Advice needed pls re court order for maintenance which is being ignored

[Advicerequiredpls]

Hello

Am hoping someone could steer me in the correct direction if possible please.

I have a court order for child maintenance as part of my divorce. It was issued 17th Feb 2009. It says exH needs to pay maintenance to dd of £300 a month.

ExH was made redundant 12 months ago and has paid no maintenance at all for 9 months. He has told me that he hasn't worked at all for those 9 months. I found out today that he has a job (through a careless comment of a friend of his re work on his wall on fb!). I don't know how long for though.

I rang the csa, they said they can't backdate child support but can only do it from the day I start the claim. They did advise though that as he is working I could go to the magistrates court and 'swear the arrears' I think she said, and they might be awarded because of the court order.

She said she wasn't allowed to tell me how much of the 9 months he'd been working but hinted strongly that it was quite a lot.

So any advice would be very helpful pls re if this is true wrt the court order and how I do it. I can't afford to see my solicitor as finding it pretty hard to cope on my part time wage as it is without the maintenance.

Thank you

Maintenance arrears can be enforced like any other debt. The easiest way to enforce maintenance orders yourself is to register the order with the court and ask the court to enforce the order. See guidance leaflet EX327 and the affidavit EX550 available to download from the HM Courts Service website.

You can approach CAB for assistance. Court officials can help you with the forms and check they are filled in correctly but they cannot say anything which maybe construed as legal advice.

Thank you very much, really appreciate it.

Go to the magistrates court - they will deal with it for you! I am going through this at the moment and the staff at the magistrates court have been excellent. I tried going down the above route but was advised to close that applicationa nd let the magistrates court deal with it and it is so much easier. They ahve written to XH and basically told him to pay up or attend court again - if he fails to attend (likely) he can be arrested!

Hello

I'm back again!

I've followed all the advice and the court documents arrived today, however they ask me to fill in the amount of arrears outstanding and i don't know how to because our court order reads:

"from the date of this order the hsband shall make payments to the wife for the benefit of the child. The payments shall be 50% of the sum of nursery and/or school fees including all reasonable extras incurred by dd at dd's school. ...'

it says 'this order is made pursuant to the CSA 1991 section 87 as amended.'

My questions are:

what are reasonable extras do you think? uniform? school lunches? before and after school care? school shoes? ballet lessons?

The maintenance was supposed to be 50% of nursery/school AND 15% of his net salary but i can't see that mentioned anywhere, therefore i'm assuming the solicitor just made a mistake and left it out and therefore i can't claim? or is that what the 'pursuant to the csa' bit above means ie PLUS the 15%?

Sorry for all the questions but exh is a solicitor and has done everything possible to screw our daughter out me out of maintenance since he left. Bearing in mind i supported him all the time he was training this is slightly annoying!!

Thanks again for any/all advice it really is very appreciated.

can you go to magistrates and ask for advice or cab, they pretty good?

I would say claim for everything you have paid to ot with school, then it will be down to the court to decide what is 'reasonable' or not.

I'm puzzled by the reference to CSA 1991 Section 87. The Child Support Act 1991 only had 58 sections. New Zealand had a CSA that year which had a section 87 but that section is about amending assessments so doesn't seem appropriate.

Assuming you are in the UK, if there is no mention of 15% of his salary you aren't entitled to it I'm afraid, even if it is what you thought you had agreed. Was there anything about spousal maintenance in the order? I am surprised the courts sanctioned a deal where the only payments were for nursery/school fees.

"Reasonable extras" is nice and vague so it would be for the courts to decide if necessary. I think uniform, shoes and lunches would count. I'm not so sure about before and after school care or ballet lessons as you quote the order saying these extras must be incurred "at the school". Before and after school clubs are normally separate from the school even if they operate on school premises whilst ballet lessons sound like an out of school activity.

I think you should put down whatever you think is reasonable for extras. If he disputes it, the court will decide but be aware that you may have to produce evidence that you have actually spent this money.

thanks everyone,

am in the uk

no mention of the 15% even though that was agreed by exh and i and the solicitor was informed, i'm assuming she omitted by mistake then, very irritating.

spousal maintenance is £1 per annum. Solicitor told me that this was going in so that if I was ever made redundant i had the option of going back and claiming support if that makes sense.

have checked the section number and it definitely states section 87 so this is very strange. Think i will email my solicitor who submitted this and ask that question plus the 'where the hell is the 15% bit!!'

exh has told me he is currently 'taking advice' re the arrears. This is really worrying me, I don't know what hes up to or why he needs advice? I'm assuming hes just trying to get away with paying as little as possible.

Also, if the 15% was in there, as i didn't know he was working and have no idea of his wages how would i work that out?

thanks again, i appreciate you all giving your time

bump for evening crowd

"As i didn't know he was working and have no idea of his wages how would i work that out?"

That's why basing maintenance on his wages is odd. I suspect the expectation was that you would start a claim via the CSA - for one child maintenance would normally be 15% of the absent parent's net income, although that would be reduced if the child spends one or more days per week at the absent parent's home.

Sadly, if that was the intention, that money is gone. As the CSA have already told you, they cannot backdate a claim for maintenance.

I had a brainstorm this morning.

The reference in your order should be to section 8.7 of the Child Support Act, not section 87. I really should have realised that earlier - sorry.

Section 8.7 allows the court to make an order for maintenance related to the child's attendance at a school IN ADDITION to using the CSA to collect maintenance. I am therefore 99% certain that the intention was for you to go to the CSA as soon as the order was made in order to get them to collect maintenance. That would have been 15% of your ex husband's salary.

Thank you, i'm constantly amazed at the people on mumsnet who give their time so freely to help others, it really restores my faith in humanity after the way exh has behaved.

i've written to my solicitor to ask where my 15% clause is and asking abot the section 87 bit so will wait to see what she responds, she certainly never told me to go to the csa and the csa won't get involved unless the order is 12 months old they told me so i coldnt have gone to them i don't think. what a mess. argh.

sorry just realised you'd said thst under section 8.7 you CAN get the csa involved straight away. Why on earth didn't she tell me??

You are very welcome.

The information you've had from the CSA isn't quite correct. If, as I believe, your order was under section 8.7 it allows the CSA to get involved immediately as that is additional to any maintenance they collect. However, if it had been a full maintenance order the CSA would not have been able to get involved for 12 months. I suspect they don't come across this situation very often which would account for the poor advice (although I don't have much time for the CSA - they are one of the most incompetent organisations I have ever encountered).

If your solicitor did not advise you that you needed to go to the CSA you may be able to claim against her for negligence. However, if your ex has been paying in full (50% of school fees plus 15% of income) until recently it may not be worth it. Your solicitor will have a complaints process. You may want to consider using that if you aren't happy with the answers you get.

Hello, is me again just under a different name.

I have now spoken to the solicitor and yes that was her intention - that I go straight to CSA. She may have said so originally, I certainly have no recollection of it but I was so distressed at the time she may have done.

She is now saying she doesn't think I need to go through the magistrates court that because it isnt a maintenance order but an order for school fees I should refer back to county court. She said she'd go away and look up and come back to me. She hasn't yet soi if you can shed any light much appreciated!

Also exh has said that the money he gave me when he was made redundant (which was 3 months x 15% of salry plus 3 x£100 which he owed me for the divorce proceedings plus 3 x 1/12 of the fees for that school year (eg up to June 2009) was actually all school fees for THIS year 2010 and therefore there is no maintenance outstanding.

This is getting more and more complicated, shall I just give up and right the money off? I really really can't afford to...

Thanks in advance.

A lot of this is down to whether you agree his figures (which I don't think you do) and trust him to make the correct payments to you. There is also the question of whether he has enough money to pay. There isn't much point in chasing the debt if the end result is that you don't get anything off him.

As you think he may have a job he hasn't told you about, you should open a case with the CSA if you haven't already done so. They will make sure he continues to pay 15% of salary if he has a job. If he is on contribution based Jobseeker's Allowance they would still get him to pay £5 per week. However, if he is obstructive you may have to wait a long time to get your money.

I think your solicitor is probably right that you need to go back to the county court if you want to get the order enforced but she is better placed to advise. It sounds like the argument there will be over whether he has paid the fees for this year already, so you will need to have a schedule of all his payments to date and what they were for.

I would prepare the schedule and show it to your exh for his comments. That may allow you to sort out the school fees side of it without having to go back to court.

thank you, what i have done so far is file with the csa, he definitely has a job albeit a temporary one i think. i have written off the 15% of wages earnt during the 9 month period as csa don't do back claims.

i sent exh my figures yesterday and he 'fundamentally disagrees' ooo what a surprise. The full amount he owes (not including the 15% just the fees) is £3k. I have said I'll accept £1.5k to avoid us both having to expend money going to court.

Will let you know what happens. If he doesn't go for the deal I'll go back to county court.

Thanks again. I've now got a girl crush on you because you're so nice :D don't tell Bit of Fun though

"Reasonable extras" is indeed rather vague and open to interpretation.

I think the reference to s87 is a typo and there shouldn't be a 7 on the end. s8 CSA 1991 as amended is about when the court has jurisdiction and gives the authority to include maintenance agreed in a consent order. After a year and a day either party may then apply to the CSA and the court order will cease to have effect.

Any amount can be agreed, it doesn't have to be CSA rates and in fact it is less problematic if the terms of an order are for a flat amount.

Sorry, ignore my last post. Somehow I missed the posts after 22 March.

Don't worry - I definitely won't say anything to Bit of Fun

Argh I'm back again. My exh has just said that the court order can't be enforced because its over a year old. He paid until June 09, I thought it could be enforced up to when the ARREARS were a year old?? EG the court order was dated Feb 09 I think but he didnt stop paying till June 09.

PRH - She does get so jealous

Nice try but, unless the court order specifically says that it is only for one year, your exh is wrong.

I think his confusion arises because child maintenance can be referred to the CSA one year after a consent, at which point the CSA's assessment replaces the consent order. If neither party refers it, the consent order remains in place.

In your case the order is for maintenance in addition to any sums collected through the CSA. If the order has expired, I would hope your solicitor would have mentioned that when you saw her.

The court order is effective and arrears can be enforced until an application is made to the CSA and the order ceases to have effect.

Applications for arrears enforcement should be made within a year of the breach of the order. After a year it's still possible to enforce arrears but you need leave from the court to apply first.

Thank you you two.

No, the court order doesn't state its for a year. God he's evil.

Just to clarify - I HAVE gone to the CSA now re the 15% of income.

The arrears re the school fees aren't a year old yet and I'm assuming this order WON'T be nul and voided by the fact that I have now gone to the CSA because it is in addition (that section 8.7 or whatever it was thingy)

Sorry, i'm sure ive asked that question a hundred times but want to make absolutely sure else i'll very quickly end my csa claim!!