone to work, to strip everything out of their house, furniture, appliances, pictures, everything and take it to a "secret location" (which I expect is her mother's house, but she hasn't said). Apparantly counselling, talking to a lawyer, talking it over in an adult fashion, seperating amicably is not possible as she "can't cope" with seeing him upset.

Now, I understand that it is over - friend has decided that.

What I would like to know is :

1. Wouldn't she be better doing it in less of a "moonlight flit" type of way?
2. Is she doing anything illegal by taking all of their stuff with her? She plans that he will pretty much come home to no curtains/carpets as she intends "taking him to the cleaners".
3. My dh is friends with her P. I haven't even mentioned it to him! I feel m loyalties are very divided!!
4. She says that she will take him for "everything" via the CSA but that her P will "never" see the baby again. This can't be right?

SHe has always been quite a self centred person and can be spiteful/vindictive and I pulled her up on this once, resulting in her not speaking to me for a couple of years.

I know and like her P and feel very sorry for him - he is also a friend.

What would you do - I feel like I am going to chuck up, knowing this is happening!!

I'm assuming they aren't married.

Doing a moonlight flit and stripping the house will not do her any favours. Does she really want to be depicted as unstable when her partner goes to the courts and askes them to give him residence?

If she takes anything that is clearly his, that is theft and he could go to the police. Whether the police would want to get involved is another matter but they might. She is ok taking stuff that is clearly hers. Shared possessions should be split. That includes their house if it is in joint names. However, if the house is in his name she has no right to any share of it. If she takes all their joint possessions he can go to the courts and make her pay him a fair share of the value.

She won't take him for everything via the CSA whatever she thinks. Under current rules she will get 15% of his income after tax, NI and pension contributions are deducted. No matter how much she rants and raves at them they won't take a penny more. And if he is uncooperative she may have to wait years before they collect anything. I'd probably be uncooperative with the CSA if my wife left me like that!

As for her partner never seeing the baby again, he can go to court and get a contact order. If she breaches that she may have to pay compensation to her partner, she may be ordered to undertake community service, she may find that CAFCASS are brought in to make sure contact happens and she may be forced to attend counselling or anger management or therapy. If she still continues to defy the contact order she may find that the terms of the order are changed, probably in a way she won't like. She may even find that she loses residence or gets sent to prison. If she does lose residence, of course, he would be able to apply for the CSA to collect child maintenance from her.

If her partner is named on the child's birth certificate he has parental responsibility. That means she would be committing a criminal offence if she tries to escape all this by taking her child out of the country. It also means he has the legal right to be consulted on certain aspects of the child's upbringing and can apply for court orders to resolve disagreements.

So, in the worst case, she ends up in prison for theft and/or breach of the contact order and/or taking the child out of the country, she loses her baby to her partner and only gets limited contact, she has to pay him child maintenance, she has to return his goods and pay him a fair share of the shared goods she has taken... Not what she wants at all.

Bluntly, she should not go through with her plan. If she wants to leave her partner she should take herself, her baby and any possessions that are clearly hers. Then she should talk to him about a fair split of their shared assets or, if she can't discuss it with him, go to a solicitor.

It seems really odd that she "can't cope" with seeing him upset and yet she wants to be this vindictive.

What would I do in this situation? I'd ring him as soon as he got to work and tell him what his partner is planning. Talking to her clearly isn't going to achieve anything from what you say. Telling him will allow him to protect his interests. It is also, in the short term at least, the best way of protecting her interests as hopefully he will be able to stop her from stripping the house.

Sorry - to correct myself slightly as there is a child involved she may have some rights to a share of the family home even if it isn't in joint names. I forgot about the child when I was typing that bit. If she was doing it properly, she and her partner should try to agree where the children live and what was going to happen to the family home and other assets. If they cannot agree, they can still go to the courts.

1. Wouldn't she be better doing it in less of a "moonlight flit" type of way?

If she must leave and doesn't want to 'invite' him to leave she may leave with her things only and tell him why she is going. Take whatever she needs for the child and anything of sentimental value. Also, tell him where she is going so that he may contact her to talk.

2. Is she doing anything illegal by taking all of their stuff with her? She plans that he will pretty much come home to no curtains/carpets as she intends "taking him to the cleaners".

Not a good idea to take everything if not a logistical nightmare. Also, very inflammatory! Illegal? depends on who paid for what and whether they are married.

3. My dh is friends with her P. I haven't even mentioned it to him! I feel m loyalties are very divided!!

Private matter for you but could you ace it if they both said 'what, you knew and you said nothing?"

4. She says that she will take him for "everything" via the CSA but that her P will "never" see the baby again. This can't be right?

CSA - not in her control
Contact - court will be the judge of that

Best regards!